Proof if there's GOD?

Just because there is (or not) a God has anyone else considered the "sentience" of God?

What if God is instinctual, his sole purpose is creation, it takes no planning or thought, it's "instinctive" to create conditions for life to flourish.

I think we need to divide the term God up a bit, is God THE creator? what made God then?

My personal belief is that God is instinctual, not sentient, It creates the conditions required for life, nothing more

(Yes it was a thought from an Asimov short story)

Originally posted by Incarnated
The Proof isn't out there.


It's In HERE.

Oh my! That is really out there! Ok so, between "HERE" and "there", how much difference is there?

Seriously all that says is one can convince themselves of nonsense so thoroughly that their brain creates "experiences" to buttress their belief. These experiences are always internal and lack any real-world dimension. That is until the believer begins acting out.

The Dark Ages anyone?
The Inquisition anyone?
911 anyone?

reply to post by darcon


Good God! I think you have sinned! First, a one liner, then so much stuff on that site that I would recommend a spigot be installed to turn off your endorphins.

Seriously, I thought I said too much. Thanks for making me look more like the guy I commented.

ZG

reply to post by Clearskies

Just to clarify, I was not referring to the Lucy bones which were australopithecus afarensis, but to australopithecus anamensis which is ancestral to afarensis as indicated by scientific analysis.link

Whether australopithecus afarensis is a direct ancestor of hominids is uncertain, but evidence is there, having teeth smaller than apes and believed to walk upright. Here is africanus, a descendant of afarensis:

Rak and colleagues studied 146 mature primate bone specimens, including those from modern humans, gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans and found that the “ramus element” of the mandible connecting the lower jaw to the skull is like that of the robust forms, therefore eliminating the possibility that Lucy and her kind are Man’s direct ancestors. They should therefore, the Israeli researchers said, “be placed as the beginning of the branch that evolved in parallel to ours.”

This does bring about questions into the anthropology world, but it does currently come down to a matter of opinion. Here is a link for reference.

Originally posted by beastamerica
i apologize for the "negativity" my thread inflicted to those offended.

I hope my posts have not been considered to be negative. If so let me know so I can reform my evil ways.

reply to post by ZeroGhost


Indeed there is a ton of stuff on there. Interesting non the less.

A one liner that has never been done before.

One that Contained Too much

Here is the Actual link,
members.aol.com...
ENJOY!

[edit on 28-2-2008 by darcon]

[edit on 28-2-2008 by darcon]

This thread like so many others starts with the OP asking for proof of Gods exsistance. (instead of searching for it on his own he would rather be spoon fed the info by someone else) At least he puts a disclaimer that he wants proof in video, or photo, etc. type of evidence.

If the cornerstone of believing in God is Faith then wouldnt proof, or the type of evidence the entire world would deem as un-denyable proof then negate the need for faith?

I think many will find the evidence they seek soon enough. There will be a man that will make extrodinary claims (which require extordinary evidence/proof right?) and he will be able to back up his claims with miracles etc.

That same man/entity who will profess himself as God will do alot of good things and eventually bring forth peace and a one world religion and perhaps the NWO.

Maybe you have guessed his name by now but Abbadon/Apollyon the anti-christ will return and proclaim himself as God before Jesus's return to Earth.

Does God exist? Good question.

Well unfortunately the truth is that we'll never know if there is or is not a god up there. For all we know god could be running an experiment or be some sick bastard with a sadistic streak. Or the being we think is god isn't really god at all because he's the other guy. Maybe god is a child and is watching us to learn how to grow up?

If you have ever read the Bible or even the first few pages/chapters in Genisis you see things like God created this then saw that it was good and was pleased. I often wonder if he is omnicesent (all knowing) would he have been suprised what he did was good or was he learning?

Or possibly god is a being of power with no emotions no concept of right or wrong just power. If you think about it. When you have the power to change reality to your liking and create living creatures. After a long time of that you sorta become blasse about things. Maybe god is a creature of pure logic with no emotions. And he's pissed off at everyone in the universe because everyone is acting like a child in his point of view. I guess when you are as old as the universe everyone is a child.

And if you are the creator you can make the rules for your creation (and change them if you want).

Anyways the whole concept of believing in god is totally subjective. For one person belief of god is so tangible that he can taste it. For someone else it's about as real as a fairy tale.

Doesnt this just about sum up the entire discussion?

It's a question of faith. Either you got it or you don't.
And how do you explain or quantify faith?
The reality is that you can't. No more than you could prove that you loved your children or your parents to someone you just met at the airport. He has to have faith that you're not some mad psycho making stuff up.

