3 Overlooked Causes for World War III

A couple of comments:

1) Every time we've had mass starvation during the 20th Century it's the result of war or deliberate political acts. I can cite the following examples: the deliberate collectivization of farms in the Ukraine in 1928 to 1932 (most estimates place about 14 million Ukrainians dead from forced exile, labor camps, mass shootings and outright starvation); the constant warfare in China during the 1920's to 1940's which hurt food distribution; the ill-advised Great Leap Forward in China that also hurt food distribution; and deliberate policies by governments in Africa in the second half of the 20th Century.

2) We've only begun the technological revolution in agriculture--most of the world still use farming methods that date from ancient times. Application of modern farming methods and food preservation could exponentially grow our food supply to vastly beyond what is available even now.

3) Contrary to popular opinion, much of the world's oil supply have yet to be properly exploited. Use the latest oil extraction methods to every oilfield on Earth and doubling to tripling the world's oil supply is not out of the question. And new technologies could dramatically cut the cost of offshore oil prodution, which could really send the supply of oil through the roof.

4) The use of nanotechnology could make it possible to drastically cut the price of extracting potable water from seawater.

I remember late in the 19th Century, there was a war in South America over the harvesting of bird guano for nitrate fertilizer; however, by the early 20th Century, the development of the Haber-Bosch process made it possible to produce nitrate fertilizer synthetically, eliminating the need to process bird guano into fertilizer. The same applies for petroleum; we're on the verge of a major revolution where "growing" oil-laden algae on an industrial scale could replace much of the need to pump out more crude oil, since two major motor fuels needed for industry--diesel fuel and kerosene--can be processed from oil-laden algae.

In short, technology could make the very idea of fighting wars over natural resources obsolete.

4th Likely cause for WW3

WAL MART!!
Yes Im serious!
Think of the economics behind this. The other three reasons are and so far have been handled easily through ....diplomacy?

Anyways...the Chinese Yuan(their dollar)is possibly the most under valued currency in the world. Their economy has begun to reach such a breaking point that its going to force the Yuan to its true value which is akin to the dollar a couple years before Clinton left.

This will force an IMMEDIATE increase in the cost of all things Chinese of up to or more than 100% in some cases 1000%!

Then the worlds largest employer(Wal Mart) goes belly up literally overnight. The worlds largest exporter goes belly up overnight.

Remember, the whole reason Chinese made goods are so cheap is because the Gvt. has forcibly kept the value of the Yuan at a tiny percentage of what it really is worth. That and at the same time using manufacturing standards that barely make it out of the slave labor category whilst using standards that are quite largely and at best equal to American quality manufacturing standards ....from say about 1955. Hence the flood of led toys and other horrifying yet dirt cheap methods of manufacture.

Has anybody else seen the video of this Chinese factory that produced cheap chocolates for the states and that throughout nearly the entire manufacturing process all the chocolate was so full of writhing MAGGOTS that it looked as if it was boiling?

Blech....forget Iran the Chinese Mecca of Slave Labor bubble will NOT last...

Chinese mainland demise of civilization and total destruction of Chinese navy to follow....

World depopulates by up to a BILLION in Asia.

In the US unemployment hits 20-25%. Marshal Law more than likely. Crime skyrockets...quadruples..

within five years the US ...until we sell our souls overseas again... maintains and surpasses the titanic level of innovation and ability to produce quality that began in WW2 and ended around 1973 to become the platinum example of industry that will last about 20 to 30 years. Then we sell out overseas again because ppl are just that s**t greedy and this model of perfection becomes the model for the world but wont be seen again for another 500 years cause the last total economic meltdown caused cities to burn from Beijing all the way into europe across the atlantic and into your home severely drying up labor of any kind.

If its made in China....I dont need it...

damn I love being european!!!!

i am glad that the majority of posts revolve around america and asia(an russia of course).

it also fills me with grate sadness to. for you have not known what real suffering and pain is. what is to forsake all gods, valor and honor, to fight through desperation and with it. but those who will die - i tell you now - will be the ones with fortune. that is why y cursed 'the americans' never to die for 1000 years. foe i believe that the war is already started (or at the mater a' fact never ended). after every battle of war the one thing that suffers the most is the human psyche. our soul is ripped apart as we see that afterall all wars are exaggerated beyond reason and at the most all wars are in vein.

we and with us Gaya will take the fall and those who are dead escape. im not telling you that we must all die to find happiness. as judgmentday will come (hope it is) the true question that will be asked is whether you take the suffering that you have caused or be free of it. i know what my answer will be.

there is an old expression for pain:
" I DO NOT WISH THIS EVEN FOR MY WORST ENEMIES "

so extreme the darkness will be. an there will be a few who will keep it so, and they keep it until we are ready to excuse them. who is able to say I LOVE YOU to the one who shot him in the heart. iraq afterall deserves his faith, and so will the US, and me to. all of mankind.

but there is allways something that rises from the ashes. my hope is there.

