Ah, here’s the rub though: Where did these “Aliens” come from? More aliens? Alright, where did those come from? At some point we have to concede that something came from nothing, and this is one of the big gnawing points of philosophy, and science. Whether the Big Bang, the Holy Light of creation, God, or whatever your beliefs are, the universe had a beginning. What was there at this beginning, and what caused it. Extradimensional beings? Again, what was the *first* cause.

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Thats form an ignorant human stand point, are we to believe that God is as ignorant as humans?

This again is based on individual opinion and perspective. We are trying to say capitol punishment is evil. Is it? Some don't think so. Some do. God says I will destroy the wicked to spare the righteous just like we sentence murderers to death to protect the law abiding citizens. Or we could put them in prison. God also has a prison. This is what we know as Hell. See what I mean?

We can wax philosophical and say we have no right to imprison or execute people who commit atrocities. God says He has the right because He made you. If I tell my son to clean his room and he asks who am I to tell him what to do, I tell him I'm his mother. I brought him into this world. If God tells us not to kill another human being and we ask Him what right does He have to tell us what to do, He tells us I am God and I created you.

God is no more evil than punishing the wicked than a jury is evil for sentencing a murderer to death row. There are laws. We know them in advance. Whatever consequences we reap are a result of our own choice.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Thats form an ignorant human stand point, are we to believe that God is as ignorant as humans?

This again is based on individual opinion and perspective. We are trying to say capitol punishment is evil. Is it? Some don't think so. Some do. God says I will destroy the wicked to spare the righteous just like we sentence murderers to death to protect the law abiding citizens. Or we could put them in prison. God also has a prison. This is what we know as Hell. See what I mean?

We can wax philosophical and say we have no right to imprison or execute people who commit atrocities. God says He has the right because He made you. If I tell my son to clean his room and he asks who am I to tell him what to do, I tell him I'm his mother. I brought him into this world. If God tells us not to kill another human being and we ask Him what right does He have to tell us what to do, He tells us I am God and I created you.

God is no more evil than punishing the wicked than a jury is evil for sentencing a murderer to death row. There are laws. We know them in advance. Whatever consequences we reap are a result of our own choice.

Ok so if your child did something wrong you would kill it to teach it a lesson. Is that what you are saying?

Originally posted by BlaznRob
Ah, here’s the rub though: Where did these “Aliens” come from? More aliens? Alright, where did those come from? At some point we have to concede that something came from nothing, and this is one of the big gnawing points of philosophy, and science. Whether the Big Bang, the Holy Light of creation, God, or whatever your beliefs are, the universe had a beginning. What was there at this beginning, and what caused it. Extradimensional beings? Again, what was the *first* cause.

Look, I don't claim to have all the answers, all I'm saying is people are baseing their life on this stuff and they really have no idea who these beings are. And IMO its pretty narrow minded to look at this from one point of a religious view, it like trying to form a picture with only 1 piece of the puzzle!

Originally posted by BlaznRob
Ah, here’s the rub though: Where did these “Aliens” come from? More aliens? Alright, where did those come from? At some point we have to concede that something came from nothing, and this is one of the big gnawing points of philosophy, and science. Whether the Big Bang, the Holy Light of creation, God, or whatever your beliefs are, the universe had a beginning. What was there at this beginning, and what caused it. Extradimensional beings? Again, what was the *first* cause.

Agreed...so many questions...so few good answers.

Has anyone ever heard of the old line " 2 wrongs don't make a right. And besides its very clear that the punishment issued out has nothing to do with teaching any one a lesson, this guy is angry his intent is malice.

Jehovah is not an evil god. He is just trying to protect us from hurting ourselves, you see all the things that are happening now and basicly we are hurting ourselves, by hurting the world.

Originally posted by tati.12
Jehovah is not an evil god. He is just trying to protect us from hurting ourselves, you see all the things that are happening now and basicly we are hurting ourselves, by hurting the world.

So then you think the only reasonable way to teach us, protect us, is by doing the same to humanity. So why is it against the law to hit your children? If you put your young influenceable child in the same room with and older corrupt adult, would you blame the ingnorant child for being influenced by the corrupt adult, or your self for creating the situation?

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Ok so if your child did something wrong you would kill it to teach it a lesson. Is that what you are saying?

No, because I am not a judge and jury. If I walked into my son's room one day and found half eaten murdered human bodies stuffed under the bed and in the closet then I would call the police. We have a justice system and structure for crimes. God has a justice system as well but unlike our flawed system, He is the ultimate judge and jury.

You're ultimate gripe comes down to the liberal philosophy that it is an infringement upon human rights to have laws and consequences. It's a sad society when we actually get offended when cannibals, murderers, those who engage in human sacrifice, and harm children and infants are given justice that costs them their lives. They knew before hand this is detestable and did it anyways. Call some juries evil while you're at it because they pass death sentences every day as well.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Ok so if your child did something wrong you would kill it to teach it a lesson. Is that what you are saying?

No, because I am not a judge and jury. If I walked into my son's room one day and found half eaten murdered human bodies stuffed under the bed and in the closet then I would call the police. We have a justice system and structure for crimes. God has a justice system as well but unlike our flawed system, He is the ultimate judge and jury.

