Prepare? Prepare to Die!

Originally posted by MuLongQun
If situation X is bad enough that you need to live in a bunker for 2 years or more wouldn’t the question really be do I want to survive not how can I survive? What am I surviving for? Life is about “living it” isn’t it? Do I want to live on a “scorched earth”? Do I want my family to live on said earth?

Some people might say you’re a coward for not trying. I say people who don’t know when to say “enough is enough” are cowards.

I would say in this scenario “die and let die”.

Thats pretty sad, a human being saying "Why bother?"

I understand the pains of living in a bunker for 2 years, or dealing with a scorched Earth, trust me I would be whining and complaining all the way, at least in my brain if not out loud.
The only way out of that scenario is what? Suicide?
If you're a God fearing man, you know he frowns on that sort of thing, and if you're an athiest, you have NO IDEA where it leads, do you? I don't know about you, but I'm like most people, I simply have no idea what exactly happens after death, it may be better, or it may be worse. You're going to walk blindly into that with your anthem being "Enough is Enough"?

Good luck with that, pal.

reply to post by MuLongQun


I guess this is where we will have to agree to disagree. When it comes to this precious thing called life, to me there is no enough is enough.

How anyone could look at their kids and say, welp, enough is enough time to die is beyond me.

Go ahead and give up. My hope is that if a sit x ever does happen, there are more people like you who just give up, and say "enough is enough" less people to have to worry about.

Prepare to die? Yes. I am most prepared for what I know will happen. No one gets out of here alive. Prepare your life so the bus, heart attack, fire, or other end will have no difference. Every day could be your last and for many it is. Be prepared for a certainty you will never overcome. Get right with your God, and if you have no God get right with yourself or your conscience.


Be prepared for life? No one knows what is hidden in the bread of that sandwich, or what the next hand of cards will be. This in mind, rethink your supplies and tools or other preparations to cover the most possible situations.

Earthquake, flood etc, and I will recover my camping gear trunks from the rubble and avoid being a burden to my family and society. If I haven't prepare properly for life it will be painfully obvious. Still I neither want or expect help from the govt or FEMA. They will have enough fools on their hands to feed cloth and take care of without my family adding to the strain. If I end up in that situation after careful planning and need to be dependent, I will know I did everything I could to avoid it.

As I have said before, I prepare how I can when I can, and when a sit x happens I will play the cards im given.

reply to post by MuLongQun:

If situation X is bad enough that you need to live in a bunker for 2 years or more wouldn’t the question really be do I want to survive not how can I survive? What am I surviving for? Life is about “living it” isn’t it? Do I want to live on a “scorched earth”? Do I want my family to live on said earth?

Some people might say you’re a coward for not trying. I say people who don’t know when to say “enough is enough” are cowards.

I would say in this scenario “die and let die”.

And I say it's not about me, its about mankind and the continuation of the species. All creatures have this driving force built into them. To lack that driving force to continue is in my opinion selfish and flawed.

I can remember when almost all food came from the small farmers spread across the country and most of our goods came to us through small mom and pop stores and the goods were manufactured, likely as not by even more small American owned companies. The unions were strong in case any conglomerate wanted to run rough shod over their workers. There's strength and security in that. In my lifetime I've watched our so called leadership sell us out. We no longer have that strength and stability to our system that local production and local control gives it. As a result, we're vulnerable to too many outside forces to count, any one of which can drastically change or even destroy our lives. That's a fact of life even without factoring in for terrorism. The gross mis-management of our lives and resources have placed us all on a precarious perch. All logic screams out that it can't last. I've watched this story unfold for nearly 60 years and I can't describe how curious I am as to how it's going to unfold but something huge is going to happen.

Most people know that, they just don't want to hear it so the knee jerk reaction is usually to just kill the messenger (metaphorically speaking). I say to you that if you don't want to prepare, then don't. That's your right just as my decision to prepare is my right. In the long run Darwin will have his say in the matter and there'll be no more argument. Deep down most naysayers know that. They feel powerless to attack the real problem so they attack the preppers who are a constant reminder instead. One common denominator I've seen among survivalists is a strong burning desire to help others to see and to prepare.

