Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by sizzle
Maybe a Christian cannot become possessed.

A believer cannot be possessed because s/he is under the protection of God. Already signed, sealed and delivered. The only way I know of a believer becoming possessed is if they willingly invite a demon to do so. Many Christians will argue though that they were never truly a Christian in the first place if they do this. I don't agree. All of which I can point to the Biblical verses if interested.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Forgive me if I am out of line here (you did ask saint), but I would like to weigh in on this matter.

Totally feel free. I was hoping this would be a forum instead of a one person show. I was just willing to paint myself as the target for those who didn't want to be 'it'.

Originally posted by dAlen
Its the same as asking S4G an opinion on Christianity.

If I recall, you'd put me on your ignore list last year. Have things changed? I'm always willing to talk if you are, but figured if my responses went unseen there wouldn't be much point.

Secondly, I do have a suggestion if you have issue with people addressing me on my thread.

Originally posted by dAlen
If you are in one of the groups, and you are wrong according to the others, you will wind up in hell. Now how is that for consistency on the main doctrine?[/

Is that so? My book says something different in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Thanks for your input to the question I raised!

As for judgements, yes, you are correct, only God knows the heart and, that should be the deciding factor in regard to anything in respect of who claims to be a Christian.

As for judgements, and being judged according to how one judges, in relation to condemnation, one thing I have noticed over the years, when an individual rises up in great condemnation of another, the outcome has always pointed back to the one condemning.

That is to say, the one condemning was involved in an act like, or, even greater, than the one being condemned. Therefore, Condemnation of another, seems to serve as a red flag, where the condemning party is concerned.

Originally posted by Aether
why has your religion killed more humans than WW1 and WW2 put together?

It hasn't. Have you stopped beating your wife? Nice try though.

Originally posted by Aether
why do you still press yourself out in the open as a "christian" like that makes you different than any of other human being.

It makes me different in that I believe that God sent His one and only son Jesus Christ to be our lord and saviour. Why does being a "football player" make someone different than any other human being? Perhaps it's because they play football? I have issues with 'imposed labels' not 'self imposed labels'.

Originally posted by Aether
AND if it doesn't then why did you make this thread with that title?

Per suggestion from a friend, it was inteded to be of assistance to one another by discussing matters of the supernatural.

Originally posted by sizzle
Saint,
I must be losing my mind,

Nope, no taking blame for this, it's me who tends to dig deep and analyse more than what was presented.

Originally posted by sizzle
I have no memory of posting this statement:

You didn't, it was a part of the same article you quoted. I went to the link and read all that was being said because it was a strong claim and wanted to see the proofs. To my surprise I found a bunch of strong claims that seemed in my assessment, great stretches of assumptions. So...it puts the original assertion in doubt as a credible source. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but would advise caution in merely accepting it as right because they said so.

Originally posted by sizzle
It would be hypocritical of me to post this.

I wouldn't fear being considered hypocritical. We're all hypocrites in that we will say one thing yet do another. The difference between those who believe versus those who don't are that those believers are held accountable to the moral standards they've elected to align themselves to. So whereas others say "yeah I break the law, so what?" we have so say "I broke the law, I'm sorry. I will do everything I can not to let it happen again" and mean it with all sincerity.

Originally posted by sizzle
There are many types of rock music that I enjoy myself. Could you point me to this exact post?

I can't because I dived into the link.

Originally posted by sizzle
One more edit: Also want to add that I disagree somewhat to this statement. Personally, I don't think that I, myself am addicted to rock music. And there are many others that I know personally, that I would not consider, addicted.

Ah, but according to the source you'd posted, this is because you are "so addicted to rock" that you cannot be without it and are willing to defend it . Nice little catch-22 trap, eh? Even believers have to be aware of the traps set by other who claim to be believers.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by sizzle
Many acts were done in the name of Christianity, but not necessarily by true Christians. "Wolves come in sheeps clothing." "Many shall come in My Name, but are not of Me." _Jesus Christ

This is a good point...yet we cannot finger-wag and shout "you are not a true Christian!" because how many times have you or I said/done/thought things that were not Christian? Time to set up the money-jar and drop a quarter for each time. I'd be able to retire in two or three years I'm sure

reply to post by saint4God


The reason I can honestly claim not to be addicted, is that I can't tell you when I even listened to music of any kind. If I am addicted to anything, it is probably ATS!

