Proof if there's GOD?, page 4


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reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 04:13 AM by johnnyrobbo
reply to post by Bigwhammy



Thanks mate I'm gunna read it
but really that raygun toy looks nothing like Billy had. Anyway I'm off to read seeya.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 06:50 AM by Lokey13
hey beastamerica great post, I don't know if it was your intention to make a bunch of religious cooks look rediculous but it's seemed to have payed off. I always love the answers you get when you ask this sort of question, your "told" and never quite given an option; to believe in God blindly and have faith. That statement right there is enough to get me to question the matter, that and the fact that every religion; as man made it religion: are all highly hypocritical: one and only principle that i'll name and is found in about every book; though shalt not kill, from crusades to car bombings I don't quite think anyone is listening to that. Well my take on religion is simple, all religions are wrong, made by man so therefor faulable on the premiss that man is imperfect. That doesn't necessarilly mean that I don't believe in an after life cause I do, only because the laws of science have not yet found a nothing behind our universe edge. I do believe in the theory constant in science now a days that states that we have multiple universes, so I think energy; since it cannot be created nor destroyed, has a free roam in this sphere of intergalactic and static electricity. Maybe if your like me you can rejoice in Ensteins theory and possible find a little nook where you can be comfortable in knowing that not ever part of your soul can die. Hopefully i've stated something relivant thanks for anyone and everyones time.

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reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 07:22 AM by theukman
I am not a very religous person but still, I think we are looking too hard for god, As I said I am not a religous person and not going to "Quote" texts but it is said that we are made in the image of our lord. Are we looking needlessly for something else, This thread has really got me thinking.

Are all the answers right infront of us but we helplessly look past them? Evolution does not answer the question for me, If it is so and we did evolve from monkeys why did they stop evolving? Why do they still walk our planet to this day? Why has the missing link not been found? The teory of evolution raises as many questions as the theory of god does.

If we were made in the image of god then the people we see everyday are god, But the haze that is infront of us doesnt let us see that as we seek more proof. If god did make us he made us with free will which leaves no gap for divine intervention. Considering every action has a reaction nearly everything will sprout from free will.

Maybe the story of adam and eve are is just that, A story. But if it was just made up the person who made it up was on the right wave length, Free will led to the eating of the forbidden fruit that cursed mankind with pain and suffering. Every decision we make, makes a differnce, Leads us a bit further down a differnt path in our lives. I bet there are many people here if not all who think to themselve, I wish I had not have said that or I wish I had not have done that. But that is the choice you made from your own free will and whatever happened afterwards why would god get involved? Surely that would be messing with your own free will.

So maybe god does exist, Maybe he doesnt. Maybe he created us in his image, gave us the tools to do whatever we want (our brains), Gave us free will then sat back and watched his creation grow, Knowing he cannot diectly get involved but getting messengers to try and guide us and point us in the right right direction. Maybe there is alien life, Just another of gods settlement another life form he created to see what path that civilisation will take.

So what I am trying to say is start looking a little closer to home for god, When things happen think to yourself could something different have happened? If I had done something differently would that something else have happened? We first need to answer the smaller questions in life before we try looking to higher places for the answers, Because if there is a god he will not guide you himself. Why? because it is up to your own free will to believe or not.

Let me just finish by letting you know I am not a educated person by no means ( as you may tell by my grammer, But I do try my best) I make my "bread with my hands. I have never read the bile or any other texts, So if there are any major mistakes in my point then this is due to my own ignorance. Nearly everything I have writen here I have taken from my own thoughts whilst typing, So please dont use it in either direction to make your own decisions in life then blame me .