You can't prepare mentally or otherwise unless you play out the possible scenarios and eventualities in theory first. That is a major activity of our military leaders. They're constantly playing "what if" and we have a stronger military because they do. We don't have tanks and airplanes and super-computers to use to accomplish this. All we have is each other and these forums. Every time someone poses a scenario that I hadn't considered they do me a service and increase my survival chances.

Trying to convince me that I'm wrong and should change my ways about this matter will always prove futile and a waste of your energies. I do you no harm in making my preparations. On the contrary, I live as a minimalist and always strive to leave as small a footprint as I reasonably can. In that way I'm trying to be part of the solution. It will never be enough because too many others refuse to. It's that refusal to abandon that wasteful mentality that hamstrings us. That mindset is the single most cause that the common wo/man can change and make a difference. Small business can't really outsource. Support them no matter the cost. It's the strength of a nation and our future as a nation, if we're to have one, hangs on this. As I see it you have three choices:

1) Get busy being part of the solution.

2) Prepare as many are to be part of the rebuilding process.

3) Prepare to die or go into captivity with the masses after you've ignored the first two options.

[edit on 2/8/2008 by SemperParatus]

[edit on 2/8/2008 by SemperParatus]

[edit on 2/8/2008 by SemperParatus]

I think some may be confused. Preparing yourself for death in the event of a serious sitX is not the same as giving up.

Of course, we all have a survival instinct which is also very different to spending a lot of time, effort and money in making preparations for a scenario which is statistically, very unlikely.

Even if we aren't faced with SitX, preparing yourself mentally to die is still sound advice, it is something we all face and must come to terms with, it just becomes an increasing liklihood in a lot of SitX situations.

If there was a nuclear strike anywhere near me, I'd rather the bomb drops in my back yard than near enough where I will survive for a month then die a long, painful, lingering death with all my skin falling off and other severe trauma.

If the pole shift were actually to happen and wipes out 90% of the planets population, I would rather be in the 90% than the 10%.

I, and others, don't have a problem with that, we all die, it's just a case of how and when. If you think differently, you know, that's ok!

However, if I were one of the 10%, then so be it. You make the best of it, you just do. That's the survival instinct, you deal with it and survive as best you can.

I completely accept that those that have prepared for that outcome, have better chances of surviving, but they could have made a lot of effort just to experience hell on Earth.

The difference here though is that eventuality would be statistically unlikely. So what is wrong with questioning the wisdom of one that goes to enormous lengths to defeat a statistical improbability so I think it's important to understand what sitX actually is. I may be thinking about nuclear fallout while someone else may be thinking about having no power and communications for a few weeks. Two very different scenarios, one I'd like to get through, the other not. I think many survivalists have a very good idea of which scenario they are preparing for and it likely doesn't include a worldwide catastrophe, perhaps it does but it's an important point to remember.

I want to pick up on two points from thelibra.

The first being that there is a duty to care for those close to you. As much as I am happy to meet my maker, others whom I hold dear, may not feel the same way and it would be prudent to consider them.

I would also want to be around when TSHTF in order to protect and provide as best I can. So, rather than a fear of death, I would be driven by a fear of leaving others to fend for themselves.

So, clearly, I think I understand the issues. The question becomes, once I am prepared to die (which also puts me in a better frame of mind to lay down my life for others), which sit-x do I actually prepare for and how far do I realistically take that without being extremely paranoid.

There must be a line we cross somewhere in preparations that borders on some sort of disorder based on the extremes we go to and the chances of what we prepare for actually coming to fruition.

So my second question is that said member mentioned certain preparations that cross the board of all manner of sitX. Those I would like to hear.

I realise this is an emotive topic and pushes at the boundaries for some but the responses have been interesting and there is clearly a split amongst the members and their opinions.

thelibra also mentioned how there are a faction who do pour scorn on survivalists and the mentality behind it. I hope this thread stands as somewhat an interesting read for those on either side of the fence and may help to reduce that understanding gap. It's ok to disagree so keep your questions, comments and flaming coming, personally, I find this a fascinating issue. Thanks for participating.

reply to post by Prote


Prote, I have to hand it to you, you've kept rather clear and polite through this whole thing, which is more than I can say for myself, actually. Re-reading some of my previous posts in this thread, I think I let preconceptions get the better of me, and I apologize for any rude wording in my posts.

