The Cross is a Satanic Symbol Used by the Illuminati to Control You!

Originally posted by aaaauroraaaaa
I don't hate you for saying it. I just think you are ignorant (not a jab, not calling you stupid, ignorant is not a word that should be taken as degrading imo

No worries and I'm not insulted because I've never seen you be rude. But I think it is ignorant to think any group consisting of over two billion people isn't going to have nuts mixed in with the fruit. It is also ignorant to think one person should answer for the actions of another. It's personal responsibility.

We can chastise them (and we do) or say we don't agree with them. We can even vocally oppose them (and we do). But I'm not going to come to their defense when I think they are wrong. Until I do something personally, then scold me as a person. I can't account for what the horrible leaders did during the Inquisition, what those did in Salem, or for the nut job that bombs an abortion clinic today. It makes me sick and many other Christians sick. But those were them. This is us.

The above paragraph honestly just makes me sick...

Should I judge you according to the actions done by those who believe what you do... especially when you are so vocal about saying what they are doing or did is wrong? It wouldn't be fair to you. Especially if you were very open about being upset with their actions.

You never did answer my last zietgiest posts from earlier in the thread.

I didn't see what you said and am too lazy to go back through it but I answered many things about Zeitgeist on another thread. See some of my comments here:

Example 1: General rebuttal to show the unreliability of the video.
Example 2: Jesus vs. Krishna.
Example 3: Horus links.
Example 4: Various "Solar God" answers.
Example 5: Pisces and Aquarius allegations.
Example 6: General Zodiac accusations.

You get the idea. I just don't consider Zeitgeist remotely reliable.

reply to post by AshleyD


Thanks for posting yet again...I might be the one so delighted to inform you in the interest of avoiding further circular arguments, that the conversation has moved forward (referencing many of the posts on here...light years forward!!!! good job everyone!!!), actually since the OP, these arguments are not only old and predictable, but they don't hold water because they are based on the very belief system that is being held suspect with the opening premise. But for the record I think the Webster's Universal College Dictionary definition of the word "Illuminati" might help shed some light on things at least with some of the blurry misconceptions:

Il*lu*mi*na*ti n.pl., singt. -to 1. Persons claiming to possess superior enlightenment. 2. (cap.) any of various religious sects claiming special enlightenment.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Several Christians on this thread have already answered this accusation numerous times (so no evasion) but we are still being told we worship the cross. Hence, the "they're onto us!" statement. It's all been answered (so no evasion) and I will answer it once again in this comment (so no evasion). It would be like me saying this to you since you admitted to being an animist:

But I haven't seen why Christians treat it so lavishly. Or why they get so upset if you put one in a bed pan. Maybe you don't worship it, but from an outside perspective, it's amazingly easy to make the mistake. Sort of like I've seen many people claim that Muslims worship the Koran.

Me: You and all animists worship vegetables.
You: Um. No we don't.
Me: Yes you do! I know your beliefs better than you do.
You: No. Seriously. We don't. You're ignorant of the facts.
Me: I am not! You worship vegetables! Denial!
You: Yes, it's true. I set up a shrine every night and worship tomatoes.

You honestly wouldn't be too far off the mark, there. And it really depends on if I want my tomato sauce to be good.

Again, here is rebuttal of some of the main accusations in this thread:

2) The Romans crucified victims using a stake-like post: Not necessarily. The Romans crucified victims on a "t" shaped cross, an "x" shaped cross, possibly a stake, and sometimes the victim was marched right up to a tree and crucified at eye level.

Stringing someone by their wrists from a post does seem more efficient. And, well, how common were trees in the Levant at the time?

3) The cross is a symbol used by the Illuminati for control: By most serious historical accounts, the Illuminati wasn't even created until the 18th century. The cross was used in Christian symbolism for centuries before that. Also, can anyone provide evidence that the Illuminati still exists? Furthermore, the cross does not automatically turn someone into a zombie. It has no hypnotic power. We are not controlled by it.

I never bought into the illuminati, myself. Seems way too simple-minded

4) The cross is pagan: Does anyone not realize how many times "t's," "x's," triangles, stars, circles, and who knows what other symbols are used for different things repeatedly? Is the American flag Satanic because it has a five pointed star? Let's not even bother with the fact the Satanic star differs in form and meaning. It must all be the same because it's a five pointed star.

I would not doubt its use replaced the fish as Christianity spread through Europe because of the significance of the symbol in Northern Europe. It doesn't show in the scripture, but there's a lot of European paganism still stuck in the culture of European Christianity. There's a reason the Middle Eastern and Russian / Asian churches are so very different from the European and American ones after all, and I would wager they're closer to the root than those.

