Religion is the great evil of mankind.

Originally posted by darkelf
Religion is not evil. Religion is only a concept. It is mankind who is and always will be evil. They will use religion, politics, business, race or anything else they can think of to gain their selfish desires. Stop blaming the symptom and focus on the problem.

Oh I think we all can agree with the exception of "incarnate".

He doesn't seem to be able to wrap his brain around that one or he really IS the "Chosen one" (at least he seems to think so).

Rather then argue with people that seem to have the same aspirations as David Koresh, Ill bid you all a good night, I haven't been able to get this guy to answer ONE question with anything but more diatribe.

Every time I ask one I get ten more unsubstantiated personal opinions, ten more completely erroneous suppositions.


Warm Regards

- Con








[edit on 24-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by Conspiriology


Please, by all means speculate. I mean that's a big slogan I always hear "What would Jesus do?". How bout that Jesus? Think he'd be a big fan of capitalism?


Religion is a big problem because very few actually care about what their religion is really about. Think about what it truly means to be a christian. do you really see 2 billion people out there that fit that mold?

The only person who's argumentative here is you. I feel you only want to be right, rather than stand up for what is right.

[edit on 24-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

Please, by all means speculate. I mean that's a big slogan I always hear "What would Jesus do?". How bout that Jesus? Think he'd be a big fan of capitalism? Religion is a big problem because very few actually care about what their religion is really about. Think about what it truly means to be a christian. do you really see 2 billion people out there that fit that mold? The only person who's argumentative here is you. I feel you only want to be right, rather than stand up for what is right.

I got an Idea,, why don't you quit asking for speculation about me and whether or not I think I am right or not because whether you think I am or not is none of my business.

The only person who's argumentative here is you.

Did you get that from reading the entire thread or just because you can't post anything more then sophomoric sarcasm?

When you say by all means speculate, sets the precedent that YOU in fact will accept hearsay as proof "prima facie". That would explain NOT why I am right but rather why YOU will always continue to be WRONG.


If you want to know what Jesus would think,,



TRY PRAYING AND ASKING HIM YOURSELF!

Nighty Night

- Love Con

wow. this thread still going? You know something, since I posted that thread about god, religion seems to be the hot topic around here. I used to get upset about the religion trashers, but not anymore. I guess it's cool around here to bash on religion..so I'll stay away from it for a while.

reply to post by Conspiriology


Can't help but sense resentment from your posts. I'm just asking you what you think Jesus would think of the world and the state it's in, a world where 2 billion people claim to be his "followers". I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

You don't want to speculate, fine. How about answering these questions:

What did Jesus stand for?

Should Jesus's "followers" stand for the same thing? and if so, do they?

Simple enough questions to answer. I'd find it rather interesting if you'd refuse to answer questions now after much complaining about someone else refusing to answer questions.

reply to post by ThePiemaker


Why does supposedly smart people constantly spew blanket statements that are obviously false if anyone takes the time to look?
It's almost like they believe that everyone except them and those that agree with them are zombies. Must be nice to be able to fool ones self into believing that that.

This sir is a blanket statement and obviously false.

Religion is a big problem because very few actually care about what their religion is really about. Think about what it truly means to be a christian. do you really see 2 billion people out there that fit that mold?

And I might add I haven't met 2 billion people and probly wont in my life time even if I live the max possible.

Originally posted by darkelf
Religion is not evil. Religion is only a concept. It is mankind who is and always will be evil. They will use religion, politics, business, race or anything else they can think of to gain their selfish desires. Stop blaming the symptom and focus on the problem.

I wasn't talking about some dark force people imagine is running things behind the sceenes.

I'm talking on a personalized spiritual level. A child, an inosent sent gets sucked into religion so that they will not go to "hell". they lose track of what the real spiritual walk is and fester in the illusion of spirituality that is called religion.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


So is that like a double post or did you just post it again to get me to respond?

Think about what I said. You don't have to meet two billion people. It's about realizing what Jesus stood for, and what his followers should be standing for as well. And if they were, things would be a whole lot different. Why don't they? What sacrifice is too great for those who claim to have faith?