Here's the thing: You are entirely correct about outlandish preparations about statistically highly unlikely events, such as nuclear war, zombie infestation, alien attack, asteroid strike, etc... but those that do actually make those preparations are the reason the species can and does flourish through major disasters (that and sheer cussedness).

However, it's not the Big Things that are likely to kill you or your family, or even endanger them. It's the "Little Things". One gentleman earlier in the thread mentioned the Ice Storm that shut down his whole town for two weeks. That's the sort of thing that is almost a statistical certainty in some areas, likely in others, and possible in many places. Its wind-blown equivolent doubles that area. The rise of terrorism for hire makes it possible for any area's infrastructure to technically be at risk.

So, that said, you asked what "Universal Preparations" can be made that cover the bases for almost all Situation X's, at least to a small degree. Here's a good start:

FOOD: Non-perishable, high-protein, high-moisture canned foods, such as chunky beef stew, beans, etc, and some other variety, enough to feed everyone in your house comfortably for at least 3 days. Two weeks is even better.

WATER: Enough for each person to get at least 2 litres per day to drink, plus any extra for cleaning people, dishes, and clothes. Bleach, iodine tablets, etc, are all a very good idea to keep around in case you have to make potable water out of any non-potable water.

FIRST-AID KIT: At bare minimum, should be able to handle fevers, cuts, breaks, sprains, and allergies. If you want one better, get a field-surgery kit. In both cases, get a manual, and read it BEFORE you need it.

LOW-TECH TOOLS: Hammers, hand-saws, nails, can-opener, etc. Also a good idea to have some brick, lumber, sheetrock, plywood, and other building materials in the event you need to do a quick patch-fix (like a tree falling through the roof of your house during a time when infrastructure is shut down, or repair crews are unavailable).

CASH/GOLD: For people without much money, always try and keep at least $100 cash. If you can't spare $100, then as much as you can. A very good idea is to keep it pinned/sewn/etc, inside the lining of your coat, purse, backpack, etc. Worst case scenario, you've got $100 for a hotel room and some meals. As you become more financially stable, keeping about 1% of your net worth in gold ingots or bars is a good idea, but no more than that.

PROPANE TANKS AND ACCESSORIES: A propane grill or camping stove is a good way to be able to prepare meals with no electricity or gas for your house. (Don't use propane accessories inside the house). You can also use it for lamps and welding/cutting torches, or in a pinch, it has other uses, like clearing a road blocked by a fallen tree or house.

EMERGENCY HAND-CRANK RADIO/FLASHLIGHT - Preferably one that also gets the local NOAA channels. Mine comes with a siren, flash signal, flashlight, AM/FM/NOAA/Network TV Audio Band/UHF TV Audio Band, has a hand-crank dynamo to charge the batteries, and an attachment to charge cell phones with. It's the Eton FR-300, in case you wanted to find one.

FLASHLIGHTS/WALKIE TALKIES/BATTERIES - Flashlights for obvious reasons. The Walkie-Talkies are a good idea in case the cell and landline networks are down and someone has to seperate with the main group, or you want to keep in contact with a nearby family.

GOOD BACKPACKS AND BEDROLLS - Preferably one with a padded hip-belt and frame, to better distribute weight. In the event you have to leave home and vehicles all behind and take only what you can carry with you as you walk, these make life about a thousand times more pleasant than trying to lug around a suitcase, or even that little Jansport backpack you had in high school.

FIRE SAFE OR SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX - I cannot stress this one enough. Get a fire safe and put it in a wall, in the middle, not at a corner, at ground-level. Put your most important documents (SSN Cards, photocopies of your licenses, birth certs, titles, deeds, insurance policies, will, cash/gold, etc) in there. If you can't afford a fire safe, get a safety deposit box, and leave them there. Of all Situation X's, fire is the most likely. It's bad enough dealing with fire damage and losing everything you have. It compounds the issue a million-fold when you have to do all that paperwork without the ability to prove who you are, what coverage you had, or what you actually own.

There's other things aside from all that. Most of these things are among things most of us already have laying around our house, somewhere. It's not like we're all digging trenches and stockpiling shotguns and swords for zombie attacks. Most of us, like myself, are just Joe Ave's who've lived through a situation where we REALLY could have used one or more of those things during an emergency, and now we've learned to get them BEFORE we need them.