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 07:42 AM by Kanati
reply to post by Bigwhammy


I recommend you sitting across from a chimp and look into his eyes, you'll see humanity in them I guarantee it. All species have evolved over the years, so why not us humans. At least science offers some sort of evidence for what it claims, religious institutions offer nothing but "Because we believe you should also." It comes down to whether you a FAITH that what you're being told is BULLSH*T or not. Choice is yours.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 07:53 AM by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Kanati



If we evolved over millions of year from monkeys like you believe then where

are the the in between species? There are none. Evolutionists have

desperately searched for the "missing link" and it's still missing. Gradual

evolution would have left lots of evidence. Instead heres a hug jump in the

fossil record. You've been lied too. You're not a chimp.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 08:02 AM by grey580
Originally posted by SteveAndrew




You're completely right. Although there is sufficient knowledge that evolution is wrong and Creation is right, you have to have faith to at least choose a God.

How I chose my religion is by looking at the people around me. My parents are Catholic while I am a Evangelical Christian. Sure, the Catholicism religion is the biggest but so is Islam. Then you have to look at the CONTENT of the religion to SEE what they actually teach.

Sometimes people are to blind (metaphorically) too see the plain honest truth!

I disagree, there is a REASON why there is the religions there are on the TERRE (anybody parle Francais?)

And lastly Grey; your right! If you were a believer in my God you would find that is exactly what He teaches and if do decide to follow Us, then you're life would be full of wisdom, knowledge, and would less painful because God has explained everything already; knowing that we would commit the same mistake and saving us the hassles. That's not to say we aren't going to have difficulties!



wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Creationism does not disprove evolution.

Creationism and Evolution are the same thing.
Unfortunately most of the people espousing creationism are too wrapped up in dogma to see that it's the same thing.

Creationism is the explanation of how it was done.
Evolution is the explanation through forensic research.

In the end you will see that evolution will prove the existence of god. Well at least that's my take on things. And that proof will be a long time in comming.

I have to run but I'm gonna post later today a bit more about creationism and why I think they are both right and wrong at the same time.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 08:30 AM by yahn goodey
reply to post by beastamerica



i assume that you believe that gravity/magnetism/atomic radiation/electromagnetic radiation/electric current/inertia/atoms/wind/black holes/many gases/laws of thermodynamics/etc.------exist ?-----but they are invisible

all we see is their effects----not them---in like manner G-D chooses to remain invisible for now.

G-D has had enough of being around the lawless ones-----so They are giving us what we want----the majority of humans want G-D to stay out of their buisness.

for those that seek after G-D by prayer and keeping Their laws there is help given thru angels and G-D's Holy spirit but-----

no worldwide intervention of G-D's return and help is prophesied until the wars we fight get to the point of annihilating all life on earth.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 08:44 AM by ejsaunders
I've said in many threads that I didn't believe and in fact, quite hated God many times in my life, and I've been through the mill of religions, but for some reason, various things keep bringing me back to Christianity like there were little signs that I failed to notice.

Now, I can't share any of these things in video or picture form, and to be honest, many of them may seem VERY trivial to some, particularly those who have hardened their hearts and minds to the belief in God, and I'm perefectly fine with that - I'm of the opinion that God will FIND YOU, not the other way around, and he doesn't give up easily, he sort of leaves you post-it notes for the soul if you will that are sometimes rather vague, sometimes rather personal, but ALL of them are to prove he exists if you can find them and that you take them at face value.

I think it has to do with free will, and thats why I don't try and convert, I only offer people advice based on my life and experiences, I won't start spouting scripture or take you to a church (because I don't believe in churches either but thats not the point). If you believe, you will believe regardless, and while your faith my at times be very tested, He knows ultimately whether you are on His side or not and so maybe some people don't ever get the chance more than once to hear the message, but I'm guessing, I doubt He would be that cruel (I DON'T believe in the view of Hell as prescribed by some, I belive it should be translated grave not insane fundamentalist/overbearing church doctrine to make you behave lake of napalm that is only intended for Ha'Satan and his legion more than the common man).

