Germany Warns China Olympics at Risk (Update: France Considering Boycott)

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
Strangely the paramilitary "Beijing Olympic Games Sacred Flame Protection Unit" is missing in this incident or do i fail to see the blue tracksuits on any of the pictures related to that incident ? Where are they ?

They were there, the picture cut them out of it. They never left its sight, it would be very suspicious, the convoy was stopped and the man tried again to steal the flag. The same man was arrested in London. As the article I posted said, there was a "human wave" of attackers and one got through. It was not set-up as you seem to suggest this guy has a history of action like this





There is quite a detailed description about him online now because of his antics. US citizen and known activist
www.zonaeuropa.com...




[edit on 13-4-2008 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
That's great for the Japanese. I wish the rest of the world was capable of such actions...but we bow to whatever the Chinese say because they own our debt and essentially our dollar. Nice.

More like arrogance from the Japanese. Japanese policies are becoming much more assertive since their humiliation at only been able to offer money to the Iraqi. By letting the Chinese in to Japan is a disgrace because it suggest that the Japanese people are incompetent to handle security which is what you westerners would call "loss of face". Even if their was no possibility of rioters the Japanese would not allow Chinese guards into their country to protect the torch

A Free-Tibet protesters. Very classy

Frankly China deserves whatever embarrassment it suffers because of this.
Just like my government would deserve it if these were protests about Iraq.

The Chinese leadership needs to realize that iron fisted policies aren't going to work, and in fact are now the major threat to China's continued stability and prosperity.

Oppression fuels rebellion.
The PRC is sowing the seeds of it's own destruction from within.

Then again I have come to expect utter folly from my own leaders here in the US, I guess I shouldn't expect any better from China's

reply to post by xmotex


You miss the point, these violent & chaotic protests in the West have only backfired. And again, these protests are only limited to the West. The general consensus in the World, non-Western world feel and think differently.

You will see the same situation again maybe in New Delhi and/or Canberra, that's it, you will practically not notice any reports from the Western media anymore, because it is not so sensational to report thousands of cheering Kazahkstans, Turks, Russians, Argentinas, Africans, Muslims in the Middle East, Pakistanis, Thais, Malaysians, Indonesians, Australians, Japanese, South AND North Koreans and Vietnamese. Guess China have more friends than we thought

I for one am starting to be glad that these protests and biases in the West opened and awakened the eyes of billions of people, if they are not already aware of the hypocricy and double-standards of the Western media and politicians. Hopefully more Westerners see this as well and understand that the world is bigger than only the Western world. And that most of the rest of the world hold a different variety of norms and values.




[edit on 13/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

Forty Chinese students have taken to the streets of a Kent city to protest against the "demonising" of China by the international community.

The students, from the University of Kent, demonstrated in Canterbury where a peace vigil is being held to support Tibet, which is under Chinese rule.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I was there at the protest before the pro-Chinese member say it is MSM bias. We was all conducting prayers for the Dalai Lama during a peacefully protest, but a rude minority of pro-Chinese students felt it was necessary to inform us we are apart of a CIA operation and our vigil was paid by the US embassy.

The population of Canterbury were not impressed by their childish and immature attacks during a prayer session

reply to post by infinite


China has demonized itself by supporting the Sudanese government's genocide against its civilian population for oil, as well as its treatment of Tibetan civilians for, guess what, oil.

No amount of propaganda will change the facts.

Originally posted by infinite
but a rude minority of pro-Chinese students felt it was necessary to inform us we are apart of a CIA operation and our vigil was paid by the US embassy.

Those same people who thought it was "rude" were probably throwing themselves at the torch bears. I thought it was quite rude for them to show up and ASSAULT the torch bearers . You get what you sow.





Strange how sympathy works.

If it were Muslims attacking the torch in protest of the US invasion, I doubt the same people will be giving them sympathy

reply to post by infinite



Ironically here you are complaining about a few childish acts of some pro-Chinese protesters, and where are the condemning of violent acts by pro-Dalai Lama protesters? These kinds of hypocricy is EXACTLY why you will get comments from a Chinese guy cheering these Chinese protesters. And exactly why more and more ordinary Chinese people are distancing themselves from "westerners".