Pretty much all nonsense allegations that have been answered. Hence, the "we might as well come clean" joke. No one is going to provide reasonable evidence or the smoking gun so why take it seriously?

If you're expecting a "smoking gun" regarding a largely apocryphic symbol in use by numerous religions for thousands of years, well, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Sharpen your snark!

Originally posted by skyshow
Thanks for posting yet again...I might be the one so delighted to inform you in the interest of avoiding further circular arguments, that the conversation has moved forward...light years forward!!!!

Was that in reply to you? No. Apparently you missed the comment from another poster who suggested the questions had been evaded by Christians. So, I answered again to let them know it had already been answered and how. Why do you have to be such a rude thread host? Yikes. Calm down before you pop a vein.

[edit on 2/5/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Perhaps you should have refered them back to one of your "Zeitgest has been debunked" posts that we have already been over...the evidence isn't sufficient to debunk it, and thus people remain skeptical about the mainstream Christian dogma and doctrine you profess on here continually and continue to preach. If you take me reminding you of how the arguments you have submitted and are circular and are unable to debate the merit of that statement, but instead choose to take a part of the debate for some sort of personal rudeness, then that is your issue to deal with. Others, myself included, find it rude that you continue on the war path of trying to prove that your web sites show that this film has been debunked, when they have not, and that further more this thread is about the cross and how it is interpreted as a Satanic symbol used by the Illuminati (I even provided you with a dictionary definition of that specific term) to control you. I watched Zeitgest, and it does a lot to debunk the Christian myth, but correct if I'm wrong, but I don't think it brought up the idea of the cross being Satanic and used as a control device...it did however show it's pegan origins later to be coopted into this farce we see today with the "two billion" of you (I actually will dispute this number but that's for another thread) who follow it.

I'm sorry if it's harsh, sometimes the reality isn't as soft and fluffy as our fantasy's would have us believe, but it hardly makes me a rude, what did you call it? uh, oh...thread host. I merely started the Op. I don't work for this site so I'm not sure I'm a "host". I would rather consider myself an interested party in the topic just like everyone else. Just because we don't agree, and the debate is not always comfortable especially in front of evidence that is difficult to refute, and thus may seem hostile towards you're self professed belief does not mean that the other debater is "rude". To suggest so IMHO is what is rude.

I'm submitting a quote from the sun vs son thread because I can't make my exact thoughts about this any clearer. Nearly everything this poster posts is amazing and so it's very apropos here and now:

You know what, you are not very smart, I was trying to show you where Judaism comes from Isis, Ra, and El are old religious cults that merged to form IsisRaEl, or what we know today as Israel. Its unbeliveable how you twist things around. It has always been said that in the "End Times" the words of the Holy books will be twisted around to serve evil, that millons will follow a path of darkness and those that speak the truth will be ridiculed and put to death. When do you think the twisting of the words are going to take place??? Don't you get it its already been done, you are so proud of that device used to put one of the greatest teachers the world has ever seen to death, FAKE Christians. Is that not evil giving praise to a device that was used to kill people. I think that cross is the mark of the beast. If there is a time to come when millons will be following the wrong path and few will follow the light, what path do you think your on right now, the Roman Empire made Jesus the new pagan sacrifice and you fools are runing around worshiping it with out question. You worship a pagan God, a Human Sacrifice and are oblivious to the facts.

Quoting: XcLuciFer in reply to a AshleyD post

I couldn't agree more.

[edit on 6-2-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by skyshow
further more this thread is about the cross and how it is interpreted as a Satanic symbol used by the Illuminati (I even provided you with a dictionary definition of that specific term) to control you.

You just criticized me for talking about the original thread topic in your comment HERE. You then condescendingly noted that the conversation had progressed and that I needed to move on. So I do and then you remind me what the original thread was about?

No logical person can win against such insanity, Skyshow. Tell you what: You get it together and get back to me. So far I see nothing but more Mad Hatter antics coming from you. "No, we're discussing this. Get with it! No, we're discussing that now! Hey! We're back over here now, Stupid! Stay on topic!"

