Identifying the Modern Descendants of Ancient Biblical Peoples..

I got the bright idea to try to identify the modern descendants of the ancient peoples spoken of in the Bible, Old Testament, and Apocrypha. I have some time so I will try to do this, while also learning something as well at the same time. I will referrence the sources at the bottom of the essay.

I will start with Adam's sons, then Noah's sons, then Noah's grandsons, then Abraham's sons, and then go into some other local peoples of the era.

All Modern Human beings currently living are said to be descendants of Cain, this is because Abel was slain, and Seth is extremely untouched on in the scriptures, his descendants can only be guessed and speculated on with no real information to go with. So I will exclude Seth. In the Ethiopic Book of Enoch [1], it states that Enoch from whom Noah descended from was a Cainite. Most people were Cainites at the time. When Noah and his sons survived the deluge, they became, according to the Bible, the progenitors of the human race. So thus, all currently living people are descended from Cain, according to the Bible.

Noah had three sons, the eldest Japheth, the middle son Shem, and the youngest son Ham. After they landed near the Mts. of Arafat, it is said that after a time, as the families grew (there was sex within family that would now be considered a no-no), Japheth was said to have gone north into "Eurasia" with his people through the Caucasus Mts, while Shem's people stayed in the Levant/Middle East, and Ham's people moved into Egypt, Libya, Somalia, Sudan.

So then, Japheth's sons it is written were named: Gomer, Magog, Tiras, Javan, Meshech, Tubal, and Madai [2]. Below we have an exerpt from the same Wikipedia article of Josephus describing where these peoples settled:

According to Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews I.6):

"Japhet, the son of Noah, had seven sons: they inhabited so, that, beginning at the mountains Taurus and Amanus, they proceeded along Asia, as far as the river Tanais (Don), and along Europe to Cadiz; and settling themselves on the lands which they light upon, which none had inhabited before, they called the nations by their own names."
Josephus subsequently detailed the nations supposed to have descended from the seven sons of Japheth. Among the nations various later writers have attempted to assign to them are as follows:

Gomer: Armenians, Cimmerians, Scythians, Welsh, Picts, Irish, Germans.
Magog: Scythians, Slavs, Mongols, Hungarians, and Irish
Madai: Mitanni, Mannai, Medes-Kurds, Persians, Indo-Aryans, According to the Book of Jubilees (10:35-36), Madai had married a daughter of Shem, and preferred to live among Shem's descendants, rather than dwell in Japheth's allotted inheritance beyond the Black Sea; so he begged his brothers-in-law, Elam, Asshur and Arphaxad, until he finally received from them the land that was named after him, Media.
Javan: Greeks (Ionians)
Tubal: Tabali, Georgians, Italics, Illyrians, Iberians, Basques
Tiras: Thracians, Goths, Jutes, Teutons
Meshech: Phrygians, Caucasus Iberians

(from www.wikipedia.com...)

I highlighted the part about Media because Media is modern day Iran, and this shows that the Indo-Iranian peoples were indeed racially connected to the further northern, Russian area Eurasian people known as Sarmatians and Scythians in the B.C. during Greek times. But as you can see, most of the nations of Europe are listed there.

Now, Shem fathered a number of sons as well. According to the Book of Jasher [3] , the sons of Shem were:

Elam "eternity" (sons were Shushan, Machul and Harmon[1]) - (Elamites), Iran
Asshur "a step" or "strong" (sons were Mirus and Mokil[2]) - (Assyrians, Northern Mesopotamia);
Arphaxad "I shall fail" (sons were Shelach, Anar and Ashcol[3]) - (Chaldeans, Southern Mesopotamia, Hebrews, Israelites, Arabians, Bedouins, Moabites, Jordanians, Palestinians, Sabaeans, and related groups);
Lud "strife" (sons were Pethor and Bizayon[4]) - (Ludim, Lubim, Ludians, Ludu, Lydians, Chubs, Berbers, and other related groups in Asia Minor and North Africa);
Aram "exalted" (sons were Uz, Chul, Gather and Mash[5]) - (Aramaeans, other related groups), and remnant groups throughout Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa.

(from en.wikipedia.org...)

As we can see, the Middle Eastern peoples, including the ancient Israelites, the locals in the Levant, and the people of Babylon were Shem's descendants. So Most modern day Arab nations are Shem descendants, and Israel claims Shem descent as well. Ths is where the word "Semitic" comes from.