Originally posted by sizzle
The reason I can honestly claim not to be addicted, is that I can't tell you when I even listened to music of any kind. If I am addicted to anything, it is probably ATS!

Word!

Yeah, I'm on here more than I should, suffer withdrawl, and place importance on the activities here...but is it ATS I'm addicted to? Or is it the fact that I can talk about great topics with great people? I'm inclined to think my addiction is with other people than the tool I use to do so. If ATS had random automated responses, I would not be here, surely.

P.S. My iPod says I'm addicted to music too, Christian and otherwise, but it is not my religion nor is it something I cannot live without.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by sizzle
Many acts were done in the name of Christianity, but not necessarily by true Christians. "Wolves come in sheeps clothing." "Many shall come in My Name, but are not of Me." _Jesus Christ

This is a good point...yet we cannot finger-wag and shout "you are not a true Christian!" because how many times have you or I said/done/thought things that were not Christian? Time to set up the money-jar and drop a quarter for each time. I'd be able to retire in two or three years I'm sure

That is a very good point S4G,
But I was watching something on the History channel about the Salem witch trials, and there was mention made that the man that headed up those trials was not even a Christian. And that many times, these accusations were made in order to obtain property and wealth from that person and had nothing to do with any acts of witchcraft.

Originally posted by sizzle
That is a very good point S4G,
But I was watching something on the History channel about the Salem witch trials, and there was mention made that the man that headed up those trials was not even a Christian.

I did not know that. Very interesting. My heart goes out to the 19 who were killed in the Salem witch trials and to their friends and family who needlessly suffered the loss. The reason why this gets more attention than the following...

Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested. In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks. Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water in winter until they turned to ice-pillars. In 1922, the Solovki Camp of Special Purpose, the first Russian concentration camp was established in the Solovki Islands in the White Sea. Eight metropolitans, twenty archbishops, and forty-seven bishops of the Orthodox Church died there, along with tens of thousands of the laity. Of these, 95,000 were put to death, executed by firing squad. Father Pavel Florensky was one of the New-martyrs of this particular period.

In the first five years after the Bolshevik revolution, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were executed.

en.wikipedia.org...

...is because it happened here in America where we strive towards equality and justice. We'll never have perfect equality and justice in America, though we will try, so this seems like a great tragedy compared to the hundreds of thousands who have died for their beliefs in another country.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Great find, Saint!
I was unaware of these facts. Somehow in all the mud-slinging against Christians, this gets overlooked. Wonder why?

Saint4God, you are doing an excellent job with this thread and it was very sweet of you to make it for Sizzle. Not sure why the Borg Team showed up to attack it. Well, of course we know why but maybe one day they'll be mature enough to see a topic they have no interest in and move along. There are millions of other threads on ATS/PTS/BTS, right? Right? Yes, I thought so, too.

reply to post by Aether

What?! This is shocking news! You mean Christianity is going around killing people? What is its weapon of choice? Guns? Swords? TNT? You need to make a breaking news article. Now, of course Christianity has not killed a single person. People have done so. And I would hardly think it killed as many as WWI & WWII combined. Now that's just silly to make such a claim.

And I guess that's it. Looks like Sizzle and Saint are doing a fine job in this thread and have covered some pretty good stuff.

reply to post by AshleyD


Thank you for your input Ash,
The statement about ppl instead of Christianity itself, is a very good point. I always enjoy your posts.

I'd like to know why saint4god doesn't believe in Thor or Odin.

Originally posted by dAlen

See what you may not realize is that each denomination and then group (jew who is the root of Christianity) believes differently. Trust me on this, or look it up yourself if you want.

I have said many a time, but in mainstream, evangelical Christianity, 3 of its main groups dont even agree on then tenets of salvation
The Presbyterians, Southern Baptist, & Pentecostal.

If you are in one of the groups, and you are wrong according to the others, you will wind up in hell. Now how is that for consistency on the main doctrine?

Very impressive resume, dAlen. But I submit to you that perhaps you are looking at the differences through physical eyes.

A bull cannot see colors, only black and white shades of gray. Their eyes do not contain the needed sensors to differentiate between frequencies of light. Yet bulls are attracted to vivid colors. Bullfighters traditionally use a bright red cloth to attract them. So while bulls cannot see red, they no doubt have some knowledge that color exists. But that knowledge without the ability to clearly sense means that a bull cannot tell what color it is they are seeing, only that a vivid color is there.