Anyways, I'm now departing whatever alternate reality you seem to be living in.

reply to post by AshleyD


Maybe I'm in the wrong for thinking you have about an average IQ, when it appears to be a lot lower, is this the case, if so I'm in the bad to assume you have average understanding and should have explained things in more detail just for you? Because, and I'm not digging into you, I am being completely honest here when I ask, do you not understand something so basic as that? "moving on" in that context obviously meant (based on the reply to your previous post) that it has moved on beyond the Zeitgest arguments you continue to put forward that I and others are pointing out do not close the case for reasons already talked about. Anyone following this could have seen that, but if I wasn't clear enough, then I'm sorry. Do you understand now? If not let me know, and I can further drag this out on the rug for you, and perhaps draw a picture for you, or are you just trying to turn the thread into some kind of circus in hopes it gets shut down?

Wow, you take spreading discontent to all new heights, and I really wish you would stop it and say something intelligent that we can progress with or nothing at all. Grow up, please!

[edit on 6-2-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by skyshow


In your previous reply to me HERE stating that the conversation had moved on when I was discussing your original post, the "Reply to AshleyD" at the top of your comment links to THIS comment of mine concerning the original topic of the cross.

And then of course what you mentioned in your little chastisement went back to the original post and Illuminati (nothing to do with my reply to another posting asking twice about Zeitgeist that I didn't see the first time). If that was your gripe, then why not get onto the person who kept asking me about Zeitgeist when I was only the one replying- not bringing it up. I'll tell you why: because as shown above, that isn't the comment you were replying to.

[edit on 2/6/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


I have no idea what you are talking about. I tried to make sense out of it, I really did, I even went back and reread the posts...it may be simply be due to confusion in that you might be thinking my post was in reply to something else; indeed I didn't put forth the exact quote you made that I was replying to, and for that I"m sorry. There's little else I can do though except say that you are not making any sense to me whatsoever???



[edit on 6-2-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Maybe I'm in the wrong for thinking you have about an average IQ, when it appears to be a lot lower, is this the case, if so I'm in the bad to assume you have average understanding and should have explained things in more detail just for you?


[edit on 6-2-2008 by skyshow]

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. Did you REALLY write a few posts ahead of this that Ashley was being rude? And then you had the cajones to post this?

As an aside, you may want to watch your sentence structure when you are insulting someone else's intelligence. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Eric

reply to post by EricD


Yes, it was a ridiculous post--one that should not have been made in a condescending manner, and the structure is in horrible shape too eh? Posting tends to get this way...you go back and forth, back and forth, all hours of the night, and sometimes people mis type things, make spelling errors, etc...I always figured the main point of it all was not so much to create publisher quality writing, but rather the free flow and exchange of ideas and information. At times it can get really frustrating given the lack of human body language and facial expressions that one can see were we "blogging" in person. Without the unconscious body language to help us with understanding and conveying meaning, sometimes errors in judgment occur and the wrong message is sent or received.

Thanks however to pointing out my flaw there and obvious display of hypocrisy. However, I'm sure you know that IQ and writing/spelling (sentence structure) displayed on online blogs most likely does not perfectly correlate with IQ, in fact, I would wager it's a very small one, but I'll give you the benefit here and hold true to my admission and say sorry that it bothers you.

Now back to the thread: is it of any interest to anyone at all that Tel Aviv is on the 32* latitude, and in general Israel itself is in the approximate location of 33* longitude and latitude. Is there anything to this? In masonry there is 33 degrees in levels of accomplishment. There may be nothing to this other than coincidence, and there are some amazing pictures over at www.jordanmaxwell.com. I also find the one with the obelisk over the top of the union jack, or two crosses "double cross" in the Vatican court yard...an aerial view shows the entire scene to be a key hole. What do you guys think? obvious symbols here having to do with control structures associated with government and religion....

[edit on 8-2-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 8-2-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 8-2-2008 by skyshow]

I think it is interesting that Christ was crucified on the cross and henceforth all grabbed it and associated it with him = Christianity.

Did Christ ever say, take this cross and use it to remind you of me?

No, but he did say, take this bread and my blood...so with respect to using the cross to ward of vampires? Hmm...seems contradictive.

Anyway, interesting read.

cheers

yeah, when you really tear into Christianity, it soon becomes quickly apparent that everything is back arse backwards!!!

Some of these other threads talking about the "mark of the beast"...some are beginning to think the cross is it! Also the priests and followers who make the sign (mark) constantly as a show of allegiance...