So, the little signs are what I think he does to make you think "Pfft, thats just a coincidence" you either believe them or not, as its called 'faith' not 'ultimate fact'. For example, I became rather ill and that made me seriously hate God (I have never been well, I was given up on by doctors when I was born since they rated my chances so slim, but I'm still here) since I lost my job, I felt a total faliure, etc and I hated not contributing, having to rely on others, I like independance and self-sufficiency.

However, I met the woman that I will I hope one day marry and the only woman I can honestly say I will ever love truly because of the circumstances I was in, so I actually saw the good that came out of the situation rather than dwell on the bad. Her name? 'God's Gift' - coincidence, probably, but to me it made me feel that strange feeling, that total love that some people talk about when they mention God and I knew then it was intended. Even coincidences can be beneficial.

There've been plenty more incidents like that trough my life that could be put down to probably nothing, but they have always turned me back to Him and that I can't ignore - that while I've never seen any angels personally, there have been plenty of times when I've felt so low I could have given up, but something's come along to make me change my mind and has changed it so much that I can't even remotely consider giving up anymore no matter how bad my illness gets or how I feel down in life.

The true miracles are those that noone sees but you - the people who love their kids, the people who stay married for 90 years and never loose interest, the simple things that surround us - to some that is proof, to others they are just interesting or sometimes even 'uncool' and 'soppy love crap'.

Belief works both ways unfortunately, and if he doesn't believe in you, how can you believe in Him.



reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 09:00 AM by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ejsaunders



That was a great testimony. I gave you a star!

My story is similar, I didn't find him - he found me - in spite of myself.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 09:47 AM by italkyoulisten
Originally posted by Christian Voice
Alright, here's my thoughts on this:
It has been determined that if the Earth was any closer to the sun or to the moon then it could not sustain the life that it does. The gases in our air are all independently poisonous for us to breathe, yet they are perfectly mixed every second of every day for us to breathe. If our bodies just stop breathing then we die. Yet everything in our world is held in perfect check every day and we life the lives that we do. Waaaayyyyyy too many coincidences for my taste. Too many coincidences that we as humans just decided one day to grow lungs, grow legs and arms and walk out of the water and stand upright and invent Starbucks and sit around and drink coffee. Something has to be behind all of it as far as I'm concerned. That's just too many chance occurances. If Christians are wrong about God and Jesus, then we have lost nothing. If Christians are right, we've gained eternity. It's not a gamble I'm willing to take.


Well actually, because there is coincidence does not imply a planned creation process. Earth just happened to be the lucky planet not too far, not too close to the sun. It is only because you are alive that you can reflect on this, and you are alive because of this. If it were Saturn instead of Earth that had the conditions that sustained life, there would be life on it wondering the same thing, thinking themselves special. Tell me why your Christian god would care at all about what goes on in a tiny blue speck of stardust on the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy when there's a whole universe to look after? Earth was lucky to have life, but I'm pretty positive that at this same moment that we are existing, there exists at least one other place in this universe where other lifeforms exist because the conditions allow it. I also believe that life adapts to the environment rather than the other way around.

But don't get me wrong, I do believe in a higher power, a higher order of things. I don't think of "god" as the proverbial old man in the sky but rather the beyond-physical concepts that exists outside of our world, namely energy, consciousness, infinity, etc. We also can't prove any of these things exist. For example, energy is assumed to exist because things somehow move and it works in equations. Ancient concepts of god were usually encoded with metaphysical concepts and esoteric knowledge, such as Duality, the three-fold nature of existence (the trinity), and so on. However, Christianity is merely a desecrated and monopolized version of a once great cult (gnosticism) and is devoid of most of its original teachings. It appeals to emotions and feelings and promotes irrational groupthink. I suggest for those of you who believe in a higher power (like I do) to go out and figure it out for yourselves rather than having an organization tell you what to believe.

By the way, you are right that if we stop breathing then we would die. Therefore, god must exist right? If p then q therefore w? Sounds like a pretty sound argument to me.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 09:53 AM by finnegan
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
If we evolved over millions of year from monkeys like you believe then where are the the in between species? There are none. Evolutionists have desperately searched for the "missing link" and it's still missing. Gradual evolution would have left lots of evidence. Instead heres a hug jump in the fossil record. You've been lied too. You're not a chimp.