Interesting enough the BBC article did not interviewed the Chinese protesters, or are you claiming that all of them were not in the position to give an opinion? Or the BBC reporter feels the answers or comments of the Chinese protesters are not in line with his/her viewpoints? Talking about bias and demonizing. Again, this is another example of why anger is growing among the Chinese people in the world about the Western MSM.

If the population of Canterbury is really not impressed, they have every reasons to do. So imagine this same "unimpressed" feeling in a bigger scale and over 1,350,000,000 Chinese people see the violent acts of pro-Tibet supporters in London, Paris and San Fransisco. Try for on split second to put you in place in these Chinese people.

Let me say it again, when the West is mourning and being fed with anti-China propaganda, the people in Tanzania celebrated a peaceful torch relay

You won't see the headlines in your news papers or being covered on primetime TV. BBC is too busy reporting "childish acts of Chinese protesters somewhere middle of the United Kingdom."

edition.cnn.com...

DAR ES SALAAM, Tanzania (AP) -- About 1,000 people cheered and marched with a team of 80 athletes and a Cabinet minister participating in the Tanzania leg of the Olympic torch run Sunday.

As it should be, people cheering an event that bring the Olympic spirits in town.

Major demonstrations have followed the torch's relay around the world on the way to Beijing for the summer Olympic Games. Thousands of protesters angry at China's human rights record have demonstrated.

This is again interesting typical Western style of reporting. The reporter definitely forgot to say these protests mostly happened in the West and not in Kazahkstan, Turkey, Russia, Argentina.

By the way, the torch already arrived in Oman, did you know that?

Note: As I still promised myself not to post any Chinese sourced links about the torch relay, I presume I will have more and more difficulties to find a report in the coming stations.

[edit on 13/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Spoken like a true nationalist

I'm hardly "anti-Chinese", I am usually among the first around here to condemn all the Cold War relic "China is the enemy" nonsense.

But China may be opening up, but it is in many ways still a repressive society, and as China's people get wealthier and more confident, they are going to demand more freedom.

What is happening in Tibet is only part of a larger problem, and I think is a harbinger of things to come. I expect it to be a painful process, but I also expect to see a China emerge that is far more democratic than it is today.

reply to post by xmotex


Xmotx, if you have the time you could read my other posts in this thread and other threads. China is not a perfect system, we are in the progress of turning from a extremely poor developing country into a less developing country. We face huge problems in this process. Some parts are even already quite well developed, but don't be misled by a handful of developed advanced metropoles on the coast provinces, those are more the exceptions than the rule. We have over 1,350,000,000 people, and since I don't believe statistics I bet even much more, these are double the size of USA and Europe combined. You can not develop such a huge country in one day or with violent terrorism. The policy of opening up the country in a gradual and peaceful way started only 3 decades ago after China was at the edge of bankrupcy, to continue the developing and reforming the country one key aspect is that we maintain stability, order and peace.

Now there is a difference in beliefs and values between someone like me and many westerners, and see human rights in a different angle. I sincerely believe too most western human rights supporters are too short-term minded and don't look at the grander picture. Whatever is disturbing this stability, order and peace, as a patriot I would only ask our Central government to use whatever hardline policies to maintain it. Even if that means sacrificing a small minority of trouble-makers. If that can guarantee the prosperity of the other 99.9% of the people, why not. Yes, I will call myself a human right supporter as well, just in a different way.




[edit on 13/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

My question is why is this going on now with Tibet? Are the Tibetans doing it on purpose to be heard because of the Olympics?
Also if it is councelled can another nation host lets say a month before?

This is a interesting comment from a member from another site


First is denial - "Pro-China supporters are government agents."
Second is anger - "How could you disagree with me. What's wrong with you?"
Third is bargaining - "Will you at least agree that I'm less brainwashed than you?"
Fourth is fear - "Oh my God, the Chinese hate the West!"
Fifth is acceptance - "We'll have to agree to disagree."