This statement jumps out at me. How indeed do you quantify faith? The Bible says faith without works is dead. Basically faith is the key but your actions/works are evidence of your faith. Example you say you love your wife but if you hack her up w/ a saw etc. your actions speak louder and more honestly than your words...

Personally I think we are put on this earth to for the following. That's grow up and be the best person you can be and then have children and teach them to be the best person they can be so that they in turn can have children and teach them to be the best people they can be etc. etc. etc.

I think you are partially right. But just being a good person teaching others etc. doesnt cut the mustard so to speak in Christian theology. (without the faith in God and Jesus's sacrafice)

And lastly to nohup I guess I would define God the father as the entity responsible for all of creation. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then he would be the entity that created the first molecules and set in place the right conditions for things to evolve...

reply to post by tnt3kgt


well said sir, not bad for someone who compares bible to an onion
well TNT you kinda sum up the discussion with 2 sentences, that all of this is subjective and we may never reach a conclusion. that's why i hunger for media evidences if there's any, or if it's really necessary.
you mentioned Abbadon/Apollyon, and it's very interesting. i know that name was mentioned a lot of times in the bible, he might be the angel of hell or the name represents a really really bad place, like hell. he might be the villain of this movie starring GOD, and hopefully in the end, the good wins versus the baddies.

i had to edit. if GOD is the Ultimate Creator then he created evil too? why?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by beastamerica]

reply to post by beastamerica


They typical answer will be, so that humans can grow and so he can test our faith.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
nope, the proof doesn't exist.
if there was proof it would be from the people that claim prayer has cured (insert random terminal disease here), yet can never seem to back up their claims

Actually many people have a doctor's verification of their healing, often from the same doctor that diagnosed them. The early Christian Scientists required such proof in order to testify, in all cases, not just ones of terminal illnesses. I believe they don't require that now, although many do have the backup of physicians' statements.

God as I understand Him (or Her) is not the same as another's concept, so in order to have a real debate there must be a defining of terms. I don't believe in every concept of God, and I often agree with the atheists or agnostics on specific points. I'm not sure I'm prepared to debate my concept of God, but actually I feel no need to prove it to others; it satisfies me, that's all I'm concerned about.

reply to post by beastamerica


The why did God create evil question?

Ok answer some questions for me first. And I will answer.


Do you believe there's such a thing as heat?

Do you believe there's such a thing as cold?

The True Face Of God


All life on this planet was genetically engineered by the Elohim. What people see as "evolution" is just evolution in the scientific and artistic progress of those that genetically created us. Man himself will one day be able to create and design life.

reply to post by ThreeNF


-- yeah sure

Sex used to recruit Raelians
Members cruise bars, strip clubs

The Edmonton Sun/October 11, 2003
By Kevin Connor

Former members of the Raelian cult say attractive members of the movement cruise strip clubs and bars looking for lonelyhearts who are offered free sex - and plenty of it - to recruit them into the organization.

"They work the bars and the vulnerable ones are caught," said Steve Hassan, a former Moonie who now helps "deprogram" cult members with the Boston-based organization Freedom of Thought.

"They use free sexuality as inducement and recruiting."

Former Raelian Pete Cooke was recruited into the cult by a dancer in Montreal's Kit Kat strip bar.

source

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Jimbowsk

 

You are a miracle. You're alive. What is life?

Drs and Scientists can't answer that one.

What is the measurable difference when a man dies? he weighs the same...

so what happened? he lost his life... hmmmmm

I love how there's this us vs. them mentality. Because science can't explain it then religion (Christianity to be specific) must be right. How does this make any sense? There are tons of interpretations on life, and just because we cannot grasp it, it does not imply "Christian God", or any god for that matter. Existence is something beyond our understanding, but to say existence is god, it is avoiding the issue rather than attempting to figure it out. That is my only problem with zealots. I don't mind that Christianity exists and people believe in it. My problem is that people would rather adhere to a religion that refers to its own followers as sheep than try to solve the big questions for themselves, then act like they have all the answers. I mean can you prove that Islam is somehow wrong? I mean the Quran has all the proof you need that it is the right religion. Or any religion for that matter.

I mean you talk about the weight of life. That's just ridiculous. Like I said before, it is another one of those concepts that are beyond the physical. That is why there is the subject of metaphysics in philosophy; it is to study these beyond physical concepts and phenomenon. But life still does not imply god, and even more off logically would be the implication of the existence of a Christian God who sits in heaven with Jesus, answering prayers all day, utterly concerned with the inner workings of your everyday life.

And that that hard-drive thing merely correlates life as electrical impulses, if you look at it in a purely physical way (which I do not suggest people do). It is also well known that electrons weigh very little. It's well known that electric impulses is what makes you move and think (though seemingly with free will, which is a huge subject of debate in the realm of metaphysics). However, I do not advocate looking at matters from only a physical perspective, as the physical is only one aspect of it. An analogy for this would be the wavelengths of a musical note versus and the feel of the note.