GOD BLESS AMERICA (even after rapes the whole earth) he'll need it the most

Some really good replies y'all. Here's the bits I have any commentary on:

Originally posted by gwhint
...it would be good to know or maybe bad to know from ATSers from all the different countries, whats the story with your water reserves?

Well, I know Dallas and several surrounding cities have already started experiencing regular water shortages the last few years. Of course, one of the first things to go in this instance is watering the lawn. Not that I do that much lawn-watering (maybe 2-3 times a year). Over time, I'm hoping to replace the vast majority of useless water-hungry green grass with native plants that fare well in drought in front, and a veg-garden in back. So far I've managed to do about 1/4 the front and am starting the veg-garden this planting season, now that I've got about a year's worth of compost for topsoil.

Originally posted by yahn goodey
so what you are saying is you believe a ww3 without the mass use of nukes will precede the ww4? or ww5? of the final battle for world control by mad dictators before Messiah saves the 1/3 to 1/10 that survive ?sorry thats hard for me to comprehend.

Errr... sorry it's hard for you to comprehend; you have my sympathies. It must be hard going through life unable to grasp the idea of World War III without subsequent destruction of the world. Just watching the news each night must give you a coronary.

Thankfully, I can easily conceive of such an idea, and am free from such concern. I think either are entirely possible. WWIII doesn't necessitate the destruction of Earth and the arrival of a messianic figure. Neither does it preclude it from happening. To reference your specific religion, I think the Bible expressly states only one person knows when He'll come back. To demand he come back on your terms (ie WWIII) seems counter to your own religion.

Nevertheless, this thread isn't about End Times. It's about WWIII. Back on topic...

Originally posted by ringels
I feel very safe, cause i know we have aliens at work, who have far - far
advanced technology at hand.

*WHEW* Thank God for those aliens!

We can all relax, I guess. Here I was, all worried about diminishing resources, man's inhumanity towards man, starvation, famine, and lack of water, and trying to actually figure out what to do about it and prevent it. If I'd only known there were aliens protecting us from ourselves the whole time, and neutralizing our nukes, I wouldn't have had to bother writing up this post in the first place. Thank you for putting my mind at rest.

Originally posted by SactoGuy001
Every time we've had mass starvation during the 20th Century it's the result of war or deliberate political acts.

I would add to that: poor resource management (land, infrastructure, water, labor, etc), and theft (bandits, embezzling, fencing, etc). However, your point is well-received. Since the Green Revolution, mass starvation has been, and is currently, preventable (with a few natural-disaster exceptions). And I fully agree, plus it is still preventable in the very near-future.

However, the point of my earlier posts is that population growth is increasing while the amount of arable land is decreasing. This will, in the near future (15-45 years) create a situation where mass starvation is not preventable.

Originally posted by SactoGuy001
Application of modern farming methods and food preservation could exponentially grow our food supply to vastly beyond what is available even now.

Yes and no. I really would recommend reading this article if you haven't already. I think it'd explain a lot of where I'm coming from. The problem is that, while "harvesting" technology is getting better and better, the raw materials that cannot be increased through technology are getting more and more scarce, against higher and higher demand.

For instance, currently, and for the foreseeable future, technology cannot:

increase the amount of arable land.

increase the rate at which animals breed.

increase the flow of a river.

increase the speed at which fruit and veg will grow.

Or rather, in some instances, where these things are possible, they come at the expense of another limited resource. For instance, you could use Miracle Grow on your veg to get one season of super-rapid growth, but you do so at the expense of additional oil, water, the plant itself, and the land.

Now, with genetic engineering the animal breeding and veg growing might be solved, and that's probably a lot closer to the horizon than terraforming, which is what would be necessary to create more arable land out of, for instance, desert. However, a technology to make a river produce more water seems far, far down the road, and while desalination might one day be par for the course, it is currently horrifically expensive, both in money cost, and resource cost (the equipment constantly breaking due to all that pesky salt).

So, in essence, I really am in full agreement with you. Technology can solve a lot of the problems we face in the future. The problem is whether or not that technology will be available in time to avoid World War III, and will it be accepted by the public?

