Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by sizzle
What is your views on reincarnation?
What in your opinion does the Bible say about it? Or does it?

Edit: This question is also open to anyone else who wishes to offer an opinion.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by sizzle]

According to a Sephardic Orthodox Jewish perspective, Reincarnation is integral to Judaism - and is not uncommon. Now if your a jew who doesnt attend a yeshiva or your 'reform', this concept may be as foreign as it is to a 'classic' christian.

Now does this mean it is what you 'think' it is?
All I can say is its time to look past the allegories.
Jesus taught in parables (a very jewish thing indeed) and people tend to get stuck with the baby milk (the stories) and dont see what they (the words) are pointing to.

I will recommend one rabbi with a ton of text, not saying that it will be easy reading if your coming with your cup field - as you cant learn anything new or understand another perspective that way...but here you go.
www.koshertorah.com

There is a lot that makes sense in the N.T., especially Pauls and Jesus teachings, once you learn the Jewish perspective and milieu. (which is what they were, Jewish, and the perspective from which they were coming from.)

I will point out for fun another subject, once your on that site (or go to chabad.org) and look up the belief on messiah. This will give you an insight into this subject that will help you better understand why Jesus is rejected as the messiah...at least the kind of messiah most Christians are waiting for.

Not even Mr. Brown can take on this rabbi and come across a winner.
(Jews for Jesus dude)

Now am I saying their opinion is right? I will say it was their religion before it was this modern fiasco that we have that is far from what Jesus taught.

Oh, and the bit in the N.T. where they asked if John the Baptist was the Elijah...it is referring to reincarnation no matter how a Christian will argue otherwise.

How can I be sure? Well think about it.
We have our western milieu and our doctrine passed down to us which is far from its Jewish roots. So of course we would find any argument that went against something that we did not believe.

But to go to the roots and see that rabbis around Jesus time believed this sheds new light on it.

Now I would say at least the Christians first step would be to say, "o.k., perhaps they did believe that...but they were wrong". At least they admit they dont hold the goods on a religion older than their modern interpretation. (that indeed the belief was back then.)

Then they may open up further to try to figure out what the heck this stuff means.
And why does solomon say, "the the wise mans soul meet the same fate as the dog and stay in the ground?" - paraphrase.

My point is Christians (me being one of them) have their cookie cutter answers for everything. No matter how much what we say contradicts itself, we will say the word of God is without error but not question the inconsistencies there.

Perhaps its not without error, but our reasoning often is. It is blinded by that doctrine that we are handed down and a set of rule in apologetics to ward of 'the devil'.

I have listened to debates (from the top guys...namely Mr. Brown and different Jews) and saw that neither of them won the debate. Both sides were to darn closed to hear what the other said. Both were 'smug', so it seemed. (actually one side stubborn and the other smug and stubborn...)

Point is that when you close your eyes, you no longer can see.
We dont have all the answers. (we do, but we have to find them, put the puzzle together) When you think you have all the answers, your arms are to full to carry more. (not the best way to put it, but it gets the point across)

So having said that, I will leave this topic be.
I have no need to debate and go back and forth of if "Im right", etc.

There is nothing here that Im trying to sell or be right about.
I dont care if you believe in reincarnation or not.

However, it would be nice if my fellow Christians (humans in general) could drop their preconceived notions about things and truly search with their whole heart. Instead of in fear that they are wrong. (fear is the opposite of what we are supposed to show as a Christian.)

You will know them by their fruits, and there is a lot of pride which comes from fear.

Love.
Love is acceptance.

Notice Jesus never went to change anyone.
Not one. There was never at time he anticipated the prostitute or the tax gather to change. Most Christians tend to think that their forgiveness came about because Jesus knew they would change. Its grace, but its works.

People are not what they do, despite this being a "Christian" attitude.
If you define yourself by your actions, you are bound to repeat them.

Jesus saw his brothers and sisters...he saw the heart...not the story that we often identify with and thus get stuck in that role we play.

Its this acceptance, this dis-identifying with their role, that allowed them to put down that which was no longer beneficial.

Once we realize this very last basic statement/example...we will be free.
Who cares about the whole post I have.

If you read this post, I hope that last bit is what you take home with you.
Not the bit about the nice logical arguments of how you need to open up in order to grow you mind and knowledge. (it would help, but its secondary.)

