The Cross is a Satanic Symbol Used by the Illuminati to Control You!

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by AshleyD

 

The reality is that the cross isn't a cross, it was a stake that the romans used back then for capital punishment, but the former religious symbol the "cross" was borrowed (lol) from previous religions and now you worship the idol called the "cross"... get over it, you are an idol worshiper...and moreover you worship the cross put forward by Satan to show who is in charge... and all the while you think you are worshiping something that is going to get you to heaven....LOL

[edit on 2-2-2008 by skyshow]

oh, well gee, that settles it then. thanks for setting us all straight!

(think of it as an homage)

Eric

reply to post by EricD


How funny! You got me there...guilty as charged...but I'll point out this is a sea of subjectivity and at times it makes me feel like a drowned rat!

I love a discussion of the CROSS! Anyone caring to do research on the cross may find some fascinating information. You are possibly right in connecting it to the illuminati.

According to ancient writings - Jesus is said to actually have died on a stake, pale or pile, according to the original Greek word. The writers of the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) wrote in the common loine' Greek, and used the word stauros' to mean the same thing as in the classical Greek, namely; a simple stake, or pale, without a crossbeam of any kind at any angle. Yes, the cross was used as a torture weapon and as a phallic symbol long before Jesus, and the Romans implemented it also. But there is a logical explanation as to why Jesus most likely was not persecuted this way. The invention of 'the cross' associated with Christ came in during the reign of Constantine in the 4th century. It actually had a very pagan history. All the way back to ancient Egypt.

Here is a significant point: so did the illuminati! At least secret societies started as far back as in ancient Egypt. So it would not be a surprise that the cross would be incorporated into the belief of the illumaniti or would be a symbol that they would use.

It certainly does not have a righteous background. It is my belief that Christians have been conned into believing a lie!

If anyone cares to talk more on this can go to my website: www.michelelyon.com.

Matrix Prophet

reply to post by yahn goodey


Sorry for jumping on you if I did. I have been a bit testy lately. I also found out that I have been a bit brash and possibly

I just get so frustrated sometimes when seemingly intelligent people seem to make 'stupid' statements. I think that I mostly misread your 'Chi' post... so once again sorry for coming down.


I would also like to tell each and everyone here, I respect your freedom to believe what you choose. But please do not take too much offense if someone challenges your beliefs. I find that when it comes to 'Christianity' and topics like this one, many believers have a hard time allowing themselves to keep their faith in their heart while they use their mind to get to the truth.

I only offer the insights about the cross to show you how 'organized religion' often takes beautiful, good thing and manipulates them to keep the best grip on their members. The man you all call Jesus Christ might not have made his sacrifice if he could see the golden altars built on the backs of slave labor. I know that sounds 'blashphemous' but would a man who kicked the 'money' out of the temple be pleased that gold covered 'icons' of his image are worshiped the world over.

DocMoreau

PS... I found out how Christianity gets around their Idol Worship. They call their Idols, "Icons". I just wonder if you double click on the Cross, does that take you directly to Jesus?

Originally posted by DocMoreau
PS... I found out how Christianity gets around their Idol Worship. They call their Idols, "Icons". I just wonder if you double click on the Cross, does that take you directly to Jesus?

Just letting you know that is Catholicism. Not all of Christianity. We don't approve of praying to the saints, the semi-divine status of Mary, the dedication to icons or anything of that sort. Those are all Catholic beliefs.

The church I attended before moving away after getting married had a wooden rugged cross, cement floors, and no gold or metals of any sort. Even our communion was taken with plastic cups and Matza crackers. lol

The Catholic church is the most famous for having $15 million dollar churches with all sorts of needless adornment. Sadly, other churches are now following suit. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a house of worship being nice but all that money could go to helping the poor and needy. God would rather see that happening than have a $20 million dollar church dedicated to Him.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Just letting you know that is Catholicism. Not all of Christianity.

We don't approve of praying to the saints, the semi-divine status of Mary, the dedication to icons or anything of that sort. Those are all Catholic beliefs.

.

But the book that you are reading from, is it not derived from Catholicism? Isn't the vatican the one that created the current version, and words here and there are changed here and there to make other versions (luthern, NRSV, Etc) feel special?