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

I'm just asking you what you think Jesus would think of the world and the state it's in, a world where 2 billion people claim to be his "followers". I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

Let us not forget that in among those who wish to call themselves "followers" of Jesus, they are broken into several religions each religion thinking the other followers of the same Jesus don't have it "right" and therefore they are the "rightious chuch". Followers that go around thinking "everyone else" needs be "saved" when the one's souls who are at most perrel are those that paint the illusion they are "saved" because they took a bath and miss some sport shows on a day off.

reply to post by Incarnated


They're too busy worrying about the color of the shirt rather than the fiber that it's made out of.

reply to post by ThePiemaker


You're a masterful vailed refrence maker.



Holy Miss Moly, oh we have a live one here.

Boy do we have holier than thou taken to all new levels of absurdity going on.
I mean COME ON. Take a step back and look what you two are preaching and very few are buying except the some Atheists who agree with you but go a step farther in believing YOU are evil as well.

Your preaching intolerance and spewing holier than thou crap left and right.

You have been UNABLE to refute intelligably anyone saying it's just a concept not the source of evil, you just pile on more gross generalizations and repeat the same old ones over and over and over again.

GENERALIZATIONS NEVER WORK ON THINGS AS COMPLEX AS GROUPS OF PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Not all black people are gangsta.
Not all white people can't dance.
I hope you get the idea.
And not every religious person is a morally dead drone.
Thusly your theory.
IS FALSE!

Not that I expect this statement will end the stupid circles we are going in but at least I said it and am now done. And you have a sense of righteousness to feed. Or were you expecting to found a not-a-church-church?

Sorry but people are damn frustrating at times.

reply to post by ThePiemaker

It's almost like they believe that everyone except them and those that agree with them are zombies. Must be nice to be able to fool ones self into believing that that.

That pretty much sums up the answer and I don't feel like typing it out again.
If you can't understand what I am getting at thats your problem.



[edit on 24-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by jdposey

 

What is this "Pure Religion" asside from your religions of bullslnit?

The only thing that can make religion pure, in a nutshell, would be LOVE and SELFLESSNESS: two of the most complicated things for man to lay hold of. Unfortunately, we are living in a time where only the form of Godliness ( the shell of religion) exists and with most, love and selflessness has gone by the wayside.

But know this, that in the last days perilous( fierce and dangerous) times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (II Timothy 3:1-5)

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

Can't help but sense resentment from your posts. I'm just asking you what you think Jesus would think of the world and the state it's in, a world where 2 billion people claim to be his "followers". I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

You don't want to speculate, fine. How about answering these questions:

What did Jesus stand for?

Should Jesus's "followers" stand for the same thing? and if so, do they?

Simple enough questions to answer. I'd find it rather interesting if you'd refuse to answer questions now after much complaining about someone else refusing to answer questions.

Don't flatter yourself piemonk,, I think if you have questions you should get behind me in line because I STILL haven't seen ONE of mine answered yet. NOT ONE, your argument is with incarnate not me. If you expect to get answers in a thread you feel the need to support its creator, then I suggest you start telling him to answer the litany of questions he has yet to provide. You seem to be making the same mistake yourself asking for speculation AGAIN. This tells me this entire argument about Religion is baseless predicated entirely on bad attitudes and mis-directed anger or blame on Religion. Religion doesn't care what you think. It isn't a THING that has the capacity to know anything ONLY THE PEOPLE IN IT CAN.

THAT IS THE POINT I AND MANY OTHERS HERE ARE TRYING TO GET YOU TO UNDERSTAND. You want to change Religion? Try changing yourself.

Then the whole world will be better off.

- Con

[edit on 24-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by Incarnated

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

I'm just asking you what you think Jesus would think of the world and the state it's in, a world where 2 billion people claim to be his "followers". I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

That is NOT my statement to make sure everyone knows, I came here because the thread makes claims I wish to have understood with facts that can be supported by more then diatribe, I have no point of view when you insist on asking me for speculation.

I asked YOU to prove one JUST ONE of the many outrageuous claims you are making and you have failed to do it. I am not here to add cannon fodder to your trumped up allegations about religion until you have something substantive, we have nothing more to discuss.

By th way,, you and I are DONE I am obviously in a dialogue with someone who has NO intention of EVER getting around to answering my questions much less substantiate a single thing he has said.

I may as well be speaking to a box of rocks at this point. The only thing I regret is that Ill never get back the time I wasted trying to get an answer from you.

My advice:

Know what you are talking about and be able to support your claims with something, ANYTHING, as long as they are not more claims to add on top of the un-answered ones.

You are being ignored with the sound advice that all should do the same who expect to get involved in this thread and expect an answer. That goes for your allies like Pie, who I would have loved to debate but until I get my answers his will just have to wait. I can live with that just fine.