I mean, surely you've seen the reaction people have to genetically altered meat and veg? Most people eat it regularly, constantly, never realizing it. But God forbid, they find out about it, and suddenly there is a mass outcry against the corporation doing the genetic alterations.

But with good reason, this technology always carries a risk:

Nanotech? Gray Goo.
Genetic manipulation? Monsters and Zombies.
Advanced Robotics? Robot Revolution.

etc... etc... People naturally fear technology getting out of their control. However, even if they can get past their fear, the habits of many of us (especially us Americans) are so incredibly wasteful that we must also learn that conservation isn't just for times of need, it's got to be a way of life.

So, all these problems coupled together leave us a set of conditions that must be met if famine is to be averted by 2050.

Technology towards this aim must be advanced dramatically.

Attitudes towards food/water/transport technology must change.

People must conserve more.

Infrastructure must make more efficient use of limited resources.

Depletion of existing arable land needs to be halted, and reversed.

Originally posted by Strapping Young Lad
4th Likely cause for WW3

WAL MART!!
Yes Im serious!
Think of the economics behind this. The other three reasons are and so far have been handled easily through ....diplomacy?

I would disagree with the "handled easily" part.. rather, "narrowly averted through carrot and stick" is the phrase I'd choose.

On your Wal-Mart scenario, while I am in full agreement that WM and the PRC are both unprecedentedly large economic forces at the moment, the relation you have drawn between the two via the Yuan is economically inaccurate.

When a nation's dollar falls, their exports are cheaper relative to the buying country. So if the Yuan fell in value, we would actually see Chinese goods at even cheaper prices than they are now. You can presently see this in the American economy. Our dollar is presently at a record low, and as such, our exports are actually making more money for us than hey have in a really long time.

As for China specifically, I think the problem isn't that their dollar has been artificially inflated in value, I think it's that it is currently undervalued, which is what has been keeping their exports so cheap. I could be mistaken, as I haven't followed the Yuan scenario in months, but I believe that was the case last year.

Now, if I'm correct, and the Yuan is grossly undervalued, and they suddenly decide to raise the value of their dollar overnight to it's actual value, then the price of exports would skyrocket, and Wal-Mart (and related businesses) would temporarily cause a HUGE problem for Wal-Mart.

However, I think you underestimate their agility. Wal-Mart has made it's fortune on an ever-evolving, constantly changing buying strategy with a centralized infrastructure. The demand for their products are not just regionally-based, but store-by-store based, and then contracts for items constantly drawn up and re-drawn for lower bidders. If Chinese imports suddenly became too expensive, they'd probably have a LOT of contracts to re-draw, but rest assured that within a month, they would have re-drawn all contracts to start buying and shipping from India, Mexico, Africa, or whoever was the cheapest bidder. Very little about their infrastructure would change because the warehouses receiving shipments would not need to do anything except adopt new receiving manifests and possibly have to re-inventory their stock. Wal-Mart has more than enough money to carry it through the losses incurred by an awkward month of contract transitions.

Originally posted by encoder
damn I love being european!!!!

Oh, make no mistake, Europe is far from safe. European history is rife with internal warfare. What keeps France, Spain, and England, from going at each other's throats (as was even as recent as a mere couple of hundred years), is nothing less than an abundance of food and civility. When the former is gone, how long do you think the latter will remain? Humanity is two meals away from barbarism, my friend, and even a collective as forward-thinking and advanced as the EU is no match for an empty stomach.

If anything, I'd say the danger is greater because of the rather large number of countries packed into such a relatively small area. Assuming every nation on Earth decided "screw everyone else, it's us or them", America only has to locally contend with Canada and Mexico. Our much more powerful rivals are, fortunately, an entire ocean away, which isn't proof against all forces, but certainly acts as a nice deterrent.

The only reason most of the posts in here seem specifically in regards to America is because most of them are in regards to food supply, of which we supply the food for a over half the world's total food exports. That's why it's been chosen as the "benchmark nation" in so many posts. If France provided most of the world's food, she'd have been the national benchmark.

