I think we've all heard by now of the new deadly sins. One of them being "Accumulating Excessive Wealth".

1. The Catholic Church has around approximately 75 million members in the US. Realistically probably only 2/3's of catholics actually pay tithes, so we'll say (50 million).
   
   
2. The average income for a US Citizen (according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics) is 36,764$ USD. So 50 million members * (36,764$ * 10%) = 183,820,000,000$ USD in tithes anually.
   
   
3. There are about 20,000+ parishes in the US, and typcial monthly operating cost would be approximately 50,000$. So real world cost to the US catholic church yearly is 20,000 * (50,000 * 12) = 12,000,000,000$ or 12 Billion dollars.
   
   

THIS IS AN EXCESS ACCUMULATION OF 171$ BILLION US-DOLLARS EACH YEAR?!! IN THE US ALONE!!

It sounds to me like someone is guilty of "Accumulating Excessive Wealth".

[edit on 3/14/2008 by Choronzon]

I personally don't think the average catholic church member is putting $70.00 in the collection plate every Sunday every week. I think the amount of offerings is probably considerably lower.

Just a side question, but are catholics required to confess not titheing if they skimp on their tithes?

What about the inquisition, murder of untold millions, concealment of pedophilia etc?

Those are spiritual crimes that far outweigh any amount of money.

But you're right, the Vatican is more powerful than most countries - it is NOT a force of enlightenment for this planet.

I'll be damned if the Vatican has helped mankind evolve one iota. It has highjacked and succesfully perverted Christianity and stomped out countless other religions in an attempt to stifle our evolution.

Stick'em to the wall ... or at least stop worshipping this monetary establishment.

lets look at the sins then
genetic modification (fair enough, the church hasn't supported this since the nazis)
carrying out experiments on humans (again, not since the nazis)
polluting the environment (farting realeases methane gas which is a very bad green house gas, and the vatican heating bills are hefty documents, also, ever seen a double glazed stained glass window?)
causing social injustice (giving one bum a dollar and not the next)
causing poverty (the bum taking the dollar)
becoming obscenely wealthy ('cause being obscenely wealthy already doesn't count)
taking drugs (like asprin or cough drops or alcohol, except wine, jesus liked wine)

and you only picked one?!? yeesh, use your imagination.

Oh yeah, I'm sure they're guilty of much more, but the nail that sticks out the furthest gets hammered down first.

Well, that's some pretty fancy figurin'. I'm not much for book learnin', but maybe you might want to take a look at how much the Vatican spends on running hospices, food kitchens, hospitals and orphanages each year.

Your estimate on how much is donated by parishioners is a joke. Your use of statistics is specious. But please, don't let that get in the way of some good old Catholic bashing!

A more serious discussion would be is wealth accumulation a sin and if so how does the changing definition of wealth in a information based economy affecting that.

Eric

Originally posted by EricD
Well, that's some pretty fancy figurin'. I'm not much for book learnin', but maybe you might want to take a look at how much the Vatican spends on running hospices, food kitchens, hospitals and orphanages each year.

Your estimate on how much is donated by parishioners is a joke. Your use of statistics is specious.

You know, Im game. How much do you think it costs to operate in the US each year?

Do you actually believe that the vatican operates in the red? Or produces a profit and if so how much profit do you feel that they make?

Are you catholic?

Originally posted by Choronzon

You know, Im game. How much do you think it costs to operate in the US each year?

Do you actually believe that the vatican operates in the red? Or produces a profit and if so how much profit do you feel that they make?

Are you catholic?

Sorry that it took so long to get back to you. I hurt my left arm and I've been pecking at the keyboard with one hand. Major annoyance.

So, to answer your questions:

1) I would say that I'm not as good a Catholic as I would like to be. Sorry, don't mean to equivocate, but that's the best way I can put it.

2) I have no idea how much the Church takes in and what their expenses are. I would be speaking out of ignorance if I ventured a guess.

I believe that a more interesting question than that of the old 'hey, ain't the Vatican sitting on more gold than the Gnomes of Zurich?' is 'Is the accumulation of wealth in modern economics a true sin or are the people making these statements qualified to understand both advanced economics and theology?

To a large degree, in the time of Christ wealth was not created, it was only transferred or discovered. In todays knowledge based society wealth is created every day. It isn't necessarily a zero sum game.

Eric

How about the gold they stole from the New World and Africa? We're talking hundreds of tons. It is still lying there in the vaults of the Vatican if they haven't turned it into communion cups, thrones, art and toilets for the pope.

...not to mention all the "heretics", "pagans", "witches" and so on they have slaughtered in the most perverse manners...

They have perverted our faith with false, pagan dogmas and doctrines.

Yes, there is a certain irony in the Catholic Church feeling that they are the arbiters of morality when they themselves used all kinds of mortal sin to establish and grow their religion. Maybe they should combine education on church history and teaching on morality by giving new Catholics a book of church history with the instructions: "If you read this you will learn our history. If you do the opposite of everything in here, you won't commit any mortal sins."

What an extraordinary OP - the guestimates involved certainly would give comfort to many Catholics if true. How wonderful it would be if 2/3s of Catholics regularly practiced their faith, unfortunately the average estimate of practice in the Western world is 25% - and that's being generous. Tithing is not a requirement of the Catholic Church, it's a "give what you can/want" situation - I can assure you most priests would be delighted with the silent paper collection you imagine.
The Church is a "not-for-profit" organisation and the monies collected maintain the Church buildings and provide a comfortable, not expensive, lifestyle for its staff. In most parishes lay emloyees earn more than the priest, because they necessarily are given a proper salary. The Catholic Church in it's hospices, hospitals, orphanages, poverty care etc. etc. contributes so much to society - that would be a more fruitful calculation.
It's trully frightening that someone decides to make up some numbers to attack an institution s/he is uncomfortable with and that others read it and star it, or agree with it in theoir subsequent posts. Fight ignorance, not contribute to it with fantasy calculations.

By the way I know the pope wears fancy white outfits and regularly fills stadiums but try not to confuse him with Elvis and his golden toilet.

[edit on 29/10/08 by Supercertari]