The point is as a Christian, or a human...to learn to do that which Jesus did.
Stop quoting the man, and start living the life he did. I wonder how many of you actually pay attention to the actions of Jesus and get what it was he was doing and about?

How could you when your own leaders propose to nuke and kill people all the time.
Here Jesus puts the soldiers ear on, and most of you are ready to take it off.
Here Jesus is trying to say the kingdom is not of this earth, its within you - yet people who proclaim to be his followers today are doing like his followers of yesteryear...trying to proclaim an earthly kingdom...with a government and by laws that all can go by.

Change happens within you.
You are a microcosm of the universe. We are in Christ, Christ is in us, etc., etc.

Hey, you probably feel my energy. Yeah, I used to be the zealot. If you think I can talk your ear off with one post, you can only imagine the he** I could give to someone in a debate to convert them to the truth...oh wait, there is nothing they needed converting to. (Twice the son of hell scenario Jesus talked about...I have posted about it before and blogged about it. Go read the speech Jesus had about it, and figure out what it means.)

Basically, we go out and convert people to our little stories, and they get even more entrapped in the thing that possesses them...not some red demon with a pitchfork...but the ego. The tool that instead of being used...uses us. (I will point to Eckhart Tolle from here. There are others that say it as well, but he may be the most eloquent and easiest on the Christian.)

Thats it...you wont get any debate back from this. You either got it, kind of got it...dont want to get it. This is not about facts...its about 'being'. There is a message here greater than the words...or in other words, these words point beyond themselves. Dont get bogged down in them, feel and see where they are pointing to. (That last bit might sound to esoterical)

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by sizzle
Before joining ATS, I really had no idea that there was such blatant hatred for Christianity

It is as you make it.

When you see the story from one side, you only see that side.

People do NOT hate Christianity.
Having been in the shoes of one who was on the receiving end of hostility, if you want to call it that, and then being where I am now...I can say that its a matter of perception.

People are tired of the attitude that typically emanates from a Christian. And it isnt because they are repulsed by the Holy Spirit within.

Its hard to put in words, you have to figure it out and feel it for yourself.
But when you put yourself in someone elses shoe...who does not believe how you do, and then hear how most typical Christians sound...it can be annoying.

I doubt this cleared things up more...but the point is how Christians communicate.
You have to admit it is like a zealous group that wants to impose their way and view point on a world that "they love"...but if someone doesnt want it...no matter how good it is...you have to give them space. That is called love. (the space and acceptance.)

Peace

dAlen

edit: I wanted to add to something else you said.
You mentioned you could talk to your friends who arent Christians without feeling the hostilities you feel here.

Again, it boils down to communication. It is by far to easy to misunderstand someone you never met before. Think about how easy it is to even misunderstand someone close to us. Communication is tricky.

Our grid systems filter away and like I said at the beginning, its what you make of it.
I like what Eckhart Tolle says: "Often you find out you treat others how you thought they were treating you". - makes you think.

Peace

[edit on 7-3-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by sizzle
I have friends and acquaintances that are not necessarily Christians, or believers.

Whaddar they gonna say about in you in church! Isn't that like...forbidden in your bible...or something?

Originally posted by sizzle
Probably even Atheists. But we are able to discuss things on a tolerant, mature level. We just have calm exchanges of ideas and opinions.
It causes me to wonder what the difference is.

The difference is people can hide behind the mask of the internet and say how they really feel. People often patronize or avoid topics that get them upset when face to face.

Originally posted by sizzle
Is it really a different calibre of people here,

Same people, maybe younger crowd demographically. Mods could probably show that stat better than I could.

Originally posted by sizzle
or is it just easier to be rude and unkind when you are hiding behind avatars and user ID's?

BINGO!

Originally posted by sizzle
It makes me reluctant to even try to discuss these things because of the hostilities.

Since there's no biting, just loud barking.

"The following night the Lord stood near Paul and said, "Take courage! As you have testified about me in Jerusalem, so you must also testify in Rome." - Acts 23:11

Welcome to the Colosseum.