(edit: spelling)

[edit on 1/11/2008 by thelibra]

reply to post by thelibra


i sad "I love being european" because o wont die in the first sections of THE WAR, and note that Romania will get a pretty huge part of america .

ah.. sorry about that. you should not know that.
(divide and conquer my friend, divide and conquer)

just ignore the above. but note this:

the coming years america will run out of oil, food and especially common sense. you underestimated the power of the euro. now it its hitting back. the euro is the currency of the world already. even i was left open when i learned that all the currencies in europe are controlled by the ECB. and they say:

"The ECB is the central bank for Europe's single currency, the euro. The ECB’s main task is to maintain the euro's purchasing power and thus price stability in the euro area. The euro area comprises the 15 European Union countries that have introduced the euro since 1999."

in fact they control anything lately. you must be stupid not to believe that these people have no saying in america. so it will fall,... you can accept the european administration easily when you dont trust your government. the 9/11 is just a small part of what is coming. and sooner or later US citizens will knock at the doors of euro. and the NWO in its real sense will be complete. note that there is very little possibility for a physical nuclear warr to happen because these people own the nukes.

if you see a nuke take a closer look and you'll find a "barcode" on it. there is nothing going on in this world for they to not know about it. an this is the case on buying and selling of any single resistor or capacitor for that nukes controller, or any other part.

put on your seatbelt Dorothy and say goodbye to Kansas. suveranity dose not exist anymore.

the coming years america will run out of oil, food and especially common sense.
i dont believe that you have not noticed that all this is happening at the exact same time. it is ENGINEERED

as ENGINEERED the mind of all of us.

reply to post by thelibra


Hey Libra, you really have done your homework, but I think you left out one key ingredient for the future of America and the rest of the world:

POPULATION CONTROL

What a great post this has been thanks for raising the issue and definitely a few more eyes have been opened.
cheers, gwhint

Originally posted by encoder
i sad "I love being european" because o wont die in the first sections of THE WAR, and note that Romania will get a pretty huge part of america

.

Well, I hope they treat her better than we did. :LOL:

Originally posted by encoder
the coming years america will run out of oil, food and especially common sense.

Current math says you are quite correct, unless we change our ways, and invest heavily, simultaneously in alternative energy and agricultural/water technologies. Unfortunately, these aren't profitable yet. And in our system, profit drives research. When we're starving, thirsty, and out of oil, they'll be profitable, and we'll start. Unfortunately, it'll be too late to save millions of people by that time.

Originally posted by encoder
in fact they control anything lately. you must be stupid not to believe that these people have no saying in america. so it will fall,

Now now, you've got three very serious assumptions here.

There are things the EU still doesn't control. They are powerful, but they are not omnipotent. Yet. Of course they have sway with America. It doesn't mean they control America, it just means they're now powerful enough to have a strong influence in America.

I don't think America is likely to fall just because the EU is powerful. The EU is really a lot like America. America isn't one solid Hive Mind of a country that spans an entire continent. It's 50 different countries that have basically decided to band together under a common flag, and trade a portion of their sovereignty to a centralized representative government in exchange for mutual security, stability, and commerce.

And keep in mind, the EU is still of the mindset of 15 different countries that just happen to be working together at this moment in time, still very new, and still figuring out just how much sovereignty will be exchanged for how much security, stability, and commerce. And in 100% honesty, I wish you all very, very much luck. I think it's a very good idea, personally, and will help ensure the long-term survival of Europe from the next Hitler, and helps protect individual European countries against exploitation from larger countries (like us).

It took us over 200 years to get the point we're at. You don't have an easy road ahead of you. Especially this late in the game, with the problems we soon face, but I do honestly wish the EU good luck.

Originally posted by encoder
note that there is very little possibility for a physical nuclear warr to happen because these people own the nukes.

Not all of them. And not all the ones that will ever be made. It's so easy to make dirty bombs now it's terrifying to think about. So most people never think about it.

Originally posted by encoder
put on your seatbelt Dorothy and say goodbye to Kansas. suveranity dose not exist anymore.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing if you want to be a superpower. Think of America as an experiment in exchanging sovereignty for security, stability, and commerce. Yeah, we got a lot of problems, but so does every country on Earth, and for the most part, we've done really well for ourselves. Now sure, the rest of the world has been kinda screwed up here and there as a result (coughcoughIraqcough) but for us it's worked out pretty good.

Now I'm not justifying atrocities in the name of prosperity, but rather, governments are, and always have been, an ever-evolving learning process in what works, and what doesn't, when you have a limited number of resources to be distributed between a potentially unlimited number of people, and you are staring down the barrel of a lot of other countries just waiting for the chance to take what resources you have. Right now, what's "worked" for one's own countrymen, is a union of individual "countries" or "States" into a larger collective. This is done at the expense of those who are not a part of the collective. That sucks, that's the part that "doesn't work"... and someday, maybe we'll figure out a way for everyone to win.

Until that day, though, be honest, if it was a choice between one of two families starving to death: your spouse, children, and parents, or some group of people you've never met and never will meet, on some opposite side of the world, what would you honestly choose?

