Archbishop of Canterbury calls for Sharia law to operate in Britain

I'm not British so I may be out of place to comment, but as a woman I am opposed to Sharia law in terms of its unequal treatment of women. It may be true that few Muslim women in the UK have protested it, but they may not have had sufficient exposure to a different set of mores to be able to make an informed choice. Let the women live for a while in a country where the children are not autmatically the property of the husband, where their testimony as a witness is only half as valuable as a man's, etc. and then let them make a decision. Yes, I am making a negative judgment of another culture because it is different from the prevailing one, but it has taken western women centuries to get where we are now legally and socially; it seems important not to go backwards.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
If you emigrate, you assimilate or keep your opinions to yourself. Why should a sovereign nation pander to the whims of an immigrant. You know what you're getting into before moving somewhere, and you don't expect them to change their culture to cater to your sensibilities.

Sry but I disagree. I don't believe being an 'immigrant' should deny you the right to express your opinions and beliefs. That's just silly imo.

I'm English and I live in the US, so that makes me an immigrant, and I sure as hell won't keep my opinions to myself thank you very much...

Allowing Muslims to practice certain laws is not changing your culture, it's adding to it. Nothing you have in your culture now will go away because of this.

You just fear change, and the hysteria in the media over Muslims is fueling that fear. Allowing Muslims to practice certain laws is not going to effect you. If they become the majority population then majority rules, according to the system set up by your country and supported more than likely by you. But what is the chance of that happening? Realistically, none...

Originally posted by ANOK
Allowing Muslims to practice certain laws is not going to effect you. If they become the majority population then majority rules, according to the system set up by your country and supported more than likely by you. But what is the chance of that happening? Realistically, none...

Well, bring that up to English women in a few years when Sharia Law starts to effect everyone. As I said before, welcome to the 12th Century. Hope you brought your burka.

I'm Enlgish and this is stupid and completely outrageous if it goes through.


This is England and we have Enlgish laws, I do not care if someone from a different religion lives here, they will have to live under the law we have already, I won't complain if I go somewhere else and the law is different, this is just stupid.

rant over...

With comments like this you can see why the Church of England is losing touch with the people of Britain.

I know its not Sharia law but....

this also reminds me of the issue in England at the moment of some hospitals not disclosing the sex of your unborn baby at the 20 week scan because "certain" minorities are chosing to abort girls; sometimes by their own hand.

So everyone has to suffer because of that small minority.

It's really best to keep things secular.

Not to get all Titor-esque on this topic, but this brings to mind a work of fiction (presumably) that I read somewhere long ago. In fact, I think I found it through ATS, I'll have to go look and see if I can't find a link to post up.

Anyhow, It was about a man who was visited by a time traveler who explained to this man how the imposition of sharia was the catalyst for the downward spiral of society. Ring a bell with anyone?

The title of this thread and the mainstream coverage of what was said is completely sensationalist and hysterical. The Archbishop of Cantebury did NOT call for Sharia law to operate in Britain! He said he thought it "seems unavoidable" that certain aspects of Sharia law would be adopted in the UK. And no, he wasn't refering to public floggings and beheadings, he was refering to civl court matters, divorce, business.

While I would in princliple oppose altering parts of the law to suit religious beliefs, and advocate equality in every sense (if there is a law there, then it is for everyone), I fear that this latest episode has been grossly overblown to further an obvious agenda.

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Paul]

I don't think it's inevitable at all - in fact, I think it's quite the opposite because different sects of Islam have different interpretations of Sharia Law. There is no single body of text that one can point to, so which version or versions get used and which get ignored? Why do we even need to bother wasting time answering such a complex and unnecessary question?

Secondly, religion and lawmaking is not a good combination. Our laws should be as secular as possible, and trying to give one group of people their own rules because they're a particular religion is a bad idea in so many ways.

I respect the Archbishop's right to discuss these issues but I think he's got the wrong idea on this one. I don't really sense a big push for this from Britain's Muslim population anyway... it seems to be only a minority.

I am tired of constantly living in the past. Why can't humans break the cycle? Do you want to know who built the pyramids? Intelligent humans did. Do you want to know what happened to them? They got out-procreated.