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." - Ephesians 6:10-17

[edit on 7-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by dAlen


dAlen,
It's a little unfair to post and run.
It is also unfair to assume that everyone just accepts everything that is spoonfed to them. When I first came to the Lord, and I realized that there were spiritual gifts available to the believer, and the bible inferred that wisdom was the greatest of all these. That was the gift that I asked for.
It came at a price. But I did realize that wisdom comes through experiencing all sorts of things.
My next request was; that if I was in the wrong place (teaching, beliefs, etc.) please guide me in the correct path.
I also became aware that we are given the gift of discerning of spirits (test all things to see if they be of God). I had a very good teacher, early in my salvation. He did not preach. He taught. Preachers used to scare me. But when I ran across this guy, I could not wait to hear what he had to say next.
Unfortunately, I had to move from the area. But a solid foundation was laid.
Since, I have studied, 'All THINGS.'
I have gone back to the ancient texts, and various other religions and teachings; and found myself in such a state of confusion that I began to doubt what I ever had believed.
Then that still small voice illuminated me that said, "I know in whom I have believed."
Then my strength returned. The power of the Word returned, etc.
I can't argue contradictions in the bible with people, because my heart doesn't see those. What is important to me is; Jesus came, He died for our sins, salvation is a free gift, and God loves us so much that He is unwilling that any should perish.
That is what is important to me.

reply to post by dAlen


dAlen,
I hardly think it is just my misunderstanding or personal opinion, when a member says that if a Christian gets in his face, he will take a baseball bat to them. What viewpoint would you take of that?

Originally posted by sizzle

dAlen,
I hardly think it is just my misunderstanding or personal opinion, when a member says that if a Christian gets in his face, he will take a baseball bat to them. What viewpoint would you take of that?

uhmmm...you didnt say that.
It was implied you were talking in general about the attitude of non Christians at ATS.
Perhaps I was wrong.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by sizzle

dAlen,
It's a little unfair to post and run.

First, you have your testimony...and I truly respect that. No one can take it from you...its your path.

As far as hit and run...have to. Otherwise it goes in circles.
Typically with religion when there is a misunderstanding its due to not seeing through someone elses eyes what they are talking about. And any conversation that continues past this leads to idle/silly arguments.

In reality, there is one poster on these boards (a christian) who reminds me a bit of myself when I was the zealot. And I realize that you can talk till your blue in the face, and still not get the point you want across.

When the person is ready the teacher is there.
In other words, if what I have to say has any relevance it will fall upon those who already are predispositioned to know what I mean...and not because Im a great teacher, but because it is shining a light on the truth that is already there...just waiting to wake up.

Anyway, again, in truth, communication is a skill and I write to fast for it to get across to someone who probably doesnt want to see another viewpoint. (not necessarily referring to you.)

peace

dAlen

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by sizzle

dAlen,
I hardly think it is just my misunderstanding or personal opinion, when a member says that if a Christian gets in his face, he will take a baseball bat to them. What viewpoint would you take of that?

uhmmm...you didnt say that.
It was implied you were talking in general about the attitude of non Christians at ATS.
Perhaps I was wrong.

Peace

dAlen

I referred you earlier to a specific thread. It is now 35 pages long. I opened the thread, but I found it to be so hostile, that I bowed out.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by sizzle
Saint,
What is your views on reincarnation?

Haven't we had this discussion before? Maybe like in a previous life? Do you believe in De Ja Vu? Do you believe in De Ja Vu?

The conceptual difficulty (religion aside) is IF this were to occur, what would be the point? If you remember nothing, learn nothing, then what's the motivation for doing anything?

Originally posted by sizzle
What in your opinion does the Bible say about it?

Reincarnation isn't in the Bible.

Originally posted by sizzle
Or does it?

No, but there's a religious group that would benefit greatly from Christians who would believe such. Researching them will give motivation to this rumor.

reincarnation is in the bible it says Jesus Christ will have a new name in revelations and in chapter 12 it clearly states that their is a chosen child who will rule all nations with a rod of iron if this is not evidence of reincarnation of Christ then i do not know what is, and i submit to you that in fact their is only ONE holy spirit and that is the spirit of christ which will possess the child mentioned in chapter 12 what are your thoughts on this saint? not attacking just curious because I'm pretty sure we have the same bible with mild changes as i read KJV. also i submit to you their is evidence of Christ in genesis when god created man he said in genesis 1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image to OUR likeness." if this is not evidence of Christ in the first chapter of the first book of the bible then the holy spirit is as old as time itself and Christ as man in fact was sent to die for sins in the book of Malachi chapter 3 it mentions a messenger who i believe to be john the baptist to prepare the way of the first coming of Christ. btw Malachi is the last book in the "Old Testament".