Originally posted by encoder
i dont believe that you have not noticed that all this is happening at the exact same time. it is ENGINEERED

It could very well be. It could very well be. Someone always profits in a war, be it obvious or subtle.

Errr... sorry it's hard for you to comprehend; you have my sympathies. It must be hard going through life unable to grasp the idea of World War III without subsequent destruction of the world. Just watching the news each night must give you a coronary.

Thankfully, I can easily conceive of such an idea, and am free from such concern. I think either are entirely possible. WWIII doesn't necessitate the destruction of Earth and the arrival of a messianic figure. Neither does it preclude it from happening. To reference your specific religion, I think the Bible expressly states only one person knows when He'll come back. To demand he come back on your terms (ie WWIII) seems counter to your own religion.

Nevertheless, this thread isn't about End Times. It's about WWIII. Back on topic...


reply:silly me? i do look at the news daily and check other websites besides mainly ats and what i see tends to cause my religious mind to perceive that we are on the verge of ww3 and a huge loss of life---into the billions--but thats just me.

i'm not a member of any human religious organization and can only go by what i read and the signs of the times.
i do hope for Messiah to return soon to save those that sigh and cry over the abominations that are perpetrated down here.
if G-D ever decided to personally tell me what They think i would be glad to share with you.right now i can only say what i think i might see?

Are their any experts on economics in the house?

If there are please help.

Just trying to make myself a bit clearer here. As I see it albeit through the distorted prism of Main Stream Media the chinese economic situation IS the current largest threat to world peace. Why?

The communist PRC gvt. cannot keep the Yuan at up to 1/1000ths its value for much longer. Since they have been able to forcibly keep it so artificially low is why every nation on earth especially the west has crammed investments in China to over 1 TRILLION dollars making China the worlds largest holder of vast foreign monetary reserves and not just in dollars either-www.wallstreetjournal.com

The Chinese have done TOO GOOD of a job in luring investments and its about to end. www.Bloomberg.com

Maintaning the export power they currently have at the current rate is impossible. It actually cost China many times more to produce most of what it exports and eventually foreign investors will begin to draw on their investments. Hope they do it sooner than later cause once the bubble has burst and Chinese inflation hits 1000% overnight most will lose money on their investments.

There has always been a thought in the back of my mind that this was all planned under Nixon. Remember it was Nixon that opened the pandoras box of slave labor that is Chinese manufacturing.
The Vietnam war was coming to its disgraceful end. The almighty US had never been so disgraced.

In closed door sessions deep into the night the economic murder of China was born. The US had been facing what were Chinese proxy armies in the end. A military throw down with China? Forget it. With the cold war at a fever pitch something else had to be done.

End game. Chinese civilization nearly ends. Along with most throughout Eurasia. The US takes a titanic hit in the wallet. For a little while. Then the US cranks up its TRUE manufacturing power ala WW2 style times a thousand. Leaving the US truly as the "shining city on a hill" for a couple decades.

Even as an American I know that elitist greed trounces all forms of patriotism. Yes in your country too.

Once again we sell ourselves out to cheap foreign labor and the whole process begins again. Which in the end by the way would leave the US truly as the masters of the planet. We pump em up then let em pop. Making trillions on the returns.

As for Wal Mart. Please correct me if Im wrong but as far as I know even all the other cheap labor markets get their materials from China so when China bursts the only way it could survive is to use more modern and expensive markets as sources.

5th Likely cause for WW3

The Euro.

Yes the Euro is just golden right now...but how long can that really last? Do you really want to put your investments into a market that has France AND Germany constantly vying for control of it?

Although it appears to be a bit further off...for now...the Euro is far more likely to tank overnight than anybody seems to think.

First off Germany wants to be the financial master of Europe. As evidenced by two world wars that they started. Remember those? Albeit in textbooks and in movies for most of us now but Germany started the first two world wars and is once again trying to become the master of another european economy.

Second, France which seems to have become that one boxer that always loses yet fights again only to be left flat again, ALSO wants to be the Euros policy master. France has been far more vocal ie "bitching" about it as Germany quietly and slowly seems to be casting yet another long dark shadow of actual control of flow of goods and monetary influence over the EU. I see that long dark shadow stretching out to France.

Thirdly, besides Germany and France constantly fighting for control of the EU theres FAR to much that can go wrong in an instant. Especially with the smaller EU states. At one time or another most of the european states have fought one another going back to midevil times.

Besides war. Just how strong of a labor force do they all really have? Taking in former Eastern Bloc states is extrememly risky. Even almost twenty years after the Soviets crumbled these states have been almost permanently handicapped by their former rulers.

