Human nature and The Forbidden Experiment

reply to post by Badge01


That indeed would be a very interesting thing to also pursue with this experiment.

Do you have a source article for that information anywhere? Not because i doubt you but because i am interested in reading more about it.

This experiment has taken place...before laws of ethical practice were set in place.
Children of the state (orphans) 12 of them if I remember correctly, were put into a room and were given eveerything they needed in the way of food, clothing, and diaper changes...but the people who doing the feeding and diaper changing were not allowed to play with or talk to or give the children any love at all.
What ended up happening was every one of those children (babies) turned their head to the wall and died....from lack of human interaction.
If you were thrown into isolation now even though you have interacted with other people for many years, you would simply go mad.
This is a very sad topic since it has been done before, and also sad that people still have such a morbid interest in this.

Originally posted by Vandermast
This experiment has taken place...before laws of ethical practice were set in place.
Children of the state (orphans) 12 of them if I remember correctly, were put into a room and were given eveerything they needed in the way of food, clothing, and diaper changes...but the people who doing the feeding and diaper changing were not allowed to play with or talk to or give the children any love at all.
What ended up happening was every one of those children (babies) turned their head to the wall and died....from lack of human interaction.
If you were thrown into isolation now even though you have interacted with other people for many years, you would simply go mad.

Ok... so what you are saying is that this experiment is most likely impossible? Due to children dying due to lack of interaction.

Does that mean if we do this experiment that a 'nurse' is required to give the child love and attention with as little information passing to the child as possible.

This would only be necessary until our child 'couple' become toddlers. Would two toddlers provide enough human interaction?

Originally posted by VandermastThis is a very sad topic since it has been done before, and also sad that people still have such a morbid interest in this.

It is interesting if you have a desire to know what humans would be like without outside influences. The whole nature vs nurture debate. What is human nature like?

I am NOT secretly wanting this experiment to go ahead so that we can see little babies die.

The experiment was Russian back in the early 1900s... Somewhere between 1901 and 1929 if am not mistaken In that time frame. 12 babies no physical contact and no emotional commitment. The babies literally died of a lack of love.

I think you are seeing what you want to know every day. Just look around you. Parental and Societal involvement in our child rearing is natural. Every thing we do is natural for our species at this point in development.

If you want an idea of how we came to be what we are, look into Archeology, Paleontology and Human and Primate Physiology.

We have examples of phases of our development all around the world to be studied. Everything can be seen from just this side of the Stone Age to advanced Industrial Age. Beyond that, study the Apes.

I find the Chimps interesting in that they do everything from fighting wars for territory to cannibalism and even acting as predators, much to the Greens chagrin.

I think a better question would be who are we to declare ourselves superior vs. are we not also animals and what we do is justified as a part of survival? What we do is just as natural as what any bug does. Given time, we will mold this world into the best possible environment for us as that is the true nature of things. If we survive this phase that is.

Originally posted by SilentShadow

Therein lies the inhumane aspect of this experiment or thought. I would not like to donate one of my children, however, i am sure, somewhere...

What an incredible statement to make. There are those who no doubt have no feeling for their own children. Are you saying, you care for your children, but could care less about another's child?

All this talk and no one has mentioned the show on TV right now about this? I remember a girl "Genie". Here's the link.

Feral Children - "Genie"

13 years of isolation and confinement, Here we have your experiment done for you already, what is different about her case then the one the OP proposed?

Nov 4,1970...district of Arcadia in L.A. authorities took custody of a 13 year old girl that was kept in isolation by her father for more than 10 years with virtually no human contact. The room she locked in contained a dresser, a crib with a wire mesh lid, and a "potty" chair. The majority of the time she was strapped to the small chair that had a hole in the seat and a bucket underneath, the rest of the time she was strapped in the crib with the lid secured down. Her only human contact was with her Father who never spoke nor interacted with her other than to feed her, and beat her if she made a sound. Her whole world consisted of a small room that offered nothing to look at, and since she was restrained there was nothing to do except sit in that chair. This nightmare lasted for more than ten years. Her Mother was partially blind and feared her dominating husband who forbid her and his son to talk to or see the girl. On Nov 4, 1970 she fled with her daughter to what she thought was an agency for the blind, it turned out to be Social Services. The worker there saw a blind woman with a child of approximately 6 to 7 years of age that looked and moved very strangely. Authorities were called and the awful truth came out.
There are two 6 part documentaries you can watch on YouTube regarding this story. The first is by BBC Horizon, and the other by Nova. Both are very similar in their presentation with most of the material being repeated, but I recommend watching both as they each offer some unique insights and history. You can easily find both by entering "genie" in the search box or use the following links:

BBC Horizon-Genie (deprived girl) Part 1 of 6
www.youtube.com...

NOVA Secrets of the Wild Child part 1 of 6
www.youtube.com...

Watch both then we can continue with further discussion on this subject.

Awesome topic, and it really is the forbidden experiment because you know all humane rights society would be ALL over anyone trying to pull off rasing a child from birth completely in isolation...

But man, it would be awful but REALLY interesting. I mean we could see what a human really would be like without any influences from ANYTHING but reality, our reality is shaped around tv, each other, the internet, our recreational activities...

but a human that has no influences... Oh my what we would find out about us.