Originally posted by aaaauroraaaaa
But the book that you are reading from, is it not derived from Catholicism? Isn't the vatican the one that created the current version, and words here and there are changed here and there to make other versions (luthern, NRSV, Etc) feel special?

Catholics formed the Catholic Bible and Protestants formed the Protestant Bible that is free of the apocrypha. You seem to understand this so I'm not sure what you are asking. I typed a multi-paragraph reply but I'll save it as a Word document until I know for sure what you are asking. Figured I better make sure what you are asking before I submit the history of the church and canonization process. lol

Originally posted by AshleyD
Just letting you know that is Catholicism. Not all of Christianity.

We don't approve of praying to the saints, the semi-divine status of Mary, the dedication to icons or anything of that sort. Those are all Catholic beliefs.

The church I attended before moving away after getting married had a wooden rugged cross, cement floors, and no gold or metals of any sort. Even our communion was taken with plastic cups and Matza crackers. lol

The Catholic church is the most famous for having $15 million dollar churches with all sorts of needless adornment. Sadly, other churches are now following suit. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a house of worship being nice but all that money could go to helping the poor and needy. God would rather see that happening than have a $20 million dollar church dedicated to Him.

As much as I usually agree with Ashley and enjoy her posts, I did want to jump in here and offer a different perspective.

By providing a false dichotomy by referencing Catholics and then in comparison talking about Christianity by using the word 'we' seems to support a common belief amongst Protestants that Catholics aren't Christian. I don't think that this is what Ashley meant to convey, as the previous sentence would support her actually believing that Catholics ARE Christians, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Of course I enjoy ATS, so I'm prone to paranoia as it is. : )

There is also the mention of Catholic Churches that are multi-million dollar edifices without a complimentary mention of buildings like the Crystal Cathedral and other 'mega-Churches'.

Lastly, I know of no Catholics that believe that Mary is in any form 'divine'.

Sorry for the off topic brief rant!

Eric

reply to post by aaaauroraaaaa


What makes you think Christians follow anything in the bible? See all those denominations? So many varieties of Orthodox, so many branches of Catholicism, and a Protestant church for every digit of Pi? Those all exist because someone wanted to skip this rule or another and went off to do their own thing. The end result is that Christians maintain there is no standard at all to hold them to, thus making them utterly immune to criticism on any front at all, with the defense of "that's not us, that's them."

And yet they still talk about Christianity as a solid body at every other moment. Odd dichotomy.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by EricD


Thanks for clarifying that for me, Eric. I've mentioned on other threads that I do consider Catholics my brothers and sisters in Christ but that I don't agree with their doctrinal changes and dogma.

But for some reason, when non Christians think of Christianity they generally think of the pope, bishop, Rome, and Catholicism. In the end, I try to stress that Catholicism is not the entirety of Christianity and technically wasn't even the first. It is only a part of Christianity even if it is a pretty darn big part.

Lastly, I know of no Catholics that believe that Mary is in any form 'divine'.

There's now talks of making her the fourth member of the trinity. Would that be called the "quadnity?" Not sure if that is remotely true- read it the other day on a website. They don't worship Mary as of yet but they do believe she is an intercessor between them and God like we believe Jesus is for us. Not a goddess though, fortunately!

But, yes. I do consider Catholics Christians. Thanks for helping me clarify.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


You're going to hate me for saying this but I unintentionally use that defense strategy all the time. Everyone can complain about the Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, or any other church all they want. I'm nondenominational independant! We are the constant dodge ball champions. We can always say, "We didn't do it!"

Yes, I'm kidding. Well, sort of...

reply to post by AshleyD


Just blame the Calvinists. It's what they're there for, right?

I've seen you fall back on this before. Along with that stupid "Gosh, they're on to us!" crap. It's basically you evading something that you don't really want to address, by either claiming exemption (Conveniently you belong to the "make it up as we argue" denomination) or by outright mocking whoever's posting.

And you're hardly alone. It seems to be a religion-wide defense mechanism, to either evade blame (Hell, your whole religion is based on that, so not that surprising) or by deriding who ever's raising questions (Even other Christians, little miss "Catholics are idolaters")

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Wow. That was unduly harsh and hardly accurate.