Yes the Euro is quite the example right now. But its still a patchwork at best politically. Far to much can go wrong....disastously wrong...holocost anyone?... overnight.

Invest in precious metals. All those ppl who say its okay but you should always buy some stock just want you to buy their stocks.

Originally posted by Strapping Young Lad
5th Likely cause for WW3
Thirdly, besides Germany and France constantly fighting for control of the EU theres FAR to much that can go wrong in an instant. Especially with the smaller EU states. At one time or another most of the european states have fought one another going back to midevil times.

this reminds me of the United States Of America, the beginning. there is to much evidence to ignore that the US is an example to the EU. hopefully we dont fail where the US have.
if the Illuminati controls things in this world, and if they do a bad job about it they will fall deeply into the sh.t. (just to bring that up) i think they subestimated the power of the internet and they'll do so for a long time (possibly they cant use the PC. ). they just to damn illuminated to see the power of the world unite under one banner. it is inevitable, maybe we'll be irradiated to death but we'll stand under one flag at the end, and that would worth it. i'll rest peacefully in this case.

(most of us know that death is not the end, yet everybody speaks as it is, ENGINEERED again)

Libra you really started the jiuces flowing in some of us and the question arrises that just maybe WWIII is the only possible way out, I hate to think it because of all of the destruction and life ending but how can we keep going further at this rate of change in this coming age.

I think about all the Defense deals with all the big boys on the block and it just goes to show they are part of of this NWO scheme of things and they are in a bind as well.

US Defense contractors are in bed with EU Defense corp's as well as with China & Japan and others, planning for the future and the money control.

So it is not in their best interest to have a global war, we all would be using the same weapons on each other, remember the shock & awl episodes in the Gulf, the next if its a WWIII, your eyes will not believe what they see, so do you really want to see a future shock & awl.

But if the biggest expenditure of all countries is defense and for the production of defense then who is going to buy all these weapons, we will be competing with now the EU and as well, China, Russia, Japan, India, SA etc, the list is really long, partof the NWO way of thinking.

I dont think all the countries in the ME will be the only buyers, or will they, so the ME needs to stay in the business of war, so we will have buyers, right, oops, I think the USA pissed them off, no sales, right, nah, we have our foreign EU and other countries Defense contractors we are in bed with, to be able to sell them, right, its just a label change, a NWO made in ???
gwhint

ww1 and ww2 started with a confrontation between germany and its allies verses us and our allies.ww3 will be a continuation of unfinished buisness in the minds of some germans ?

in my view there is no reason to not think that a future confrontation will once again occure between these parties but at the same time it will involve and concern the status of jerusalem and the jews(which is prophesied) and appeasement of the muslims to "guarantee" oil supplies.


i suspect the appeasement of the muslims will only last long enough to use european (crusader) armies to secure the oil by military force.

The first half of this new century may very well be the end...

After doing a bit more research of the other points on this thread all I can say is....

Doomed...we are ALL doomed.
Im not talking about death. A natural death is easy. Most of the time you just dont wake up.

Death itself is nothing compared to HOW you die...
Its an asian proverb Japanese I think(correctmeifImincorrect)
"The fear of death is worse than death itself."

If any hot spots around the world unfold into the biblical scale apocalyptic scenarios metioned thus far then the ones who pass on naturally are very very lucky....but for the majority involved will die the most slow and agonizing processes of death you can imagine.

Mass starvation leading to mass cannibalism...(sp)
The planet is so overpopulated that even mass usage of WMD will leave "survivors" that suffer from a few minuites to even a few years..

I imagine Auschwitz, millions of living dead, their eyes sunken far back into the skull, suffering constant forced mass infusions of every disease brought on by muntions the contagious become the damned.This time though with no barbed wire fences and guards just the given sea that the "lucky" few living dead make it to under the command of the bodies survival instincts to somehow obtain water....

I envision staggering animated corpses, all muscles atrophied to the point of non existence leaving the flesh clinging so tight bones easily tear through....the human spirit to survive still so strong that the bodies of many will just refuse to die...leaving many as semi dead piles of flesh...completely immobile with heartbeats that just wont stop just managing barely to pump once again poisoned blood to the atrophied brain that cruelly maintains some glimmer of awareness....as creatures a bit more fortunate devour your carcass and fight over remains...

The determined that make it to the sea kneel down to take a drink of the blackened liquid salt, boiling with disease...feebly attempting to cup their hands only to have the blackened brine strain through their leprous grip...