Oh and don't get into what you think about us here,, I think we are ALL entitled to be a scandalous bit ticked off with this thread and its reticent creator incarnate.


BE ADVISED: Don't waste peoples time incarnate,,

it's just Rude and

inconsiderate.



- Con





[edit on 24-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

And Incarnate I refer you to a previous post OF YOURS in another thread.

THAT is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen said on these boards. I believe you truly need to do a little soul searching to gain understanding as to the origin of hate.

Religion has nothing to do with the hate that exists in the world and only a fool would think such a thing. If all religion was wiped away you really believe all hate would be too?

Hate is a dirivitive of the animalistic nature within mankind driving it to get into groups as packs. "Whites", "Blacks", "Gays","Emos","Headbanggers","rockers","Jocks",Preppies....

It starts in highschool or before. It has nothing to do with religion.

And then you go and contradict yourself in this fracus of a thread.
What happened?

After reading the posts here over the last couple of days, a vision comes to mind of a group of old keesters standing around the library, pipes dangling from their mouths, while arguing about the idea of the earth being flat or not. lol No insult intended. But come on, what is the general consenses here? Is religion the great evil of mankind or not? I believe that was the original topic of this thread. So far it seems to be a debate about Christianity vs Atheism. I personally think in order to come to an intelligent conclusion on this subject, we need to look at other religions. I may not know as much as you all do, but I know that there are religions out there that encourage free thinking, private worship, and encourage their followers to obtain wisdom and knowledge. Buhdism for one. I believe there is good and evil in all things, religion included, and everything is subject to change by the choices we make. So do you think we could bring this topic around to it's original question? Religion (not Christianity or Atheism) is the great evil of mankind?

Originally posted by chromatico
reply to post by enchantress62

 

Wow, now that is downright venemous. Could you be specific about why exactly you believe such sinister impulses were behind the birth of Christianity?

Sorry to take so long to answer your question, but I haven't had a lot of time to participate in this debate, however I think this will clarify my position for you. I am highlighting a couple of paragraghs from the following link for you, just for your convenience, however you can read all information provided from the link below it.

330 CE: Emperor Constantine decided to build a "New Rome" on the site of the Greek city of Byzantium (now at Istanbul, Turkey). It was called Constantinople. It became the center of the largely Christian empire. 5 By this time, the church had evolved from a small, scattering of congregations to a geographically widespread church under the authority of many bishops.
341 CE: Many now believe that Christianity became the dominant religion of the Empire through the evangelical efforts of the early church during the fourth century CE. The evidence seems to show that this is not true; "The Greek-Roman world was not...converted to a new religion, but compelled to embrace it." The Emperor Theodosian issued a series of decrees or rescripts in the years 341, 345, 356, 381, 383, 386 and 391 CE. They effect of these orders was to "suppress all rival religions, order the closing of the temples, and impose fines, confiscation, imprisonment or death upon any who cling to the older [Pagan] religions." 2 The period of relative religious tolerance in the Roman Empire ended as Pagan temples were seized and converted to Christian use or destroyed. Priests and Priestesses were exiled or killed. Christianity and Judaism became the only permitted religions. In Spain, bishop Priscillian, who taught some Gnostic beliefs was the first person to be condemned as a heretic and executed by his fellow Christians on religious grounds. The church used the power of the state to begin programs to oppress, exile or exterminate both Pagans and Gnostic Christians. By the end of the century, Pagan temples had been either destroyed or recycled for Christian use. Pagan worship became punishable by death. But government toleration was not without its cost. The Emperor Constantine and later political rulers demanded a major say in the running of the church and in decisions on its beliefs.

www.religioustolerance.org...

So I stand by my position that if we are going to talk about Christianity being the great evil of mankind, then yes I agree. But to say Religion is the great evil of mankind, well that I would have to disagree with. There are a lot of religions out there that don't force ppl to bend to it's will, but as you can see from it's beginning, Christianity has taken a strong arm in forcing ppl to conform or die. Is that the fault of the religion it's self? I don't believe so, but the men exsecuting it's principles defenantly have evil intent. I know of no other religion including Radical Islaim that has massacured as many ppl in the name of God! Do you deny this?

Wide is the gate of destruction. The real evil parodies all good truths.

Gods supposed country is anything but. "Who can make war against the beast?".

I AM exists and the principle of Yeshua exists and are truth.