I just want to *bump* this topic back up to the top...and not just because I created the topic; even if I didn't create it and just happend upon it, I would still believe that this topic is by far the most consperiatorial of any of the othere topics on here: this is the by far the most profound topic area for the religious conspiricies section of all ATS...much more speculation, research, and commentary is due on this topic...I can't believe more of you are not jumping all over this???? Don't be afraid to move beyond the dogma and let go of the layers upon layers of brain washing as I have, and look at this issue as though you are high up in a craft looking down upon it all...seriously; symbology...organized religion...power structures...history of civilization...organized guilds and crafts...huge multi national indeed global financial and political interists (this includes the drug trade)...and you don't think religion and all it's millions of followers are not foder? The cross is only one of a huge tool box of utensiles used to manipulate and control the masses of Earth for to serve the needs of just a few...are you going to continue to be manipulated, or are you going to break free from this farse once and for all? The choice is yours, but don't continue to be afraid. It's ok to ask questions. It's ok to think for yourself. It's ok to leave behind a big lie. Indeed, the biggest story ever sold!!!

It's so freakin' obvious...dude, if it were a serpant in your boots and you were just about to slip your foot in...guess what....your ankle is bitten...

Please, keep this thread moving...

Were not done yet!!!!

Sky,

[edit on 9-3-2008 by skyshow]

I know I'm a just a tad bias (he hee). However, out of the many threads on here I have read, nothing drips more of conspiracy than this one, and I would like to bump it back up to the top of the list and add a call to more dialog on the topic. I think there is a ton of evidence to back this up. There have been many great contributions in posts on here and I urge everyone who hasn't read this to take a look at this thread and research it a bit and see what you can add. I would love to read more on this topic, and think it's extremely apropo.

Thanks,
Sky.

(please flag and star)

One problem with your idea....In the Hebrew: Satan is: HA SATAN which means THE EVIL. Another term for HA SATAN is YETZER RA = evil impulse or evil desire. Thus: Satan is our own desires and based on biblical texts, created by G_D giving us freewill. I find it funny that many will attack a Christian for a MAN G_D but so many will believe in a MAN ANTI DEITY.

DNG

"Moreover the gold and silver crosses are expensive and could easily be melted down and sold to help with shelter, food and clothing for the poor."


--John 12:6

"This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."

sorry but its not true read a history book the illuminati were a part of the free mason founded in 1776 and disbanded in 1784-6 so yeah your theory are rubbish

Originally posted by Thurisaz
I think it is interesting that Christ was crucified on the cross and henceforth all grabbed it and associated it with him = Christianity.

Did Christ ever say, take this cross and use it to remind you of me?

No, but he did say, take this bread and my blood...so with respect to using the cross to ward of vampires? Hmm...seems contradictive.

Anyway, interesting read.

cheers

Hi Thurisaz/

If one was to take what Jesus Christ said Literally, then,yes,He did say ....
'' (Mark 8:34 - 9:1), Jesus says, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me" (v.34)...... taking up our cross is to be crucified with Christ.
The meaning behind the ''pick up your Cross and follow me'' is that each of us has our own issues we must deal with!
To what extent is each to his/her own capacity...we all have our dealings in life and it is up to us on how to deal with them...some have more, some have less to deal with!
Jesus Christ dealt with suffering on the Cross, for all mankind!
To display a Cross, or to wear a Cross or to do the Sign of the Cross is a remembrance of what it stands for!
It is a sign given by God, a reminder of what it has accomplished!
“O Death,
where is thy sting?
O Hades,
where is thy victory''?

In ancient times, people would have thought about pain, suffering, and death.
The Cross was a sign of the worst torture one could suffer.
It was a cursed sign.
And yet, when Jesus willingly accepted the Cross, when he willingly accepted to die a criminal’s death, when he willingly accepted to be ridiculed, hated, and killed, he changed the Cross from a symbol of death and despair into a symbol of life and hope.
The Sign of the Cross~LINK

The Cross becomes the Sign of Victory over death!

We live in a world with many different signs ,each symbolizing something of a significance!
There's Sign language for the deaf...
Signs on our roads...
The Cross is also a sign that ''Death'' has been conquered!
It is not a sign that we call upon for magical powers or to have it answer to us!
Another great example on what Christ accomplished on the Cross

''By His death Christ ransomed man out of servitude to sin,
and redeemed man from the eternal consequences of sin which had been incurred at the Fall.
Christ Himself spoke of this.
He said of Himself: The Son of Man came to give His life as a ransom for many (Matt. 20:28).
In the Epistle to the Hebrews we read: Christ is the mediator of the new testament,
that by means of death,
for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament,
they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Heb. 9:15).
And in the book of Apocalypse: Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy Blood (Apoc. 5:9).

For since by man(ADAM) came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead (I Cor. 15:21).

Sorry for the long reply to your post!

ICXC NIKA
helen