Who really thinks hydrazine is why gov wants to take spy sat out?

Zaphod58. I am a bit confused why your rebuttal of getting Atlantis down because it 'was 60 miles below ISS orbit' was followed up with 'this orbit is out of control and all over the place'.
Strange.
It, of course being the soon to be oblivioned 'spy sat'.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by jpm1602]

Uhm, because the orbits DO cross each other, and because it IS wildly erratic. It was SUPPOSED to be in a stable orbit, along the same path every two days. It's going all over the place. If they shoot when Atlantis and the ISS are near it, there's a chance the debris from the impact will endager them, or hit Atlantis. You can have orbits that cross, even when one of them is wildly erratic.

I can understand that explanation to an extent. Space is a big place. Overlapping tradgetory is always a given. But, we have capability to track the size of a basketball (Norad) to within millimeters. I just don't see the logic.

The more I think about this the more I believe this is a weapons platform. More than likely alien reverse engineered. And our country doesn't want anyone elses mitts on. IMHO.
Perhaps Reagan was right, there are alien entities that like to mutilate cows and abduct people. Prayers out for Nancy, she suffered a bad fall tonite.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by jpm1602]

reply to post by jpm1602

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They have an 11 day window to take the shot. Why NOT wait for the shuttle to come home before hand, just to be on the safe side. Tracking is vastly different from being able to do something. All they'd be able to do is track the debris as it went towards the Atlantis and tell them when it was going to hit.

You may well be right Zaphod53. It's just the consperiator in me. I think something is not right with this situation, and china and russia are doing handstands now.

There are two broad possibilities;

1.) You believe the government

2.) You do NOT believe the government.

If 1.) is true, then there is no discussion.

If 2.) is true, however, then you have to suspect EVERYTHING that the government says about this. Why would you believe everything that the government told you about 193, as to its purpose, mission, condition, etc. if you don't believe the reason that they want to shut it down.

OK, so let's just say we don't believe the reason for shooting it down. Then maybe it is NOT a spy satellite. Maybe it was NEVER meant to do the things they said- in other words, it was not a surveillance satellite. In fact, maybe the ONLY mission was to act as a "TARGET" for the missile defense system. HOWEVER, there was something on board that makes it more than a TARGET, a SELF-DESTRUCT mechanism, that can be activated when a missile gets within a distance that looks to be a "hit" by radar and tracking, a self destruct mechanism that will make it look like our missile defense system REALLY does work, even though it doesn't hit the broad side of a barn.
Now of course, this is just a theory, mind you, but remember the Patriot missiles during Gulf War 1? What better way to get the Russians and Chinese to concede points during negotiations than to "PROVE" that the missile defense system is operational.
Just a fun theory, however. We're from the government, and we wouldn't do that now, would we?

reply to post by favouriteslave

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Uses for beryllium

* Due to its stiffness, light weight, and dimensional stability over a wide temperature range, Beryllium metal is used in the defense and aerospace industries as light-weight structural materials in high-speed aircraft, missiles, space vehicles, and communication satellites. For example, many high-quality liquid fueled rockets use nozzles of pure Be, an example being the Saturn V.
* Beryllium is used as an alloying agent in the production of beryllium copper, which contains up to 2.5% beryllium. Beryllium-copper alloys are used in a wide variety of applications because of their combination of high electrical and thermal conductivity, high strength and hardness, nonmagnetic properties, along with good corrosion and fatigue resistance. These applications include the making of spot-welding electrodes, springs, non-sparking tools and electrical contacts.
* In the telecommunications industry, tools made of beryllium are used to tune the highly magnetic klystrons used for high power microwave applications.
* Beryllium copper is used in electrical spring contacts.
* Beryllium is used in the making of gyroscopes, computer equipment, watch springs and instruments where light-weight, rigidity and dimensional stability are needed.
* The James Webb Space Telescope[6] will have 18 hexagonal beryllium sections for its mirrors. Because JWST will face a temperature of −240 degrees Celsius (33 kelvins), the mirror is made of beryllium, a material capable of handling extreme cold better than glass. Beryllium contracts and deforms less than glass — and thus remains more uniform — in such temperatures. For the same reason, the optics of the Spitzer Space Telescope are entirely built of beryllium metal.
* Beryllium has been used in tweeter and mid-range audio loudspeaker construction as an alternative to titanium and aluminium, largely due to its lower density and greater rigidity.


Respectfully
GEO

I don't understand the theory of the US using this as an opportunity to "flex it's muscles" by shooting it down. I think the entire world has a pretty good idea of what the US is capable of. China even recently shot down a satellite, so I don't know why anyone would think that the US isn't capable of it.