Onto Ham's people and sons, who moved into North Africa/Egypt [4]. Ham fathered various sons who also represent some of the Arab countries, but also many of the Berber/Arab mixed African Islamic countries. Here are his sons, and the modern day nation equivalents are all there for you:

Ham lineage
Main article: Hamitic

Cush, son of Ham. The Empire of Kush to the south of Egypt is known from at least 1970 BC, but this name has also been associated by some with the Kassites who inhabited the Zagros area of Mesopotamia, the Sumerian city of Kish, as well as the Hindu Kush.

Mizraim, son of Ham. Mizraim is a name for Upper and Lower Egypt and literally translates as Ta-Wy in Ancient Egyptian ("The Two Lands"). The aim in Mizraim represent duality. Egyptians of today refer to their country as Miṣr.
Phut, son of Ham. Ancient authorities are fairly universal in identifying Phut with the Libyans (Lebu and Pitu), the earliest neighbors of Egypt to the west. (Although more recent theories have tried to connect Phut with Phoenicia, or the currently unidentified Land of Punt.)
Canaan, son of Ham. This is known to be the name of a nation and people who settled the Eastern shore of the Mediterranean in what is now called Israel and Lebanon.

(from en.wikipedia.org...)

Now, onto Abraham, a descendant of Shem. His sons were Isaac and Ishmael, one by his wife Isaac, and one by his Egyptian maid Hagar. According to Scripture, Sarah gets mad and jealous of Hagar and sends her off with Ishmael to the East. She is about to give up and puts little Ishmael down under a bush to die, then a spring sprung up and God spoke to Hagar. The well is called the zam-zam well, it is in Arabia to this day.

Isaac goes on to Father the Israeli/Jewish peoples. And the 12 Tribes of Israel, which Im not going to list.

Ishmael goes on to Father the Arab peoples. All Arabs consider themselves descendants of Ishmael.

All the tribes of Israel except for Judah, Levite, and Benjamin were taken into Assyrian captivity, then dispersed among the peoples never to be seen again. The three exempted tribes, who had done good in the eyes of the Lord, were captured by Nebuchadnezzar and taken to Babylon. Eventually they were released and went back to Jerusalem.

This means that there are some locals in Israel of these tribes, probably very few, but they must still be there. I know most are Askenazi East Europe heritage. But those lands were where most of the remnants of the Northern Tribes of Israel which were swept into exile eventually found themselves after centuries etc. So this is how the religion came to that part of Europe at that time, and the East Europeans and the Jewish people interbred and intermingled their cultures into what you currently have as the Ashkenazi. So the modern day of Israel is predominantly represented by the remnant of the Northern Kingdom that fell into idolatry. Hmm.

I'm still puzzled as to who the modern day Edomites are, nation or people wise. I'm thinking Edomites are in Syria? Ammonites are in Jordan (wonder where the capital name Amman came from?). The Palestinians, modern day remnant of a mix between the Caananites and the Philistines?

As far as the sons of Japheth, they fathered the East European tribes that eventually migrated west ward, as well as the tribes that settled in the Caucasus Mts, and in Turkey, the Greeks, but also some Eastward such as.. the Sarmatians possibly the Uzbekis, Tajiks, etc. Strangely, all the lands called "Magog" are the lands in which Japheths sons settled as I just described. Strangely, according to the latest genetic findings, many scientists are saying it looks like Europeans and the Modern day East/South/Central Asian peoples both came from a single lineage 30,000-50,000 years ago somewhere near the Hindu Kush Mts, Tibet, Khazakstan .. that Central / Western Asian area. This could answer the question of why East Asians arent represented by the three sons of Noah, and by extension, the Native and South American peoples, whom themselves are descendants of East Asians from long ago. Therefore, the sons of Japheth could encompass everyone from the West Coast of Europe to the Eastern Coast of Asia, on into North America, and down into South America as well, all Japhethites (before the modern era and even before the colonial era). And theres even more, this would mean that Southeast Asians would be a mixture of Japhetic and Shemitic OR Hamitic .. depending exactly where we are talking.

References:
[1]: www.pseudepigrapha.com...
[2]: en.wikipedia.org...
[3]: en.wikipedia.org...
[4]: en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 1/2/2008 by runetang]

Sorry... wasn't able to read your entire post... yet. I have a meeting to run into. However, quick comment (Unless you've made it already). Part of the Tribe of Israel is often confused with the Tribe of Judah (Jews). The Tribe of Judah being descended from King David is NOT the tribe spoken of in the bible when referring to the Israelites. The Tribe of Israel was scattered across the globe as punishment for idolotry. The majority of the Tribe of Israel was settled into the UK and became known as the British - being literally translated from those of the Br'ith - or being Br'ithish - becoming known then as the British. It is then within this Tribe that we see the development of the Western World - still entrapped by their idolotry and materialism.