Although I'm sure it has been experimented, I mean everything imaginable has happened to another human being. Just because it's bad and cruel doesn't mean it happens, we human beings are just naturally cruel creatures, that's all.

here is a preview on oprah that i found that deals with a little girl living with no interaction. It's really sad what humans will do to other humans.

oops sorry here is the link. i am new still trying to figure everything out.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


Grrrr... i don't have the internet at home at the moment and work has Youtube blocked.

Does anyone have the skills to put this video onto the ATS media site? It is not blocked.

reply to post by SilentShadow


does this help? i can't find the actual clip anywhere just a preview for it.




*sorry i don't know what i did wrong. i tried to put it on this post but when i went back to see if it works...it doesn't.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by browneyedgirl8]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by browneyedgirl8]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by browneyedgirl8]

Originally posted by SilentShadow
So it would be more humane to bring the child up in the world we know, with its terrors, stress and violence than keeping it in a controlled environment.

Of course it is all a matter of perspective, and a love or hate of the world we are in lol.

I agree and disagree. I agree because the child will be exposed to far less danger both physically and mentally(this one really depends on how you want the child to think).

I disagree because once the child is brought out of this environment to the 'real world' they'll be extremely vulnerable for many obvious reasons.

First, they may not learn the concept of good and evil. While I don't think they'll be inclined to do bad, but if someone does something bad to them, they won't know it and won't attempt to defend themselves.

But overall, I think it's bad, I could see how the caretakers would figure out, they could easily take advantage of the person and use him or her for their own selfish gains.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by ahnggk]

reply to post by SilentShadow


ok, here is my thought:

we currently have 256k processing power in just about every desktop out there. We don't even use the 256k processor, instead running it as 128 (due to compatibility with Legacy machines).

We are on the cusp of marketing machines capable of 512 and higher. This seems insignificant. It is not. In such an environment, with a multi core processor, you can recreate this experiment.

What needs to be done is to upload personality traits. Go through and classify the human personality to the greatest extent possible. Chronicle every aspect, and account for its impacts. Run mock up with currently established scenarios, and check for how accurate it is, adjust, and then try your experiment in a cyber environment.

I, too, am extremely curious to see what the outcome would be. But I would oppose any attempt to carry out such experimentation. It is not worth knowing with such a cost, to me. Perhaps the Chinese would do it...they will do just about any science.


I bet it has been done. Given the religious zealots that dominated the last few thousand years, i can guarantee yhou that an "Adam and Eve" experiment was carried out somewhere, with someone. I would also bet the Jesuits have the results stored away somewhere.

Originally posted by Vandermast
This experiment has taken place...before laws of ethical practice were set in place.
Children of the state (orphans) 12 of them if I remember correctly, were put into a room and were given eveerything they needed in the way of food, clothing, and diaper changes...but the people who doing the feeding and diaper changing were not allowed to play with or talk to or give the children any love at all.
What ended up happening was every one of those children (babies) turned their head to the wall and died....from lack of human interaction.
If you were thrown into isolation now even though you have interacted with other people for many years, you would simply go mad.
This is a very sad topic since it has been done before, and also sad that people still have such a morbid interest in this.

I wouldn't be too hard on the OP. "Skunkworks" IS for highly speculative threads. This is the place for such material, which should (but has) never happen. His interest, as stated in the OP, was more from the "what if" angle on what makes us human. Feral children, raised by animals, have shown an adaptability. Humans are very adaptable creatures. Understanding the "Failure to thrive" syndrome seen in the Russian experiments, and figuring out what types of social groups are required to make a human into a human, are critical to understanding who/what we are.

That IS the big question that the most effort goes in to. It is the basis of all religions.

There is nothing morbid in his curiosity. I don't think he intends to harm children. He just came up with an interesting question that he wants input on.

So kind of like Tarzan huh? What the real question is how will he react when he sees a video game for the first time?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
What needs to be done is to upload personality traits. Go through and classify the human personality to the greatest extent possible. Chronicle every aspect, and account for its impacts. Run mock up with currently established scenarios, and check for how accurate it is, adjust, and then try your experiment in a cyber environment.

I find the irony in using a machine to tell us what a human is really like rather humourous lol. But i do think that it would at the very least give us interesting data as to what is the average person like. Good idea.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
There is nothing morbid in his curiosity. I don't think he intends to harm children. He just came up with an interesting question that he wants input on.

Thankyou.

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla
So kind of like Tarzan huh?

What the real question is how will he react when he sees a video game for the first time?

Actually not quite like Tarzan. If you read some of the case studies that have been brought up in the thread, you will notice that 'Feral Children' often carry animal characteristics, from the animal that reared them, until they die. So they don't quite give a good enough perspective.

I think you might enjoy this movie as it is along similar lines.

Nell is a 1994 drama film starring Jodie Foster as a young woman who has to face other people for the first time after being raised by her mother in an isolated cabin.

Her mother has a stroke and a subsequent speech impediment. Nell grows up with this same impediment and, later in life when she is 'discovered' no one can figure out where she got this language and what she is trying to say.

She still continues to live in an isolated cabin even after her mother dies, until she is discovered by happenstance and taken to civilization.

Her reaction to civilization is the same amazement that people have toward her.

Originally posted by Alethea
Nell is a 1994 drama film starring Jodie Foster as a young woman who has to face other people for the first time after being raised by her mother in an isolated cabin.

Thanks for that. I will look into finding that movie.