On their knees, ...long since had the strength to raise their heads
fall forward into the rising tide...
drift deep dark currents...rest in hell among the reefs of the dead...



Happy New Years everyone.....

reply to post by yahn goodey


hope it will be just as bad and not worse. i fear for the animals to,.. you know.

but life has always found a way...

Originally posted by encoder
reply to post by yahn goodey

 

hope it will be just as bad and not worse. i fear for the animals to,.. you know.

but life has always found a way...

re:myself i'd sooner not be around to witness the suffering of either people or animals-----whats coming is not being forced on us by G-D its just the consequence of us rejecting Them and Their laws which if we all kept would ensure peace.

one aircraft for example a b52 can carry more nuclear explosive firepower than all the conventional explosives detonated in both previous world wars.

bible prophecy indicates that by the time Messiah returns to save us from our total self extermination that anywhere from 1/3 to 1/10 will be left alive.so obviously this last war is going to be far worse than anything humans have perpetrated up to now.

I'm convinced that WW3 will be between US and Russia,China
Armageddon will take place by Dec/2010, we're already screwed before the arrival of planet X

Originally posted by dk3000
Lets us not forget that Christianity is dying and in order to fulfill the prophecies of the Bible they must have their "Battle of Armageddon" otherwise it will all be bullschitt- and they cannot have that!

ha ha
sounds like two legged hoarsh!t to me
Christianity is forever because of Christ.
I am a FUNdamentalist Christian and we don't need to get an Armageddon to happen to prove Christianity - the obsessive opposition from this fallen world is proof enough that all of mankind is in opposition to God which WILL culminate in Armageddon as the Bible warns.
The North pole thing is very real - Putin will take if he can before the US.
...and good ol Uncle Sam is backing him up by not recognizing Canada's claim there as her arctic shelf or her sovereign waters from global warming that the world wants as as a corridor
So Canada is waving its puny little fist at a couple of world class bullys- we should get a couple of nuke boats there and play chicken I think
y

Hey Libra,
We miss your postings, so come on back, ok, my last posting on the 12th I asked you who we would be able to sell our weapons to and just look at what Bu** sold to the saudi's so this should benefit our economy, our reputation isnt soiled afterall, right and what other countries supporting our manufacturing industry will benefit, who?.

www.yahoo.com...

Which brings up another question:
Who is Saudi's enemy and why do they want 20 bil in weapons, because I thought this was the reason we were stationed there to do their fighting for them, maybe not??
But will they use the weapons or will they resale them to whomever??
Who is Saudi's enemy, lets see let me guess ???????
Care to comment

www.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by gwhint
Hey Libra,
We miss your postings, so come on back

Sorry, man, the thread had gone to a weird place that I didn't have any input for. I can't argue against a religious belief, because I'm crippled by the need to use logic, as opposed to faith. And SYL kinda went off the deep end with his visions. It became one of those "I think I'll see what's going on in one of the other party rooms" sorta things.

In regards to your posts though:

Originally posted by gwhint
US Defense contractors are in bed with EU Defense corp's as well as with China & Japan and others, planning for the future and the money control.

So it is not in their best interest to have a global war, we all would be using the same weapons on each other, remember the shock & awl episodes in the Gulf, the next if its a WWIII, your eyes will not believe what they see, so do you really want to see a future shock & awl.

Oh, absolutely it's in their interests for there to be a World War. Consider this: you're a defense contractor, take your pick among any of them: Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Bell Textron, Northrop Grumman, etc... You've got customers in every country that will do business with you. World War breaks out. What is the first thing a country is going to shift its budget towards? The machineries of war. Guns. Jets. Tanks. Oil. Bombs. Ammo.

In a Cold War, "keeping up with the Joneses" is essential to averting a Hot War. In a Hot War, you can't buy these things fast enough. It behooves the Defense Industry to keep us on a constant state of alert at as often as possible, if they want to continue selling their fancy new pea-shooters.

Originally posted by gwhint
...we will be competing with now the EU and as well, China, Russia, Japan, India, SA etc, the list is really long, partof the NWO way of thinking.

I wouldn't confuse the free market economy with NWO thinking. Free and open competition among goods and services is as essential to the evolution of those G&S, as strife is to the ability of life to adapt and evolve to new situations. Weaker companies die off in the face of those that can offer better goods and/or lower prices. It's an economic ecosystem if you will.

In my mind, the NWO, conversely, represents the artificial suppression of ideas, innovation, the free market, and creativity. The NWO would be much more like the old Bell Phone monopoly than a competing number of industrial players across national boundaries. That's not to say a clever umbrella corp couldn't have its own companies compete with one another to give the illusion of public choice, but even then, in the face of competing with one another, there is a constant evolution of product, ideas, and creativity. Plus this has historically been shown to be a terrible business decision, such as was the case with Daimler-Chrysler.