Originally posted by Paul
The title of this thread and the mainstream coverage of what was said is completely sensationalist and hysterical. The Archbishop of Cantebury did NOT call for Sharia law to operate in Britain! He said he thought it "seems unavoidable" that certain aspects of Sharia law would be adopted in the UK.

I agree, Paul. If this were to come to fruition it wouldn't be a case of two separate legal systems depending on which religion a person subscribes to. It would most likely be implemented in the same way that Jewish courts are implemented in the UK, within British law and on an entirely voluntary basis.

The people talking about there being only one law for eveyone in Britain don't seem to realise that this already happens in the Jewish community.

i guess im just unclear as to why Sharia law NEEDS to be recognized by the government in order for Muslims to live under its laws should they choose.

why cant they have their little "courts" to decide their civil matters between them and THEN take their agreement to a solicitor to get it done through legal channels according to their wishes?

case and point i suppose. im catholic. im married. if i disolve my marriage through the civil courts, thats legally binding and as far as the govt is concerned i can get married the next day.

however the church says otherwise. so, should i then choose to continue to live as a catholic and want to remarry i have to go through THEIR steps to be allowed to do that. thats my decision.

two sets of rules living side by side but only one of them is THE LAW

The Archbishop has lost his ever loving mind. What a heretic, and a sell out to his position which is to look after and guard the Christian faith. Sharia law is extremely cold-blooded, and allows for torture for the most miniscule of offenses.

Some of you have no idea what you're talking about. None of you have studied Islamic Shariah Law to even know what it entails. You listen to the Media and believe all the parts you want to when it comes to Islam, yet you selectively pick out other parts as being propaganda when it favors your own opinion or cause. Please stop doing this.

I have read all the comments talking about what Shariah Law will impose, and just from what "some" of you are saying, you really are clueless.

Maybe the Archbishop understands Shariah Law because he has studied it, I dont know, but for some reason he wants to help a minority.

As for for this coment:

I'm not British so I may be out of place to comment, but as a woman I am opposed to Sharia law in terms of its unequal treatment of women.

What proof do you have that Shariah Law treats women unequally? Words can be baseless, you provided no proof, please document out of a book of Shariah Law (and NO you cannot use the lying media as proof) where it shows Laws that are against women?

FANG:
Even if sharia was simply used for the Divorces, there is still the fundamental problem that under Islam, a women is not considered equal to a man.

Why do you blame religion for all the Wrong? Why is Fundamental a bad word? It means "the basics". There is nothing wrong with the basics of Islam (apparently you have never read the Quraan, rather heard snippets from the media. Once again, thats like Listening to Hitler when he describes Judaism! And a women not being equal to a man??? Where did you get this from?? Apparently NOT frm the Quraan. And dont tell me to look around because all of the Muslims I know, treat their women with the dignity and respect they deserve ... And if youre going to use media propaganda to make your decisions, then there is no sensible debating with you as that is not representative of the Majority. And some insight for you, Women have equal rights in Islam, the headscarf is for their own modesty, ask most Muslim women and they will tell you that they WANT to wear it, regardless of what the man wants. And as far as a woman being EXACTLY equal to a man... well even on the Genetic Level Men and Women are Not Equal,... Men have an XY Chromosome whereas Women have XX. Also Women can give birth, men cant. Men have better upper body strength, Women have better Lower body strength.... and i can go on and on...but im sure you get the point?

Another thing, use your heads. Islam is not, and should not be represented by what you see in Iraq or Afghanistan.... these are war torn countries... AND.... even in Non-War torn countries... remember ALOT of people, even though they call themselves Muslims... do NOT practice Islam as its supposed to be.

So if someone is practicing Islam the way its supposed to be, you have NOTHING to worry about.... its the people who DONT follow it you should be worried about. Just read the Quraan and you will know this for a fact!

NorthWofl: Adultery is not a crime.

Adultery is a Crime according to the 3 Largest Religions in the world: Judaism, Islam and Christianity. This is not limited to Islam. And in any of the above religions, Athiesm is seen as blasphemy.