It seems to me that Ashley is extremely patient and well thought out in her responses. If there is a tongue in cheek reply, it is usually in response to someone who seems to believe in their own omniscience. Sort of like you, in ascribing motives that you couldn't possibly be sure of unless you had a private conversation with Ashley and asked or had psychic powers.

If you do have psychic powers that include prognostication, the lottery here in NY is over a 100 million. Please forward me some good numbers.

Eric

[edit on 5-2-2008 by EricD]

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

You're going to hate me for saying this but I unintentionally use that defense strategy all the time. Everyone can complain about the Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, or any other church all they want. I'm nondenominational independant! We are the constant dodge ball champions. We can always say, "We didn't do it!"

Yes, I'm kidding. Well, sort of...

I can't believe I just read that.

A: I don't hate you for saying it. I just think you are ignorant (not a jab, not calling you stupid, ignorant is not a word that should be taken as degrading imo)
B: The above paragraph honestly just makes me sick...
C: You never did answer my last zietgiest posts from earlier in the thread.


"Have Faith in God". That is an example of Dogma. If that the religion a person follows can be completely scientifically explained, there is no Dogma. I have yet to see any version of the bible completely backed by science, and thus, a person must "have faith" in the words of the bible. How is that not dogma?

Originally posted by AshleyD

dogma.

Originally posted by AshleyD

There's now talks of making her the fourth member of the trinity. Would that be called the "quadnity?"

Not sure if that is remotely true- read it the other day on a website. They don't worship Mary as of yet but they do believe she is an intercessor between them and God like we believe Jesus is for us. Not a goddess though, fortunately!

I stay fairly up to date on Catholicism and the only places that I've heard this are on anti-Catholic forums and websites.

Eric

reply to post by EricD


Damn. Illiteracy truly IS the scourge of the internet these days.

You do realize Ashley and I have been going back and forth for a little over a week on numerous subjects with many, many posts between us, correct? I'm not actually working off of a blank slate here.

As for your lotto numbers... First off, lotto numbers aren't constantly dropping hints to me in varied contexts and approaches. People are far easier to read than random numbers, as they tend to be more verbose and conceited. Second, as a Christian, your wealth is in heaven, is it not? Go give your coat to someone who asketh it of you, or something.

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by AshleyD

 

The reality is that the cross isn't a cross, it was a stake that the romans used back then for capital punishment, but the former religious symbol the "cross" was borrowed (lol) from previous religions and now you worship the idol called the "cross"... get over it, you are an idol worshiper...and moreover you worship the cross put forward by Satan to show who is in charge... and all the while you think you are worshiping something that is going to get you to heaven....LOL

[edit on 2-2-2008 by skyshow]

oh, well gee, that settles it then. thanks for setting us all straight!

(think of it as an homage)

Eric

As much as people (including myself) don't want to admit to being wrong about some things we've learned to accept (if not totally believe), you are exactly right, sir.

EricD, you might want to pay more attention to the REAL history being brought out in this thread. According to Roman record, the means of crucification was a STAKE at that time. The cross came into use hundreds of years later. Imagine everyone today walking around with a STICK around their necks . And yes, no matter who tries to sugar coat or justify it, the cross has been and still does represent an idolatry (object worship), and causes anyone who uses it as such and puts there faith in it as a "symbol" of the Messiah, (even unknowingly) to break one of the Ten Commandments, much as the roman universal "catholic"church forced Sunday (day of the sun god) on it's members as the Sabbath and caused them to break ANOTHER, but that's another story. Scripture calls for the"End of the Times", a time of Great Changes. Many people will find the Enemy has misled them and countless others. I believe that the entire world will be given a chance to see the Truth and choose it if they wish (TV, Internet?) at this time. PLEASE keep an open mind in the near future. KNOWLEDGE WILL BE INCREASED IN THOSE DAYS, and those days are very near. Scripture says, "HE WHO HAS EARS......"

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Yknot]

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I love a discussion of the CROSS! Anyone caring to do research on the cross may find some fascinating information. You are possibly right in connecting it to the illuminati.