That's what being a Survivalist is really about. The Michael Gross characters from Tremors are movie characters. I'm sure some people like that exist, but for the most part, real Survivalists are just grown up Boy Scouts who learned (perhaps the hard way) to Be Prepared. Having all or most of the above will allow you to be prepared for almost any LIKELY Situation X, and even a number of unlikely ones.


(EDIT: Clarified propane use, added firesafe.)

PS: Many are going to reply that I left out "a good weapon/firearm". That's a matter of personal choice. I recommend one, to be sure, but the odds of actually needing one are less than needing any one of the above listed things.


[edit on 2/8/2008 by thelibra]

reply to post by geocom



Geo,
You are very welcome, and please tell your dad " welcome home" from me.
As for my time in service, it has been both an honor and a privilage.
An honor to serve, and a privilage to have served alongside some of the best men and women our species has produced.

Libra, well done.
As i said there are some things that are common to every disastor, whether it's an inconvenience or a world changing event.
Being physicly and mentaly prepared for the very worst, insures you will be preapred for the not so bad too.
There is no such thing as " enough is enough " that sort of thinking before an event of any degree is a planned failure.
In the end, it may not amount to preperations that determin who survives and who doesn't. Maybe it will just work out to the luck of the draw.
In that event, I don't think it matters how we die. It only matters as to how we lived.
I will always live in such a way that I wont become a victim and therefor a burden. I will prepare, so that in the event I am one of the survivors, I will be more able to assist those I can.
In the event, i am the last one standing, I'll find a nice spot, where I can sit, remember our species, pray for the dead, and weep for our wasted potential.
Ps. "Your only paranoid if nothing happens "

[edit on 8-2-2008 by 1ShotDeal]

Originally posted by Prote
Are survivalists, survivalists because they fear death? or not?

What say you?

Realizing one's own death is a good way to survive! I've known this for a while, but it is not new. Many cultures warrors did a death ritual before going out to battle.

By perciving you've already "died", you don't fear the death that you've already accepted. You then have clear state of mind to take the next objective.

It's the guy on the battle field that is too busy thinking about how he might die that doesn't see death coming.

reply to post by Prote


Fear is healthy......At the very least fear is hightened awareness.....In addition....without fear there is no courage.
It takes determination in conjunction with fear to survive....
Death will visit you at your appointed time no matter what preparations
you have made.
Your survival will depend on your will to live and your ability to navigate
through the trials before you.

I see I have hit a cord since my last post.

Thelibra with all due respect I thought you would know better being a Mod to post such an ignorant and offensive post as this as you know nothing about me. Who moderates the Mods here?

“The attitude and acceptance that you think such laughable "hardship" as two years in a bunker is impossible to face, and indeed, worth dying to avoid, only goes to show how little hardship you've ever had to face. To have lived such a priviledged life must be nice indeed, but some of us never had that choice.”

Let me provide and example of why I stated what I said previously.

What if after you have stayed in said bunker for a lengthy time period and decide to surface to find the earth around you is still “uninhabitable”. Lets say you have little or no food left and it would be days before you (and hopefully only you as I could not imagine having to put children through this scenario) could find something drinkable or edible. The likelihood of starving to death or dehydration is extremely high. Do you know what it is like to starve to death or die because of no water? From what I know its extremely painful and lengthy. Your tongue swells up and cracks then your stomach dries along with your brain until the point of death and your body and mind are screaming in agony for water or release along the way.

In this scenario yes I would say enough is enough.

The people who have said I am “hard” enough to stay in a bunker for a certain amount years unlike some people. How do you know? Ever tried? I have a psychological back ground and I can tell you that humans are social beings. Being locked up in a small confined space is one thing. With no one else to socialize with is another. May you survive? Maybe. May you come out the same as you went in? Maybe not.

So people who are preparing to “try” survive sit-x? I once again say for what? To live in a small bunker going slowly insane then to come out and see the earth asunder and to slowly and painfully die or even worse watch your partner and children die the same way?

People can talk the talk about this Sit-x but could you really walk the walk?

I’m realistic and once again I say enough is enough.

I see I have hit a cord since my last post.

in my opinion you did it on purpose to do noting but troll.