Very much like that BBC article posted before


Here is a very interesting article about the motives of the rioters

6. The trend towards the radicalisation of the Tibetan youth and their disenchantment with the Middle Path policy became pronounced as the TYC came increasingly under the influence of American citizens of Tibetan origin. Tibetan youth, living in India, paid heed to the words and advice of the Dalai Lama even while criticising his Middle Path policy. They went along with his advice against any attempt to sabotage the Olympics even while taking advantage of the opportunity provided by the Olympics for drawing attention to their cause. They continued to respect the authority of the Dalai Lama as a spiritual and political leader.

7. But, the Americans of Tibetan origin, who had migrated to the US from India and obtained US citizenship under a special dispensation of the US Immigration Department, which granted the US citizenship to 1000 Tibetan refugees, came increasingly under the influence of anti-China groups in the US, which egged them on to sabotage the Olympic Games in order to embarrass China. This group was every vocal in the criticism of the Middle Path policy and started expressing its reservations over the wisdom of the policies of His Holiness on political issues. The Tibetan youth, who continue to be resident in India, shared His Holiness' gratitude to India for giving shelter to the refugees and looking after them, but the youth, who had settled down in the US and obtained US citizenship, did not share this gratitude. Under the advice or instigation of the anti-China groups in the US, it started itching for a confrontation with China even if this caused unhappiness in the Dalai Lama and created difficulties for India.

8. The influence of American citizens of Tibetan origin on the policies and activities of the TYC increased after Mr Tsewang Rinzin, an American citizen, was elected as the President of the Executive Committee of the TYC at its session held at Dharamsala last September, and Mr. Tenzin Yangdon, another US citizen, was elected as a member of the Executive Committee. Many Tibetans in India were surprised as to how Mr. Rinzin was elected as the President and who proposed his name and influenced his election. Some claim that even His Holiness was surprised by his election. Since his election, he has been following the agenda of the anti-Beijing Olympics groups in the US, which want to sabotage the Olympics in contravention of the wishes of His Holiness that nothing should be done to sabotage the Olympics.

www.southasiaanalysis.org...

Another cheerful day for the Olympic spirits.

The torch was warmly received in Oman by thousands of Muslims.

So where are the anti-China bashers to place those articles on this thread?

Since I still refuse to post Chinese sources, can someone help me post the News articles reporting this cheerful event in Oman? Anyone? I mean I have a difficulty to find an article in the BBC and CNN website, also difficulties with Google search.

Or do the Western media reporters who reported the Torch relay in London, Paris and San Fransisco have a holiday break untill the Torch arrives in New Delhi? Or is it that the Western media are not allowed to report something that is not in line with and even contradicting from what they want to see?

For the western pro-Tibetan supporters, maybe time for you to start thinking why the Olympic spirits arrived in Kazahkstan, Turkey, Russia, Argentina, Tanzania, Oman with so much peace and cheers?



[edit on 14/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
I mean I have a difficulty to find an article in the BBC and CNN website, also difficulties with Google search.

Really?? Your government must be blocking them, lol.

from CNN....

www.cnn.com...

from BBC....

news.bbc.co.uk...

news.yahoo.com...

news.yahoo.com...

www.reuters.com...

nbcsports.msnbc.com...

www.foxnews.com...


I found ALL of those, using Google, and reading them, I have to ask, where's the bias??



[edit on 14-4-2008 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
I mean I have a difficulty to find an article in the BBC and CNN website, also difficulties with Google search.

Really?? Your government must be blocking them, lol.

from CNN....

www.cnn.com...

from BBC....

news.bbc.co.uk...

news.yahoo.com...

news.yahoo.com...

www.reuters.com...

nbcsports.msnbc.com...

www.foxnews.com...


I found ALL of those, using Google, and reading them, I have to ask, where's the bias??