[edit on 7-3-2008 by Kis11]

reply to post by dave420

Oh, good reply! Allow me to attempt to shed some light on some of these... and for those who want to follow along, the page of evil is here.

The first two sections in their entirety are concerning sections of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Exodus, three of the books commonly referred to as the Law of Moses. And yes, in almost all of these laws, death is the punishment. Why? because there was no other punishment available at the time. No one was sent to prison; prison was developed much, much later, and only then among settled tribes of people. The Hebrews were nomads, and therefore would have had to carry the building with its inhabitants on the backs of a few camels... I would call that impractical.

But even beyond that, the Ezekial 20:25-26 verse:

explains it. Ezekial 20 (which is such a long chapter I will not post it all here, please look it up for yourself) is a recount from God to the prophet Ezekial of the events that took place between the choosing of the Hebrews and the creation of the nation of Israel, from His perspective. This was explained to Ezekial so he could explain to those in power at the time that they were displeasing God. Ezekial 20 gives a myriad of offenses the Hebrews committed along with God's reactions and reasons.

Simply put, God needed someone to bring Jesus into the world to pay the debt of sin that man had brought upon himself. This was not an act of cruelty. God could easily have destroyed mankind and started all over again. Had He done so, neither of us would be here to argue the fact. But God gave mankind another chance. To do so, to bring Jesus into the world, to pay that debt that MAN, not God, made, He needed a people to follow him. And in order to keep Israel doing so, he had to, at times, punish them, as a good father disciplines his children. What seems harsh to us is what has been termed 'tough love', just as a spanking for wrong behavior seems harsh to the child being spanked, but in the end it makes him a better person. God punished the Hebrews by making the laws tougher, to the point that they had no choice but to obey him.

I guess being the 'chosen people' isn't all pleasant.

On the Slavery section, you have two different timelines completely mixed together, so I'll un-mix these to respond. Exodus and Leviticus refer to slavery, yes. But slavery was common at that time, and a far more compassionate method to killing one's enemies.

As for the other two:


I suggest you continue reading:


So submitting is not the same as tormenting here. Wives abide by your husbands commands, and husbands, protect and cherish your wives. Oh, how cruel!

Continuing with I Peter:


I fail to even see how this is remotely harsh. 'Obey the laws of man'? That in essence is what it says.



Again,. slavery was commonplace at that time. Same command as above, but with those who were slaves.

I'm not even going to explain the Matthew verses next, since I see nothing in them that could even be construed as threatening. They are nothing more than a description of how Christ will return, no mention of killing, maiming, looting, rape, or cheating on your taxes.

OK, I'm bookmarking this for now. I've had a long day arguing with a disagreeable keyboard (that's why it took so long to reply), and I'm tired. So far we have a selection of out-of-context verses and attempts to place modern customs on an ancient people.

Oh, yes, for anyone who may be confused, my quotes are from the KJV, since I am more familiar with that translation.

TheRedneck

(edited for formatting typos - TWICE!)


[edit on 7-3-2008 by TheRedneck]

[edit on 7-3-2008 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by TheRedneck


Hi,
I really appreciate the time and effort that you put into that reply.
I must admit that I have never studied nearly as much OT text as I have the NT text. Not that I discount it or anything. I am very fond of the Psalms and the book of Daniel. Oh and I like Malachi a lot as well. I've probably read all of it. But just not as much indepth studying as in my favorite areas. (Guilty!).

You know, there is something that a lot of people overlook. And I am speaking of the member who suggested that God should have just done things a different or more simpler way, in his/her opinion.
If folks would read the bible in it's entirety and especially IN CONTEXT. They would see that God cannot break His own laws.
The bible says that He set the laws of the universe(?) before the foundations of the earth.
Do we not all cry, "Foul!" when our law enforcement break the laws that they are empowered to uphold? What would the angels of Heaven think if God suddenly started breaking His own laws?
Doesn't His Word tell us that He is the same, yesterday, today and forever?

I know I will get some out of context argument there. But oh well.
Thanks again for sharing your views with us.

Originally posted by Kis11
reincarnation is in the bible it says Jesus Christ will have a new name in revelations and in chapter 12 it clearly states that their is a chosen child who will rule all nations with a rod of iron if this is not evidence of reincarnation of Christ then i do not know what is,

To me it sounds like a very loose interpretation of the word. I suppose one could say that dying and then living on is a kind of second incarnation (reincarnation) but doesn't seem to fit the traditional Hindu protocol on how it is used. No karma, no cycling through time repeatedly, no change in social status because of what we did in this life, etc.