Originally posted by gwhint
my last posting on the 12th I asked you who we would be able to sell our weapons to and just look at what Bu** sold to the saudi's so this should benefit our economy, our reputation isnt soiled afterall, right and what other countries supporting our manufacturing industry will benefit, who?.

Well, I don't really understand the question... Are you asking who's going to buy our stuff? If so, I'd say currently, lots of people. When the dollar is low, our exports are hot, because the buying countries can purchase more for their money. The lower our dollar, the higher in demand our exports will become. In a way, this is a good thing, because if we are to survive the next century and remain a super-power, we're going to need to start producing things again.

America's domestic economy has for too long been based upon Services and Luxury Goods (ie. cars, houses, consumer electronics, etc), and food exports. The foundations of industry, such as steel, oil, microchip production, and so forth, have all been outsourced overseas or down south to Mexico. Simultaneously, we've let our goods become worse and worse in quality while charging more for them, look at the auto industry. This leaves food (which we cannot continue to export for long), housing (which has tanked now), and mostly disposable luxuries which already have a hard time competing with foreign imports.

Oil shortages, piracy, terrorism, warfare, and a weak dollar are going to make foreign imports too hefty for us to continue sustaining the demand at a reasonable price. As such, we either have to do without, or re-learn how to make things domestically. That means more factories, more factory jobs, and a new competition amongst the domestic production to be either the best, or the cheapest. The long-term advantage to this is, of course, more jobs domestically, and the infrastructure for strong production being in place, possibly before the outbreak of a world war.

And in wartime, production is everything. The reason we beat the Nazis was not because we had superior technology, it wasn't because we had terrain advantage, better marksmen, stronger soldiers, or anything of the sort. The Nazis actually had a pretty level playing field as far as those things went. What allowed us to beat them was the fact that we could move more beans, faster, and farther, than they could. War, real war, is almost always a battle of attrition. It's how long your side can hold out in terms of resources and the transport of those resources, versus the enemy.

Originally posted by gwhint
Which brings up another question:
Who is Saudi's enemy and why do they want 20 bil in weapons, because I thought this was the reason we were stationed there to do their fighting for them, maybe not??
But will they use the weapons or will they resale them to whomever??
Who is Saudi's enemy, lets see let me guess ???????
Care to comment

A bit of both, I should think. What you need to consider is that, in every life form that has a leader, not just humans, what people judge a leader by is what they can bring to the table.

America is a pretty stable place, all things considered. Warlords do not rampage across the countryside and take control of cities, industries, etc. Businesses are held in a check a lot more than one would think, preventing them from too far over-exploiting resources. Our police force is, for the most part, reliable and fair. Our education system is widespread, available to almost everyone, and our infrastructure is solid to the point of an electrical or water outage actually being considered a crisis. What do we have left to judge our leaders on? If a president can just maintain parity for eight years, we haven't done too bad, and have fared better than most people on Earth.

Now consider any one country in the Middle East. Chances are, electricity, if available at all, might only be on for 15 minutes to 2 hours total, per day. Running water is something only tourist hotels get, you get your water from a well down the street, or a river, assuming that those areas aren't currently controlled by a local mafia or warlord. Your local warlord IS your police force, and you dare not cross them or even be a part of a group that thinks slightly differently than them. Education is something for the elite, and the only education you can count on being free is training in a para military camp for the local warlord. Your country's leader is inconsequential to your daily struggle just to survive. At any minute, you know a bomb could go off and your life would end. What would you demand from your leader? In such desperate straits, simply not being shot at would be a nice start. Protecting you from warlords, foreign invaders, rebel uprisings, nomadic raiders, and religious extremists, any one of which might try to kill you at any moment, for any reason, or you could end up being part of their collateral damage against a larger target. If your leader would only just have enough military power to stop these guys shooting at you for long enough for you to eat, drink, and use the bathroom, you'd be happy.

That's why they need the guns. That's the difference in a situation like that. As a leader in the M.E., buying $20 Bil worth of weapons is as much a show of power to the aforementioned groups as it is a practical matter on how to deal with said groups. And, in a pinch, you can always pawn the weapons for some quick cash. And since the American dollar is really low at the moment, our weapons are some of the cheapest around, for the quality they give.

Hope that answers at least some of your questions... if not, reword the question and I'll do my best to answer them.

[edit on 1/15/2008 by thelibra]