[edit on 14-4-2008 by 27jd]

Hahha, that's my difficulty:

CNN --> Seems like their site is still not updated. The Oman relay is already over Still the article of April 12, 2008 -- Updated 0144 GMT (0944 HKT) Olympic torch relay moves to Oman

BBC --> Again not an updated article. Again the Oman relay is already over Still the article of 03:31 GMT, Monday, 14 April 2008 04:31 UK Olympic torch travels on to Oman

Yahoo --> Hey I see they made the article of the actual Torch relay unlike CNN/BBC... at last one report 20 minutes ago (Note: after I posted) Olympic torch travels to Oman

Yahoo 2nd --> Old article, not the actual Torch relay. More neutral title Relaxed Omani's welcome Olympic torch

Reuters --> cannot logon, I assume blocked here

MSNBC --> Again not reporting the actual Torch relay, old and seems like they are much slower than normally to update updated 9:04 a.m. ET April 14, 2008 typically NBC reporting look at headline Security high as torch arrives in Middle East

Faux --> Same as above, and look at their title Amid Tight Security, Olympic Torch Arrives in Oman typically Faux reporting Monday, April 14, 2008


Ok out of all your sources I see only 1 from Yahoo actually reporting the Torch relay, a bit late, yet they reported. And for the first time I noticed that reuters can not be accessed (never really went to there, even when I was in Europe), will test it another day if it is really blocked or simply a one-night problem.

I will also not get into the actual content and the style of writing, because that is just simply poor.

What I want to show is that the Western MSM is ignoring what is actualy going on and will only like mandatory to report something, because it is an event after all. They will not sale the story like they sold the stories of the violent/chaotic stories in the West or the violent riots in Lahsa. Typically Western MSM.

[edit on 14/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Ichi, I think the problem is, that you guys don't have a clear understanding of how western MSM works at all. Good news, is rarely given much coverage, because it doesn't sell. You will see the same "bias" in the western media, when it comes to say Iraq. All you mainly see, is the "bombs kill __ in baghdad" headlines, you will be hard pressed to find good news coming out of Iraq, because to most westerners, it is simply boring. People want to be terrified, disgusted, shocked, etc., people here want to read BAD news. There is a saying in the media here, which is "if it bleeds, it leads". Riots get WAY more readers then an event that goes off without a hitch. The Chinese government is lying to you guys and blowing it WAY out of proportion as 'anti-China bias', when, if you really study our media, including topics about our own government's actions, you will find it is 'anti-good news' bias. The PRC is using that to their advantage to make the Chinese population angry with us, and not them.

Here's an updated article in CNN's sport section...

sportsillustrated.cnn.com...

[edit on 14-4-2008 by 27jd]

Well the media here is out to make money, they do this by getting ratings, IE getting people to watch the program. Controversy and violence get ratings - a peaceful torch ceremony isn't as exciting as one disrupted by protests, and not as many people will watch it.

The media aren't out to make China look bad, they are simply interested in controversies and dramatic events, as this is what makes them their money. They aren't politically motivated - they're greed and attention motivated

EDIT: 27jd beat me to it

[edit on 4/14/08 by xmotex]

Originally posted by 27jd
The Chinese government is lying to you guys and blowing it WAY out of proportion as 'anti-China bias'

That would be true if the Pro-China protest were organised in China. But they arent and have been created by the Chinese people living in western countries who saw for themselves the Anti-China sentiment in western media. The Chinese media did not also begin the report on Anti-China sentiment, it reported what was happening independently on the internet chat rooms.

reply to post by chinawhite


Maybe because they are too narrow minded to pay attention to all the anti-everybody else bias all over the world? They only care about China i guess, so that must be all they pay attention to? There is plenty of anti-American bias, anti-Russian bias, anti-UK bias, etc. all over these boards and elsewhere. I've seen threads against the US government, that had nothing to do with China, in which you were chiming in with everybody else against the US government. Are you saying none of that happened, and that there are no anti-US opinions in the world?