These are fragments of Australopithecus anamensis, a common ancestor (missing link) of chimpanzee and human. Anthropologists are continually searching for more evidence to the fossill record of our planet, that does not mean they are trying to prove evolution is real, but that they are sincerely curious about our history.


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 10:09 AM by Clearskies
That is NOT an intermediate species, but you won't see it from most Evolutionists.

Connecting imaginary human evolution
Conclusion

Nothing has emerged from this recent discovery that is inconsistent with the notion that this is just one more member of the group of extinct ape-like primates known as australopithecines, and that it is possibly even the same species as the famous ‘Lucy’. As has been demonstrated by top-level evolutionist anatomist Dr Charles Oxnard,20 the evidence has always strongly supported the idea that the australopithecines were not on any line leading to humans, even for those who accept this possibility. See ‘Lucy’ isn’t the ‘Missing Link’!



Lucy Bites The Dust

r. 16, 2007 0:21 | Updated Apr. 16, 2007 15:39
Israeli researchers: ‘Lucy’ is not direct ancestor of humans
By JUDY SIEGEL-ITZKOVICH

Tel Aviv University anthropologists say they have disproven the theory that “Lucy” - the world-famous 3.2-million-year-old Australopithecus afarensis skeleton found in Ethiopia 33 years ago - is the last ancestor common to humans and another branch of the great apes family known as the “Robust hominids.”

The specific structure found in Lucy also appears in a species called Australopithecus robustus. Prof. Yoel Rak and colleagues at the Sackler School of Medicine’s department of anatomy and anthropology wrote, “The presence of the morphology in both the latter and Australopithecus afarensis and its absence in modern humans cast doubt on the role of [Lucy] as a common ancestor.”

The robust hominids were discovered in southern Africa 69 years ago and are believed to have lived between 2 million and 1.2 million years ago. Their jaws and jaw muscles were adapted to the dry environment in which they lived.

Rak and colleagues studied 146 mature primate bone specimens, including those from modern humans, gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans and found that the “ramus element” of the mandible connecting the lower jaw to the skull is like that of the robust forms, therefore eliminating the possibility that Lucy and her kind are Man’s direct ancestors. They should therefore, the Israeli researchers said, “be placed as the beginning of the branch that evolved in parallel to ours.”

Their research has just been published in the on-line edition of PNAS, the Proceedings of the [US] National Academy of Sciences.

Lucy, which means “you are wonderful” in Amharic, was discovered (40 percent of its skeleton) by the International Afar Research Expedition in Ethiopia’s Awash Valley. Fitting the bones together, they said it was an upright walking hominid (Homo sapiens, which comprises modern Man and extinct manlike species). They later found its jaws and additional bones.

Further analysis led the Afar researchers to believe it was of a female, and the skeleton listed as AL 288-1 was nicknamed Lucy because the Beatles’ song “Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds” was often played at the camp.

The specimen was only 1.1 meters tall, estimated to weigh 29 kilograms and look somewhat like a common chimpanzee. Although it had a small brain, the pelvis and leg bones were almost identical in function with those of modern humans, proving that these hominids had walked erect.

Although fossils closer to chimpanzees have been found since then, Lucy - which is housed in the national museum in Addis Ababa - is prized by anthropologists who study Man’s origin.

Rak and his colleagues also wrote that the structure of Lucy’s mandibular ramus closely matches that of gorillas, which was “unexpected” because chimpanzees are the closest living relatives of humans, and not gorillas.



[edit on 28-2-2008 by Clearskies]


reply posted on 28-2-2008 @ 10:32 AM by laughable3
reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR



Guess that's why the divorce rate is higher among believers, because believers are always much happier. I know I would be thinking that some "god" was always watching what I was doing waiting to banish me to hell for the smallest things.
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