I will rejoin this thread later. Nice topic!!!

Originally posted by kozmo
The Tribe of Israel was scattered across the globe as punishment for idolotry. The majority of the Tribe of Israel was settled into the UK and became known as the British - being literally translated from those of the Br'ith - or being Br'ithish - becoming known then as the British.

I will rejoin this thread later. Nice topic!!!

I was with you until you said the ancient israelites are now the modern british. That just doesn't quite add up, I've heard that theory, and studied it, but I don't see the connection. The Tribes of Israel were taken into captivity because of Idolatry, and scattered, as I say in the original post. But they spread all throughout Turkey/Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan, and migrated into Eastern Europe & Russian Eurasia over the Black Sea, influencing the people there into what is now known as Ashkenazi Judaism. Trust me, I have thoroughly read up on this. But be it educated, it's still just another theory..

For example, "Yiddish", the language spoken by most Ashkenazi, is a combination of Hebrew and some Eastern European language, I forgot exactly which. May be polish, may be slavic, I really don't remember. Where did the Hebrew come from? Obviously there were Hebrew people, or descendants of the lost tribes, who settled in Eastern Europe during the Jewish Khazar Empire, and long afterward.

Thanks for your input.

[edit on 1/2/2008 by runetang]

I heard that most of the 12 tribes are now "lost". There's only a couple known ones now, Judah being one of them. I wonder what on earth happened to the rest .

The myth of the lost tribes is nothing more than hearsay.

Below are the names of 16 tribes wich still exist today in Asir, SaudiArabia. Asir is a mountain area and the name is the same as Seir. The difference (Asir/Seir) is because one is hebraic and the other arabic, but it's still the same name. The actual hebraic and arabic words is most revealing and are written between () below;

christian name (hebraic letters) - arabic name (arabic letters)
(some have more than one name and these have to be investigated to find out wich one it is, unless it's all of them)

Manasseh (mnsh) - Mansi (mns), Mansiyah (mnsyh) near Sabya, or Munshah (mnsh).
Ephraim (prym ('pr)) - Firan (pr-'pr) or Wafrayn (wpryn (wpr)) at the Asir coast.
Benjamin (bnymyn or bn ymyn meaning 'son of the south') - we have three towns, Yamna, Yamanah and Yamani, all ymn in Vest Arabia
Joseph (ywsp) - Banu Yusuf (ysp)
Zebulun (zblwn) - Zabbalah (zbl) from the mountains in the southern Asir
Issachar (ysskr) - Shukarah (skr)
Asher ('sr) - Dhawi Shari (sr) or Wishr (wsr) in Jizan
Gad (gd) - Jadi (gd) and Judan (gd)
Naphtali (nptly) - Falatin (pltn)
Dan (dn) - Duwaniyah and Danaywi (both dny) or Dandan (dndn)
Judah (yhwdh) - several arabic tribes still have this name today. Judah was most likely once an alliance between these tribes as the word mean 'hand' (think hand shaking between friends).
Levi (lwy) - Lu'ayy (l'y) or Buq'atal-Lawat (lwh)
Simeon (sm'wn) - Sama'inah or Sama'in (sm'n)
Reuben (r'wbn) - Rawabin (rwbn)

Over the thousands of years several of the tribes have setteled and become towns.

What have everyone confused is that In 721 BC the Assyrian ruler Sargon II invaded and destroyed the Vest Arabic kingdom 'Israel' and moved the main population as prisoners to Persia.
In 586 BC the Babylonian ruler Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the Vest Arabic kingdom 'Juda' and took with him its judic population as prisoners to Babylon.
Thus there was so many Jews in this new area (for the jews when they were released) that they founded cities with names after those in their old Vest Arabic homes. The Jews left back in Arabia started using the expressions 'daughter of Zion' and 'daughter of Jerusalem' (to differensiate them from the the old Zion and Jerusalem) and they were full of hope for this New Jerusalem and Israel and many from the old arabic lands moved to the new. They also made songs of the new lands praise (wich you all have read and even sung from the hymn-book). Today the americans belive the poems is a prediction of the discovery of their country and the making of USA...