According to ancient writings - Jesus is said to actually have died on a stake, pale or pile, according to the original Greek word. The writers of the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) wrote in the common loine' Greek, and used the word stauros' to mean the same thing as in the classical Greek, namely; a simple stake, or pale, without a crossbeam of any kind at any angle. Yes, the cross was used as a torture weapon and as a phallic symbol long before Jesus, and the Romans implemented it also. But there is a logical explanation as to why Jesus most likely was not persecuted this way. The invention of 'the cross' associated with Christ came in during the reign of Constantine in the 4th century. It actually had a very pagan history. All the way back to ancient Egypt.

Here is a significant point: so did the illuminati! At least secret societies started as far back as in ancient Egypt. So it would not be a surprise that the cross would be incorporated into the belief of the illumaniti or would be a symbol that they would use.

It certainly does not have a righteous background. It is my belief that Christians have been conned into believing a lie!

If anyone cares to talk more on this can go to my website: www.michelelyon.com.

Matrix Prophet

Wow, I type to slow ;( and not two well ). Just caught this. Well said.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by Yknot]

In relation to secret societies as far back as ancient Egypt - I read some text of a historical document which is parallel to the gospels. I personally do believe that a man who is referred to as Christ walked the earth, however not how Christians perceive him.

The document stated that the 'Association of Essenes' tried to gain his wisdom by recruiting him. The Christ figure stated he would think about it and to give him three days to consider it. He fled during this time to get away from them.

Also it stated there that the Essenes would help him by escaping death of the crucifixion, the text states he drank from a cup three times, not stating what it was, however described how he was feeling - sick with terror and confusion - only to be comforted by Judas Iscariot. The Essenes then helped clean his wounds after being brought down, and left him to recover for the three days.

I think it also stated that he was telling others that the 'Association of Essenes' was a dangerous cult - and that the future cult descendant from them will try and proclaim that he was one of them.

Wikipedia reference "The Essenes"

The Essenes were a Jewish religious group that flourished from the 2nd century BC to the 1st century AD. Many separate, but related religious groups of that era shared similar mystic, eschatological, messianic, and ascetic beliefs. These groups are referred to by various scholars as the "Essenes".

Thx

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
"Gosh, they're on to us!" crap. It's basically you evading something that you don't really want to address

Several Christians on this thread have already answered this accusation numerous times (so no evasion) but we are still being told we worship the cross. Hence, the "they're onto us!" statement. It's all been answered (so no evasion) and I will answer it once again in this comment (so no evasion). It would be like me saying this to you since you admitted to being an animist:

Me: You and all animists worship vegetables.
You: Um. No we don't.
Me: Yes you do! I know your beliefs better than you do.
You: No. Seriously. We don't. You're ignorant of the facts.
Me: I am not! You worship vegetables! Denial!
You: Yes, it's true. I set up a shrine every night and worship tomatoes.

Again, here is rebuttal of some of the main accusations in this thread:

1) Christians worship the cross: No we don't. We worship Jesus and God.

2) The Romans crucified victims using a stake-like post: Not necessarily. The Romans crucified victims on a "t" shaped cross, an "x" shaped cross, possibly a stake, and sometimes the victim was marched right up to a tree and crucified at eye level.

3) The cross is a symbol used by the Illuminati for control: By most serious historical accounts, the Illuminati wasn't even created until the 18th century. The cross was used in Christian symbolism for centuries before that. Also, can anyone provide evidence that the Illuminati still exists? Furthermore, the cross does not automatically turn someone into a zombie. It has no hypnotic power. We are not controlled by it.

4) The cross is pagan: Does anyone not realize how many times "t's," "x's," triangles, stars, circles, and who knows what other symbols are used for different things repeatedly? Is the American flag Satanic because it has a five pointed star? Let's not even bother with the fact the Satanic star differs in form and meaning. It must all be the same because it's a five pointed star.

Pretty much all nonsense allegations that have been answered. Hence, the "we might as well come clean" joke. No one is going to provide reasonable evidence or the smoking gun so why take it seriously?

[edit on 2/5/2008 by AshleyD]