As with our faith, we are unable to clearly see spirits, yet we do have some knowledge of them. While many psychics have been proven as frauds, a minority have not been disproved, despite repeated attempts. Dare we, here on ATS, demand that life on other worlds does not exist? I think not. Yet I have never seen an alien. I challenge you to explain the plethora of anecdotal tales of forewarnings from those who avoided catastrophe by not getting on the plane, not taking the trip, etc. Coincidence? Possible, but I feel uncomfortable attributing so much to pure chance. Perhaps if the number of these were far fewer...

Now imagine, if you will, three bulls looking at a cloth and discussing the color of it. One demands that it is red, another yellow, and a third, bright green. Perhaps one of them is right, perhaps not. But all are right that it is a color, just not on which color it is.

As humans in a fleshly body, we, too, tend to argue on those things that we perceive only dimly. All are right in some respect (well, we're discussing people here, so maybe most are right), but none have perfect knowledge. And humans have the habit of arrogance, as anyone who watches the actions of others will soon see clearly. Add the two together and you have religious denominations.

I was raised a strict Southern Baptist. I now attend a Pentecostal church whenever life allows me to. I am neither. I am a Christian. I believe what the Bible says, in it's full divinely-inspired context. And though that belief is now through faith, that wasn't always the case. I proved the Word to myself, on numerous occasions, usually when I was trying to disprove it to remove uncomfortable nagging from my conscience. Now that it is proven to me, I need nothing else to verify it.

But I fear I am the exception in this. To many who are trying to understand the physical and the spiritual simultaneously, the two seem distinct and contradictory. Thusly, they tend to believe the things that appear to them to be 'logical'. Witness the Islamic belief that martyrs receive virgins for their death. This would be torture; all these women and no physical body? I shudder at the thought. Does that mean they must be wrong in all their beliefs? No, it simply means that in an attempt to understand that which they cannot see clearly, they use the things they can see clearly. I think we all do that from time to time.

All this is to say that, even with the best, most impressive list of accomplishments in 'religion', one must understand that the main aspect is spiritual, not physical, and therefore subject to laws which may or may not be those taught in seminaries and synagogues(sp?). Jesus said "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's". Somehow I think He was speaking of more than the simple coin he was holding at the time.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by sizzle
Great find, Saint!
I was unaware of these facts. Somehow in all the mud-slinging against Christians, this gets overlooked. Wonder why?

Christians don't fight back. Not saying they should, just saying that when we lose 100,000+ brothers and sisters, we're told to "love our enemies and pray for those who persecute you". Others start wars.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Saint4God, you are doing an excellent job with this thread and it was very sweet of you to make it for Sizzle.

Cool, thanks! Mighty kind of you to say so.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Not sure why the Borg Team showed up to attack it.

Nothing worth having folds under attack.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Well, of course we know why but maybe one day they'll be mature enough to see a topic they have no interest in and move along. There are millions of other threads on ATS/PTS/BTS, right? Right? Yes, I thought so, too.

As believers, I think we should be encouraging others to test the metal. When you buy a car and go for a test drive, do you drive the car the way the car wants to be driven? A discerning consumer will stomp the breaks, take the high-speed turn and rev the engine. When it passes the rigors of our worst, then we buy.

Originally posted by dave420
I'd like to know why saint4god doesn't believe in Thor or Odin.

This is actually a very good question. I did invite them to the party. B.C. (before Christ) I was hoping for Zeus. At that time I was really big into Greek Mythology and it would naturally make sense to me that one god was in control of the rain, the other the sun, that there were constant conflicts and apathetic involvement with mankid. To me it explained a lot...yet none of my expected guests showed. Someone did show of course and I quickly realized the stupidity of invited the whole block over to destroy my home. (All figures of speech because I don't want to go into details how this went about. I made the mistake of doing so and someone else's life got wrecked. Hopefully he has recovered by now)

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


This is a honest question - I don't mean any offense: are you quite impressionable when it comes to believing things with no supporting evidence? Is it because you find comfort in it being true, and it not being true would do you some emotional harm?

Also, why don't you believe in any of the countless millions of other deities praised around the world? I mean, there's as much evidence for those guys being legit as there is for JC...

[edit on 6/3/08 by dave420]