Originally posted by Kis11
and i submit to you that in fact their is only ONE holy spirit and that is the spirit of christ which will possess the child mentioned in chapter 12 what are your thoughts on this saint?

I'd always gotten the impression this was the story of Jesus Christ circa 2,000 years ago. It could occur again as a pointing back to that moment, but am not sure the reasoning why. The Holy Spirit is mentioned many times throughout the Bible and came upon many, young and old. Many believers believe that indeed that's what a person is filled with and baptised with when the become saved like in Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, and John 1:33.

Originally posted by Kis11
not attacking just curious because I'm pretty sure we have the same bible with mild changes as i read KJV. also i submit to you their is evidence of Christ in genesis when god created man he said in genesis 1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image to OUR likeness." if this is not evidence of Christ in the first chapter of the first book of the bible then the holy spirit is as old as time itself and Christ as man in fact was sent to die for sins in the book of Malachi chapter 3 it mentions a messenger who i believe to be john the baptist to prepare the way of the first coming of Christ. btw Malachi is the last book in the "Old Testament".

I think most Christians would agree this was the case. It was suggested, though I'm not sure a case can be presented to say "without a doubt". This is supported however with "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - John 8:58

reply to post by sizzle


Hi sizzle!! Yes, you may get some out-of-context arguments on that, but not from me. It sounds to me like you're right on track.

I actually didn't spend much time on it. As I hinted at, I spent most of my time trying to dry out a keyboard. The verses are pretty self-explanatory when you read the whole book. Unfortunately that's something most people who are so hate-filled toward Christianity never do. My personal feeling is its a sign of simple laziness; they want to weigh in on how 'evil' the religion is, yet they do not want to spend time looking into it. It's so much easier to simply read what someone else thinks they have found.

And I have to admit, I do it as well (usually on other subjects). I think we all do it to some extent. So don't berate yourself, as I don't berate the poster of that page of 'evil' quotes or dave240.

Ah, and as to the subject of God following His own laws, I like it when a preacher tells me God can do anything. I respond "No, He can't. God cannot lie, for whenever He says something, it happens and becomes the truth."

Now if I can just reword that so I don't keep getting kicked out of church...

TheRedneck

Can God lie? Let's make this an interesting discussion for believers as well as non. This is one of those minute trival matters that makes no difference at the end of the day, but I think it's always fun to look at.

"For nothing is impossible with God." - Luke 1:37

So...either God can lie or the above phrase is a lie. Which is it?

We know God can make others lie:

" 'By what means?' the LORD asked. " 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.' - 1 Kings 22:22

"So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you." - 1 Kings 22:23

Can God lie? Perhaps, but he doesn't:

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? " - Numbers 23:19

Level 2. If God lies, then isn't it the truth and everything that says otherwise a lie?

I believe there's nothing God can't do...but there's plenty He won't do.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by dAlen
People are tired of the attitude that typically emanates from a Christian. And it isnt because they are repulsed by the Holy Spirit within.

Part of the problem is that the scum rise to the top. The most powerful and vocal Christians are often not good people. I need not have just picked on Christianity; the same is true for all religions. But Christianity is the most common and politically dominant one here (despite separation of church and state which for the most part worked admirably.) It ends up being the elephant that steps on ants without knowing it.

And many people in this continent have been abused by Christian parents, teachers, tribes, and institutions - and ended up hating Christianity for that matter. I may be one of them. There's a simple reason why there's so much hatred for Christianity as opposed to (say) Zen Buddhism.

Its hard to put in words, you have to figure it out and feel it for yourself.
But when you put yourself in someone elses shoe...who does not believe how you do, and then hear how most typical Christians sound...it can be annoying.

That's another part of the problem. Christianity is a "spread the good news" type of religion. It's not (except for ethnic churches) a "keep it in the family / others aren't good enough for it" faith. I honestly believe that one religion is not for everyone. The "right" religion for an individual depends on personality and spirituality. For some it may be Christianity, of whatever denomination. For some it may be Buddhism. For some it may even be Satanism.

I tried Christianity when I was younger, and again when I was older. It didn't work for me. In the past few years, I found another spirituality that really seems to work - for me. The fact that I am neuro-atypical might have something to do with it too.