There are still about a million jews in Saudi-Arabia and Ethiopia. About the ashkenazi jew, read the threads by Amadeus back in 14/9 2004 wich are revealing about them. Shortly put, the ashkenazi converted to judaism only 1004 years ago and are not blood related to the semittic saudi-arabic jews at all. The ashkenazi are goyim and 100% europeans.

Isaiah 11

11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.12 He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.

According to the verse, we can look for the lost of tribes of Israel on the following areas:

Assyria
Egypt
Cush
Elam
Babylonia
Hamath
Islands of the Sea (South East Asia)

All we need is to research their modern equivalent.

It seems they were scattered mostly in the middle east regions. Nothing was mentioned about Europe though. However, surprisingly, the Islands of the Sea was mentioned, that means the tribes was scattered in the regions of South East Asia where you can find thousands of Islands.

Edit : added info

[edit on 3-1-2008 by amitheone]

one might go to the "Worldwide Church of God" archives,
the late Herbert W. Armstrong produced several booklets
concerning tracing modern peoples to ancient and biblical names/peoples

try a google on either of those inputs,
i can't be sure if the booklets are on-line or you'ld need to register,
i just recall that 15? years ago i ran across that British linkage
to Saxsons (Issac's sons), the Stone-of-Scone under the British Throne
and the ancient inscriptions on that item.

& about the returning Christ would replace an existing Throne when
he returned (presumably the British Monarchy) being the tribe of Ephram
and the 13 colonies being the 13th tribe Manassas, which is part
of the birthright & blessings package.
Armstong makes interesting reading on a great deal of research

Here's some Wikipedia references:

Hamath now called Hama - Hama (Arabic: حماة, meaning fortress) is a city on the banks of the Orontes river in central Syria. It is the provincial capital of the Hama Governorate.

en.wikipedia.org...

Assyria - Of the early history of the kingdom of Assyria, little is positively known. According to some Judaeo-Christian traditions, the city of Ashur (also spelled Assur or Aššur) was founded by Ashur the son of Shem, who was deified by later generations as the city's patron god.

en.wikipedia.org...

Kush Kush was a civilization centered in the region of Nubia, located in what is today northern Sudan. One of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile River Valley, Ku#e states rose to power before a period of Egyptian incursion into the area. People in Kush were called Ku#es.

en.wikipedia.org...

Elam lasting from around 2700 BC to 539 BC, is one of the oldest recorded civilizations. Elam was centered in the far west and southwest of modern-day Iran (the lowlands of Khuzestan and Ilam Province, which takes its name from Elam), as well as parts of southern Iraq. It was preceded by what is known as the Proto-Elamite period, which began around 3200 BC when Susa (later capital of Elam) began to be influenced by the cultures of the Iranian plateau to the east.

en.wikipedia.org...

Babylonia Babylonia was a state in southern Mesopotamia, in modern Iraq, combining the territories of Sumer and Akkad. The earliest mention of the city of Babylon can be found in a tablet from the reign of Sargon of Akkad, dating back to the 23rd century BC.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by St Udio
one might go to the "Worldwide Church of God" archives,
the late Herbert W. Armstrong produced several booklets
concerning tracing modern peoples to ancient and biblical names/peoples

I found a refutation of that:

www.bible.ca...

By the way, Armstrong is a cult leader of the early WCOG. Today, most of his teachings are abandoned and his church split.

www.becominghuman.org...


The assumption that we all descended from Adam per the Bible is bunkum and derives from a society ignorant of the science.
Thus, this thread is hypothetical at best, but to what end?

reply to post by runetang


great read

you have to remember that in genesis it states there were giants in the land even after those days of the flood

I think some of the people being born are still part of that non human but still human race, where there souls are stuck here cause they are of the earth and not of god (meaning born of human women and annunaki)(2nd rebellion angels)

also there is some speculation I read somewhere about the giant race having 6 fingers and 6 toes on, I work at a hospital and I tell you every so often we get the kid who comes in with poly digits

and more times than not they look as they have middle eastern heritage

Im not saying they are evil or inhuman, but I think some life on earth is still being produced as nephilim, its just so much more washed out now

that being said, I tend to think of indigos and how they feel they are different and I always remember the thread where someone had stated well who and what are the opposite of indigo/ crystal children

itd be weird to see the day if/when they are called, who is actually good and who is actually not

again, great read OP


ok seems like i ranted in different directions, I just meant there are people who cant be counted for cause there is no mention of who or where they went or came from

sorry for the off topic-ness sorta

[edit on 3-1-2008 by MurderCityDevil]

To the people saying Ashkenazi have absolutely no blood relation to the Semitic Jews, even in the slightest, I say this:

Yes, it does list Assyria as the main place to look for the lost tribes. Assyria, which was an Empire, stretched from where to where? Anyone know? At its' height, from Syria/Iraq, up into and through the South Caucasus (East Turkey), into Iran, and through most of Iran. Even a bit of Caspian Sea coastal areas.