The only difference between you and a computer is that you have the ability to make decisions that are seemingly more than mere pre-programmed reactions to stimuli. You can call that a miracle, but then again a mouse who does not understand how its supply of fresh water comes in through a tube can call that a miracle too.

Allow me to pose a simple paradox:

First assume that time is one dimensional. What happens happens, and the past cannot be changed. Tim decides to travel back in time to kill his grandfather.

If Tim has what it takes, then he can kill grandfather.
Tim has what it takes.
Therefore Tim can kill grandfather.

If Tim didn't kill grandfather (historically), then he can't kill grandfather.
Tim didn't kill grandfather.
Therefore Tim cannot kill grandfather.

I'm sure neither science nor religion can answer this question suitably. How is it possible that Tim can and cannot kill grandfather at the same time? The answer is certainly not "god did it." Fundamentally, it is the question of determinism vs. free will. Only philosophy is the true path, as science is overly concerned with the physical, while religion (in recent times, specifically Christianity) is overly concerned with dogma. Philosophy to the ancients was the closest one can get to comprehending the divine, and by divine I mean those concepts that are out of reach for the human mind, and the original religions were based upon these concepts. Such a question is, of course, what is life? What is existence? How did the first cause come to be?

Certainly the answer is not simply "god did it," as it avoids the whole issue altogether, because you can literally say that for anything. How does a cell phone work? God.


Oh and there's the classic if god is all powerful, then can he create a boulder so heavy that even he himself cannot lift? If he can't create the boulder then that's a testament to him not bing all powerful, but if he succeeds and cannot lift it, then again it is a testament to him not being all powerful. There's a response to this issue but I don't remember what it is. I'm just putting the idea out there.

Again, don't get me wrong, I am not an atheist. In my opinion, atheists are not seeing the big picture, and Christians are just not seeing the picture at all, but believe that they do. No offense

Also, I don't see how because Christians claim and attempt to represent themselves to have great moral character have anything to do with the validity of their claims.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by italkyoulisten]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

-- yeah sure

Sex used to recruit Raelians
Members cruise bars, strip clubs

The Edmonton Sun/October 11, 2003
By Kevin Connor

Former members of the Raelian cult say attractive members of the movement cruise strip clubs and bars looking for lonelyhearts who are offered free sex - and plenty of it - to recruit them into the organization.

"They work the bars and the vulnerable ones are caught," said Steve Hassan, a former Moonie who now helps "deprogram" cult members with the Boston-based organization Freedom of Thought.

"They use free sexuality as inducement and recruiting."

Former Raelian Pete Cooke was recruited into the cult by a dancer in Montreal's Kit Kat strip bar.

source

What's wrong with sex? Hopefully people will realize one day that sex is nothing more than physical play, and not something that should only be done with some person you "love", but antiquated religious values make people stupid.

If you read Rael's book you'll see that the Elohim enjoy sex, and plenty of it. We really must thank them for providing us with the ability to experience such pleasure!

[edit on 28-2-2008 by ThreeNF]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


big the answer to your two questions are obviously yes and yes. and yes, i would like you to answer the why did GOD made evil question sir.

reply to post by italkyoulisten


I think life implies a creator. DNA contains information. Who put it in there?

I don't claim to know how. But it obviously to complex and purposeful to be an

accident. That's the point. I don't need to know how. No Christian pretends to

know it all. In my experience, most people will not believe because they do not

want to be accountable for their actions.

to the OP,if your faith was waivering you wouldnt be even asking for help with your faith,so do not worry-you will find your way.as for all this debate on God on whatnot,there is no way to prove or disprove(in our current form of exsistance)and how can you attempt to even try to understand why an entity such as God would create life-he(it) is on a level of undestanding and being that we wil and can never reach.so therefor it is impossible to understand.

reply to post by beastamerica


First one is right. Second one is wrong.

Ok there is such a thing as heat. It is energy we can add heat infinitely.

There is no such "thing" as cold. Cold is simply the absence of heat. There is

a finite bottom that will never get "colder"−273.15 °C = 0 Kelvin.

Consider :::

God is love.

Evil is the absence of Love.

The absence of God is evil.

So God didn't create evil. Man did when he rejected Gods plan by disobedience.

Rejecting God created "evil". But it's not really a thing... get it?

actually bigwammey there is such a thing as "cold"it is when particles slow down relative to an ambiant state.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Really? I see it the other way. People that don't believe are held accountable as themselves with nothing to fall back on. People who believe have their faith to fall back on.