Thelibra with all due respect I thought you would know better being a Mod to post such an ignorant and offensive post as this as you know nothing about me. Who moderates the Mods here?

He apologized for it. Here is a clue for you the mods are human to. you came trolling got a bite now you complain about it.

Let me provide and example of why I stated what I said previously.

What if after you have stayed in said bunker for a lengthy time period and decide to surface to find the earth around you is still “uninhabitable”. Lets say you have little or no food left and it would be days before you (and hopefully only you as I could not imagine having to put children through this scenario) could find something drinkable or edible. The likelihood of starving to death or dehydration is extremely high. Do you know what it is like to starve to death or die because of no water? From what I know its extremely painful and lengthy. Your tongue swells up and cracks then your stomach dries along with your brain until the point of death and your body and mind are screaming in agony for water or release along the way.

In this scenario yes I would say enough is enough.

Let me give an example of my own.

What if after you have stayed in said bunker for a lengthy time period and decide to surface. The earth is green and lovely with animals frolicking and playing. food and water is plenty. What would you have done if you had said enough is enough and never entered the bunker and either took you own life or let the reason for the sit x take you. oh yes you would be dead because you gave up. so you would do no nothing. as a good friend of mine once said. We are Survivalist we have to see what's next even if nothings next.

The people who have said I am hard enough to stay in a bunker for a certain amount years unlike some people. How do you know? Ever tried? I have a psychological back ground and I can tell you that humans are social beings. Being locked up in a small confined space is one thing. With no one else to socialize with is another. May you survive? Maybe. May you come out the same as you went in? Maybe not.

Maybe is the key there you don't know. you yelled at libra because he doesn't know you yet made a statement about you. now you do the same. you use the sudo science of Psychology as an excuse to know it all. Psychology is not a true science because everybody is different. if we were all the same then you could put Psychology to work saying humans do this because. But as it is now every human will react differently to every situation. Psychologist and people with psychological back ground tend to say you are wrong because my sudo science says you are wrong.

So people who are preparing to try survive sit-x? I once again say for what? To live in a small bunker going slowly insane then to come out and see the earth asunder and to slowly and painfully die or even worse watch your partner and children die the same way?

People can talk the talk about this Sit-x but could you really walk the walk?

If you did your research you would see multiple post in the ATS survival forums of people who have walked the walk.. I ask again how do you know2 for sure you seem to want to discount other humans because your to weak to walk the walk. What would they call that in psychology. oh yes its called projecting.

I’m realistic and once again I say enough is enough.

No you are not realistic. what you are is a troll using Psychology to come to a place that we enjoy coming to and learning and teaching and trying to get every body in a uproar.

I don’t see how my original post was trolling? Is disagreeing and asking questions trolling? Actually I’m not sure if I truly understand this word in regards to forums. I’m assuming it means trying to annoy or bait people in which I assure you I never intended?

If you have seen some of the movies recently about near world or human annihilation or being stranded on a desert island or being placed in a camp where you are starved and/or beaten to death (I know they are movies) but you get an idea. If you see from my initial posts most of my statements were in the form of questions not projecting what I think people should do in this situation. I assumed that if you needed to stay in a bunker for a lengthy period of time that what ever Sit- X was it would have been dire, for example an asteroid hit or mass world destruction through nuclear war.

I received some points of view in that either it would depend on the intensity of the Sit-x which I agree or it was a question of faith in both the human species and/or religious doctrine which I understand but do not necessarily agree nor do I have to since this is a forum.

What I stated was why go in a bunker if you’re pretty sure that there is going to be nothing left when you get out? What is the point of putting yourself through all that pain and suffering? Its not humane in my opinion. It’s the same as doctors adding a little more morphine to patients who are only going to suffer for the next two weeks, months in insufferable pain with nothing to look forward to. I was genuinely interested in why someone would want to do that to themselves. I think this is a fair question.

By all means if you think its necessary to build a bunker I certainly have nothing against it. Though I would certainly not want anyone to starve or dehydrate to the point of death or having to sit in a bunker for a lengthy period of time unnecessarily.