*************

Anyways, as for Shariah Law in Britian... that is a bit ineresting even for me as a Muslims to understand, but in New York City, the Jews have their own Laws and Police for themselves, which is fine. So i am thinking that the same would work in the UK, under certain limits. The laws would only apply to Muslims, so why would anyone be opposed to it? Its not like Muslims are pushing their laws onto non-muslims. And the laws they seem to be talking about are just basic laws, not an Entire Shariah Law Change. Its just for marraige and other legalities. Here in the US, a muslim has to get married by the US legal system AND the Islamic Shariah System. So I think some of you are over worrying. Peace.

Originally posted by jerico65
Well, bring that up to English women in a few years when Sharia Law starts to effect everyone. As I said before, welcome to the 12th Century. Hope you brought your burka.

hysteria! It's classic!

You know in the 50's they used to say that the 'darkies' [sic] would take everything over...

It's good to use history to see what's going on in the present...

Again I will ask how is that going to happen to you? Are you a Muslim?...

Get a grip people.

reply to post by ZyonCryme


so then, are you saying that ALL of what we hear about Sharia law or Islamic fundamentals from the media is wrong?

would you then also say that this news article is more or less a fantastic fabrication?

just curious. ive never cover to covered the quran but, while ive read exerpts, i cant say im "up to speed" on exactly what is in it or not so in your opinion, is that news article full of dung?

so then, are you saying that ALL of what we hear about Sharia law or Islamic fundamentals from the media is wrong?

would you then also say that this news article is more or less a fantastic fabrication?

Absolutely, its complete propaganda garbage from the Media. That article really upset me right from the start because they said "Islamic Teachings".... Where the hell does it say to kill a woman for putting on makeup??? I can guarantee you you will NEVER find it in the Quraan. Also if you read what i wrote earlier, you CANNOT take what the murders in Iraq or AFghanistan are doing and say thats Islamic... These people who are doing this are perpetrators of Islam. They are pulling things out of their @$$ and saying its coming out of the Holy Book!... and according to Islam all of them will be punished for what they are doing as Islamically they are commiting atrocious murder.

Here is the Quraans stance on murder:

Allah (SWT) has declared His reward and punishment in the Qur'ân: For that cause We decreed for the children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter of corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and saveth the life of one person, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind...
(Al-Ma’ida 5:32).

This means that if someone kills a human being (not just a muslim, which shows that Islam protects all human beings and is fair to all humans from the atrocious act), except for a murder who is brought to justice and sentenced to death, then it is as if he has killed all mankind...etc,...etc,.. u get the point.

So after knowing this how can anyone even justify that article has any value?

As a Muslim I am (as all other Muslims are) Appaled by what a small group of other Muslims are doing.. its just sickening... dont they know they have to answer to God for what they do? And then they blow themselves up as well,.. which is suicide and Islamically anyone who commits suicide is commited to Hell. So I dont see that these people (though they call themselves muslims) even know the Religion of Islam. Theyre just doing whatever the hell they want it seems.

And i've said this before, as muslims we cant even hit someone (as to bruise them)... unless we're being attacked or our life is in danger (everyone has that right).

Its like when 25% of women in the US are beaten up by their husbands (www.msnbc.msn.com...) then its called Domestic Violence. Yet when it happens in Iraq to just 5% of that... then its Islam's fault???? Think people. Really.

This is the same BS Propaganda.

Peace.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by ZyonCryme]

[edit on 9-2-2008 by ZyonCryme]

Yeah screw that. It might not seem like much, but you should realise that it's just one small step for Islam, one giant leap for Islamkind.

If we keep letting the little things through, soon Britain won't be Britain anymore, it'll just be another Islamic country. And most of us don't want that.

And for you lot who keep quoting the 2.7% figure, try living over here, it seems like a lot more than that, especially when we have to change our culture and bend over backwards to 'accomodate' them...

reply to post by malganis


So all thess comments are just because you all are scared of muslims changing the UK haha, just because of something archbishop has said, have you guys actually talked to the actual muslims? not leaders.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

So all this comments are just because you all are scared of muslims changing the UK haha, just because of something archbishop has said, have you guys actually talked to the actual muslims?

yes, I have, I have also read the polls, read the insights into Islamic communities, ha ha, go laugh at the homosexuals who seek solace there!

Ha ha if the nazis come would you dismiss them...........