I doubt this cleared things up more...but the point is how Christians communicate.
You have to admit it is like a zealous group that wants to impose their way and view point on a world that "they love"...but if someone doesnt want it...no matter how good it is...you have to give them space. That is called love. (the space and acceptance.)

Exactly!

Sometimes the greatest love is letting someone go, and lead his/her own life and find the meaning of it on his/her own. There's no use in saving someone's soul if that person doesn't want to be saved - or maybe that person has found salvation in a way different from yourself? What about "in my house are many mansions".

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
There is no use in saving someone's soul if that person doesn't want to be saved -

Very true. In fact, it is not something someone can do for another.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
or maybe that person has found salvation in a way different from yourself?

If God wants someone saved, the message of that desire will get to them one way or another. I agree that Christians should not feel that they individually are the only hope or last chance.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
What about "in my house are many mansions".

Which is not to say "in my house are many gods" nor "to my front door there are many paths". In fact, the opposite is said, "no one comes to the father except through me" and "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it". Once into God's heaven, yes, there seems to be much to do.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by saint4God]

Hi Saint!
It is a gorgeous day here in west Texas! Been out soaking up the rays. Was wondering if you had ever studied any of the ancient texts, such as the Sumerian texts? And what your viewpoint is, if any?

There is another problem that exists, "God said, Let us make men in our image, after our likeness"; then the suggestion was carried out: "And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them." The problem is pluralism. The suggestion originates from a plural entity who addresses a plural audience. As both Orientalists and Bible scholars now know, what went on was the editing and summarizing by the compilers of the Book of Genesis of much earlier and considerably more detailed texts first written down in Sumer.

Ancient Mesopotamian tablets say there once was a time where there were no humans on earth at all. Instead, earth was inhabited by the gods. The gods were mining and exploiting earth's resources. Life on earth wasn't easy for these gods. As one tablet says:

When the gods like men
Bore the work and suffered the toil-
The toil of the gods was great,
The work was heavy, the distress was much---

The gods were not happy with their situation. They were prone to complaining, backstabbing, and rebellion against their leaders. They needed a solution, a new race of slaves to take over their back breaking work.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

[edit on 8-3-2008 by sizzle]

[edit on 8-3-2008 by sizzle]

Here's more:

The ancient Mesopotamian civilizations recorded a great deal of their history on clay tablets. They tell a remarkable story about the gods and their relationship to humans. These tablets reflect that the gods had male and female bodies, and they bred by sexual intercourse. In fact, ancient Mesopotamians stated that they provided these ruling gods with human prostitutes.

Ancient Mesopotamian tablets credit one "god" in particular with supervising the genetic manufacture of Homo sapiens. That "god's" name was Ea. Ea was the son of Anu, who was the ruler of another world. Prince Ea was known by the title, "EN.KI," which means "Lord [or Prince] of Earth."

Mesopotamian texts portray Prince Ea as an advocate who spoke before the council of the gods on behalf of the new earth race. Ea opposed many of the cruelties that other "gods," including his half brother, Enlil, inflicted upon human beings.

Human civilization suddenly pops up around 4,000 BC. The only written history that we have is for the past 6,000 years. The Great Pyramid of Giza reflects the biblical record revealing 4,000 BC as the year The Adam was created. You will find a link to the Great Pyramid of Prophecy on the links page which backs up this hypothesis.

So, where did we humans come from? We have the Bible and ancient Sumerian clay tablets telling us that the Great Anunnaki were responsible for mankind's creation as a slave. But how did they do it exactly?

Many people are unaware of the sudden extinction of the Neanderthals and the sudden appearance of human beings. Evolution isn't that fast! Messrs. Howell and White pondered this question and concluded:

. . . the utter, almost abrupt disappearance of Neanderthal people remains one of the enigmas and critical problems in studies of human evolution.

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Saint, Check this out:

In Europe, occult leaders were told by their Familiar Spirits as early as the 1740's that the new American continent was to be established as the new "Atlantis", and its destiny was to assume the global leadership of the drive to the New World Order.

The United States of America was chosen to lead the world into this kingdom of Antichrist from the beginning. The capital is Washington, D.C.

In 1791, Pierre Charles L'Enfante(the designer, who was a Freemason), laid out Governmental Center of Washington, D.C., he planned more than just streets, roads, and buildings. He hid certain occultic magical symbols in the layout of U.S. Governmental Center. When these symbols are united they become one large Luciferic, or occultic, symbol.

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