You're ultimate gripe comes down to the liberal philosophy that it is an infringement upon human rights to have laws and consequences. It's a sad society when we actually get offended when cannibals, murderers, those who engage in human sacrifice, and harm children and infants are given justice that costs them their lives. They knew before hand this is detestable and did it anyways. Call some juries evil while you're at it because they pass death sentences every day as well.

Ok I understand killing some one for vengeance. But you can't say that the person you are killing is going to learn a lesson and become a better person. Again 2 wrongs don't make a right. Their is no intelligence in vengeance. And whats going down in the Holy books is much more than a eye for an eye.

[edit on 1/18/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Anyone care to answer this question?

If you put your young influenceable child in the same room with and older corrupt adult, would you blame the ingnorant child for being influenced by the corrupt adult, or your self for creating the situation?

I came to the conclusion several years ago that Christians don't give God
credit for being loving at all. Most Evangelicals in particular feel that God
is sending 70% of the world's population to hell upon physical death,
because only 30% of the world claim to be Christians.

Since God knows everything, including who will choose to be, or not to be
a Christian, it's unfathomable (to me) that an all-loving God would keep
producing new human life into a world, knowing in advance that 70% of
them will have to be sentenced to hell.

While I still consider myself a "believer" in Jesus and what he stands for,
I've started backing away from the belief that Christianity is the ONLY way
to Heaven. If that were the case, then Jehovah-God would indeed be an
Evil creator. I refuse to accept that conclusion. The planet is full of too
many wonderful beautiful people who are not Christians.
-cwm

[edit on 18-1-2008 by carewemust]

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
And we are talking about God, not people on juries...

Yup. But you asked me what I (a person) would do with my son (a person). You brought up the analogy so I answered it. But you kind of answered your own question to this entire thread in that one statement. We're erroneously trying to assume man's logic and definition of justice onto God's logic and definition of justice. Do you see where this is a problem? Apparently because you just made the distinction between the two.

If you put your young influenceable child in the same room with and older corrupt adult, would you blame the ingnorant child for being influenced by the corrupt adult, or your self for creating the situation?

This stinks of the liberal way of thinking: We're all just products of our environment. It's not little Timmy's fault he killed a family of four while driving drunk. He didn't get a pony on his 5th birthday. There is no longer any such thing as personal responsibility in our society.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
And we are talking about God, not people on juries...

Yup. But you asked me what I (a person) would do with my son (a person). You brought up the analogy so I answered it. But you kind of answered your own question to this entire thread in that one statement. We're erroneously trying to assume man's logic and definition of justice onto God's logic and definition of justice. Do you see where this is a problem? Apparently because you just made the distinction between the two.

If you put your young influenceable child in the same room with and older corrupt adult, would you blame the ingnorant child for being influenced by the corrupt adult, or your self for creating the situation?

This stinks of the liberal way of thinking: We're all just products of our environment. It's not little Timmy's fault he killed a family of four while driving drunk. He didn't get a pony on his 5th birthday. There is no longer any such thing as personal responsibility in our society.

I don't understand why you think you know, what proof do you have beside that of the Roman Empire story. You didn't answer the question. You keep saying liberal which I think is funny. You must already know in your heart that this type of thinking is not only primitive but unreasonable, flat out stupid. The human race is stuck on stupid!!!!

[edit on 1/18/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Hello XcLuciFer,

Gnosticism asserts that there are a number of Jewish words (Elohim, Jehovah, El Shaddai, Adonai, etc) all of which have been reduced to "God" in the English translation of the bible.

Jehovah and Jahve are written with the same four Jewish letters (the Tetragrammaton), but the pronunciation of these two names are quite different. These are two different beings, and in Gnosticism many of the quotes which appear in your OP are attributed to Jahve, a fallen angel.

Just wanted to point out that there are alternative viewpoints which may answer your particular questions.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

[edit on 18/1/2008 by AkashicWanderer]

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Anyone care to answer this question?

If you put your young influenceable child in the same room with and older corrupt adult, would you blame the ingnorant child for being influenced by the corrupt adult, or your self for creating the situation?

Survival of the fitest is the rule of growth.

If our father has several children that are put into a room with an "older" curupt child. If the older crupt child convinced half of those children to jump off the roof, and half the children are lost, while the other half know better and let the crupt child fall away.

Being a winny bitch won't get no one no where.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Hello XcLuciFer,

Gnosticism asserts that there are a number of Jewish words (Elohim, Jehovah, El Shaddai, Adonai, etc) all of which have been reduced to "God" in the English translation of the bible.

Jehovah and Jahve are written with the same four Jewish letters (the Tetragrammaton), but the pronunciation of these two names are quite different. These are two different beings, and in Gnosticism many of the quotes which appear in your OP are attributed to Jahve, a fallen angel.

Just wanted to point out that there are alternative viewpoints which may answer your particular questions.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

[edit on 18/1/2008 by AkashicWanderer]

If you are implying that the Bible is about more than one Deity, I'm aware of that but I'm trying to keep it simple here. Get people to think.

If thats not what you meant sorry=)...