In regards to psychology well you have your opinion about it just like Tom Cruise I guess and you are welcome to it though it does meet the standards or is of higher standards then most research or experimental disciplines. Projection was an idea that was brought about by Sigmund Freud in his area of psychoanalytical therapy approximately 80-90 years ago I think. What most people don’t know is that he was a doctor, in fact a neurologist not a psychiatrist or psychologist. Psychology is not only about counseling or psychotherapy; it’s actually a very small part of it but there have been quite a few studies (and come on it is pretty obvious) that generally people like to be around other people and that small spaces with no stimuli for long periods effect ones feelings and behaviours negatively.

Anyway I am not really wanting to talk about psychology I am more interested in everybody’s point of view on this topic as long as it’s not about telling me what I have or haven’t done in my life or how good it is or anything else that is offensive.

I know the mod is human but since he/she is a mod I have higher expectations. If I am offended by something a mod has said in regards to me I have the right to outlay politely that I don’t appreciate it don’t I, as I did? By the way TheLibra there is no hard feelings from my end and you have contributed greatly to this topic and I appreciate what you have said in regards to survival.

MuLongQun,

I apologize for the less than civil response earlier. It was mainly in regards to this bit about living in a bunker.

Originally posted by MuLongQun
Some people might say you’re a coward for not trying. I say people who don’t know when to say “enough is enough” are cowards.

I would say in this scenario “die and let die”.

This is what touched off the cord, so to speak. The audacity that you would call any of us "cowards" for doing what our God/Nature-given duty is: to provide food, water, shelter, and protection for our families, and the added implication that living in a bunker was just too much of a hellish existence for any non-coward.

Well, yes, I took serious umbrage with that. And the immediate image that came to mind was of someone who'd led such a pampered existence that they'd rather "bravely" commit suicide than face 2 years in a cell.

However, in your additional recent posts, you've clarified your stance considerably, but your stance is based on some very specific assumptions. Namely:

Originally posted by MuLongQun
What if after you have stayed in said bunker for a lengthy time period and decide to surface to find the earth around you is still “uninhabitable”.

As AngryAmerican already put it, the Earth might also be green and lush.

If not, then we would travel as far as we could, in search of food, just like mankind did for the previous tens of thousands of years. If the entire Earth is uninhabitable, all the way around the globe, then yeah, we'll die. But at least we'll have tried. However, a situation where the entire globe is uninhabitable AND we we manage to survive in a bunker is very highly unlikely. We'd have either been incinerated (a Texas size asteroid will boil the Earth for 65 mile downward, and I'm not digging any 100 mile down shelter), and any other "uninhabitable" scenario would leave the atmosphere devoid of oxygen, or too poisoned with other gasses to breathe. Very few shelters are going to carry their own independant full renewable air supply.

However, the chances are very high that only certain areas will be completely uninhabitable, and that you will find nature doing quite well for itself outside of those areas. Even Chernobyl is thriving with natural life right now.

Originally posted by MuLongQun
Being locked up in a small confined space is one thing. With no one else to socialize with is another. May you survive? Maybe. May you come out the same as you went in? Maybe not.

Of course you don't come out of a situation like that as the same person you went in, and if you did, you'd have to be pretty stone cold beforehand. However, you assume all of us would be alone in our little spider-holes. I have a wife and child, I've also got immediate family within mere minutes drive. Assuming we had a bunker, the odds of my being alone in it are very slim. Even if I were alone though, I know I could make it through. Maybe not the same person I was before, but I'd make it through.


The thing is, MuLongQun, your assumption we'd have to wait 2 years is pretty far-fetched, to be honest. There's really only a couple of scenarios where you really need a bunker. Nuclear War comes to mind first and foremost. Now, if you are at all familiar with how nuclear fallout works, then you'll know that each passing minute, there's less radiation than the minute before it.

Even after a direct nuclear strike, provided you are in a bunker with enough mass between you and the fallout, you're pretty safe. After about two weeks, the radiation levels will have dropped off dramatically, to the point where it's probably safe enough to walk around, at least for a few hours. Even a few days or hours is enough to buy you some time to keep from getting fried by rads.

In the area I live, we're a pretty high-profile target for a nuclear strike, and for tornados. Tornados are over in minutes, perhaps hours if you've got a "night of the twisters" scenario.

So, worst case LIKELY scenario, we're looking at about a month, tops, in said bunker. After which time, even if a nuke has reduced the land around us to ash, we can begin our migration outward towards greener pastures. If there are no greener pastures, anywhere to be found, then, we'll probably return to the bunker and wait some more. On a long enough timeline, nature recovers.