Early in this process, the US has already said that the Hydrazine is not really a concern so I don't think that is the reason either.

So that leaves me with only 2 other possibilities:

1: Destroy it to keep anyone from learning what it was really used for (both foreign and domestic).

2: They have a better idea of where it will hit than they are letting on and know that it stands a good chance of hitting a populated area.

I really think it is #1. If it were #2, I think they would just come out and say it. Although I can also understand why they would want to cover it up, to avoid accountability in case of loss of life.

If beryllium is so benign and widely used in these type of satalites then why would they even bring it up about the beryllium if it wasn't in quatnities that could be harmful?

Hydrazine, berryllium? What will be the next 'story'.

My take is a combination of points brought up in this thread:

1. One allegedly has a good amount of hydrazine that'd be kinda inconvenient to have land in some nice place like Central LA or the D.C. Mall;

2. One has God-knows-what on this satellite, things our boys clearly don't want getting into ANYone's hands;

3. Considering #2, it'd be very prudent for the satellite to have a self-destruct mechanism;

4. One has a good opportunity, along with technical and political reasons, to test a satellite shoot-down, and #3 lets you fake it if the test doesn't work.

Whatever the real reasons are, there seems to be a pretty good convergence of factors.

What about everything we reverse engineered from Roswell????

reply to post by traderonwallst

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You're supposed to be confused. That is the government's whole point. But don't worry, we're from the government , and we're here to help you.

You're supposed to be confused. You betcha. Oh man you betcha.

I see your point but what do you mean? Reverse engineering the remains after it crashed? If the satellite's orbit was to degrade to the point of reentry, until it finally did so, not a whole lot would be left for anyone to get a hold of. The exact crash site, although currently unknown perhaps, would likely be the ocean itself leaving little to no evidence it was ever there. If it lands somewhere in a foreign country they have a bunch of molten fuzed metal to toss in a landfill somewhere. Almost all else would be pretty much incinerated or otherwise destroyed by the impact. It is possible that some type of analysis could eventually confirm the country of origin and/or what it actually was. But why would a country take the time to reverse engineer something that you can't benefit technologically from?

I saw, with my own eyes, what was later believed to have been a russian rocket fall through the sky as a massive, brilliant green fireball with fragments coming off of it. My father was driving south on I-69 through North Tulsa back in 1996/97. The nespaper story that followed a day or two later described how it landed in one of the parks in Tulsa. Point is this..

This type of thing happens alot with the ridiculous amount of space junk out there in orbit. Even if someone like North Korea were to recover destroyed remains of the satellite, would it really help them that much? Would they even be able to know what the junk was once part of?

Yes, one man's junk is another man's treasure. But not if it is unidentifiable or otherwise just a large ball of molten metal.

-ChriS

[edit on 17-2-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by BlasteR

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I would have to think that there is some sort of a "black box" type of device built in to these types of satellites that would protect vital components during a re-entry burn / crash. A missle would probably be a more sure fire way of ensuring anything vital is destroyed.

I think that whatever is on this satellite must have a chance of being discovered and that is why the govt is set on destroying it.

Whatever it is, is highly sensitive and not currently known of by other countries.

As for the theory that it is for testing the Aegis missile system..

There's plenty of other space debris to shoot at other than our own spy satellites. Not to mention the fact that if such a test was to take place it could be undertaken in complete secrecy. Instead, this has turned into a widely covered story in the media. The missile system has already proven capable, as does the weapons platform that fires it.

BUT
if such a shootdown were ordered by higher up in the government and everyone else is just following orders, why wouldn't a commander take the time and use this opportunity to prove that the aegis weapons system does really work. What is wrong with that from a commander's standpoint? At least we would be getting something out of it militarily and technologically. It isn't like we are shooting down other country's satellites to test our own weapons systems.

It doesn't make sense to test an anti-satellite missile on national television while politicians choose their targets in orbit. This type of testing has probably been underway long before this story ever came out (covertly and without everyone in the country knowing). It makes more sense and it's why the black world gives our country a distinct technological advantage over our adversaries.

-ChriS

reply to post by traderonwallst

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assuming you believe that I believe we reverse engineered alien tech... which I dont... IMO reverse engineered tech is a cover for:

1) alien communications and working with them to build the "flying saucer UFO's" (when ppl see these I think it's our government, and aliens are a cover)
2) ancient knowledge (or N. Tesla...)
3) human advancement