And if nature simply isn't possible of recovering, well, then, we'll end up dying, and we'd be no worse off than before if we'd just given up and drank some kool-aid or something. But at least we'll have done our best.

The biggest factor in my 'Survival' is the fact that it is not in my hands. I am a God fearing man who knows who holds my life. He always has and always will. However, I have never gotten the notion that He wants me to do Nothing in regards to any aspect of my existence. Sorry, He just didn't make me that way. Being prepared, a personal garden etc, was a way of life for all of human history. Depending on the Grocery Store is a fairly recent development.

For those who think that just giving up is acceptable. That's fine, but don't change your mind after the fact when you get hungry and come looking to take something from me and mine. I'll be the one telling you, 'Enough is Enough'!

It's long been recognized that the best defense against a psychological tool/weapon being used to influence your thoughts and opinions is an understanding that the tool exists and an ability to recognize it. Here's a snippet from an article at the American Psychological Association website followed by a link to the article.

The studies found that an opinion is more likely to be assumed to be the majority opinion when multiple group members express their opinion. However, the study also showed that hearing one person express the same opinion multiple times had nearly the same effect on listener's perception of the opinion being popular as hearing multiple people state his/her opinion.

Researchers examined the underlying processes that take place when individuals estimate the shared attitude of a group of people and how that estimation of collective opinion can be influenced by repetition from a single source. Since gauging public opinion is such an essential component in guiding our social interactions, this research has implications in almost every facet of modern day life.

www.apa.org...

Somehow, that seems to me to be relevant in this thread. I could be wrong.

The Ant and the Grasshopper

---Aesop's Fables

One summer day a grasshopper was singing and chirping and hopping about. He was having a wonderful time. He saw an ant who was busy gathering and storing grain for the winter.

"Stop and talk to me," said the grasshopper. "We can sing some songs and dance a while."

"Oh no," said the ant. "Winter is coming. I am storing up food for the winter. I think you should do the same."

"Oh, I can’t be bothered," laughed the grasshopper. "Winter is a long time off. There is plenty of food." So the grasshopper continued to dance and sing and chip and teased the ants as they continued to work.

When winter came the grasshopper had no food and was starving. He went to the ant’s house and asked, "Can I have some wheat or maybe a few kernels of corn. Without it I will starve," whined the grasshopper.

"You danced all summer," said the ants in disgust. "You can continue to dance." And they gave him no food.

Thanks, thelibra for that list. Very interesting, it's worth taking note of. I will print it and take some action based on your advice.

Although I stand by my original premise that preparation for death and mental preparation is the most important thing whether you stockpile or prepare anything or not, you have changed my opinion about something... and that is that survival doesn't have to be about, or isn't about the worst scenario. That said, I did have the nasty scenarios in mind with the OP.

With regard to posts by member MuLongQun, I understand what he is saying, and I don't agree that it is giving up, he is also referring to the nasty scenarios perhaps picking up on my thought process when I started the thread. I am surprised, but understand the anger the posts may invoke.

Originally posted by thelibra"You danced all summer," said the ants in disgust. "You can continue to dance." And they gave him no food.

I have heard this fable before but different animals. I understand the fable, or course, but I always had an issue with it.

Despite this...

"Oh, I can’t be bothered," laughed the grasshopper. "Winter is a long time off. There is plenty of food." So the grasshopper continued to dance and sing and chip and teased the ants as they continued to work.

I think the fable should have ended with the sharing to the grasshopper and a line like "you see grasshopper, you would have perished without preparation, now you understand".

It is a service to others mentality, and one of the elements I never fully got on with about survivalism was the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest mentality. I understand it, I just don't like it. But that's me.

During sitX, if I had prepared and another hadn't, would I say, "screw you, you didn't prepare, even though I warned you". I doubt it. Still, the lesson is valid.

reply to post by Prote

During sitX, if I had prepared and another hadn't, would I say, "screw you, you didn't prepare, even though I warned you". I doubt it. Still, the lesson is valid.

I think you may be interjecting something that's not there, or is not spelled out in the Story of Grasshopper and Ant. It won't be a 'screw you, hahaha attitude. There simply won't be enough for everyone.