So then, consider all of the documented persecution of Jews in all Islamic and Christian countries throughout the past two Millenia, which I am not providing sources for because anyone who knows about the history, knows that Jews were ran out of just about every country at one point or another, for one reason or another. What about all of that? Where was the nearest place to go for a Jew in the Northern Middle East or West Asia who is being ran out? Gee, this sea of water right here should protect us, lets sail to the other side! There were documented migrations of Semitic Jews into the area now known as Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Hungary, Georgia, particularly during the very early stages of the Khazar Empire, which converted to Judaism after the King heard arguements from representatives of the three Monotheisms. This was the one place these Jews could find safe living being that early Islam was in its conquering expansive phase at this time in history. It all adds up. These migrations were small, but nonetheless this is how Jewish religion and culture permeated Eastern Europe. Now, it is absolutely foolish to think these Semitic migrants did not intermarry with the local converts, being that after enough generations had passed, the mentality would be "we're all Jewish anyways", at least you'd think?

and to which tribes do the people of south america belong to? and australian aborigines for that matter?

Originally posted by St Udio
one might go to the "Worldwide Church of God" archives,
the late Herbert W. Armstrong produced several booklets
concerning tracing modern peoples to ancient and biblical names/peoples

try a google on either of those inputs,
i can't be sure if the booklets are on-line or you'ld need to register,
i just recall that 15? years ago i ran across that British linkage
to Saxsons (Issac's sons), the Stone-of-Scone under the British Throne
and the ancient inscriptions on that item.

& about the returning Christ would replace an existing Throne when
he returned (presumably the British Monarchy) being the tribe of Ephram
and the 13 colonies being the 13th tribe Manassas, which is part
of the birthright & blessings package.
Armstong makes interesting reading on a great deal of research

Yes, yes, yes!!! Thank you! That is EXACTLY what I was referring to and could not recall the source. Yes, Herbert W. Armstrong identified one of the Lost Tribes of Israel becoming modern day Britain - again - being of the Br'ith which became recognized as being "Br'ithish" or what we now call "British". That Saxons resulting from those who were once called "Isaac's Sons".

Thank you St. Udio - now with this recollection I may begin to continue to piece together that which I had read so long ago.

Originally posted by amitheone

I found a refutation of that:

www.bible.ca...

By the way, Armstrong is a cult leader of the early WCOG. Today, most of his teachings are abandoned and his church split.

What you refer to as a "Cult" many recognize as the one true Church of God and that which you refer to as a "leader" of the cult was and is recognized by many as being the End-Time Elijah. The "Cult" to which you refer many recognize as God's prophesied Phildelphia Era Church. The abandonment and split which you refer to many recognize as the prophesied arrival of God's Laodecian Church Era - for Armstrong spoke of it's future arrival as well.

Please be very careful when "Googling" refutations and claims and recognize that perhaps those that make such refutations are the ones being intentionally deceitful.

I am not stating that I am a follow of either Armstrong or a later adherent to his beliefs, Weinland, However I have read both extensively and find their writings much more in line with logical Biblical interpretations than I have ever come across. I guess my point here is that God said through the Holy Bible that many would come to deny His chosen prophets and their attempts to spread their truths across the land.

reply to post by runetang


I'm sorry, just a nit, but you messed up Noah's lineage. Go to the geneological records in 1 Chron 1 and we see that Noah is the descendant of Seth not Cain.

1 Adam, Seth, Enosh, 2 Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, 3 Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah.

4 The sons of Noah: [a]
Shem, Ham and Japheth. The Japhethites
....

Unless we had "Original source" DNA no such bloodline can be traced.

We're a bunch of mutts here on earth these days.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by runetang

 

I'm sorry, just a nit, but you messed up Noah's lineage. Go to the geneological records in 1 Chron 1 and we see that Noah is the descendant of Seth not Cain.

1 Adam, Seth, Enosh, 2 Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, 3 Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah.

4 The sons of Noah: [a]
Shem, Ham and Japheth. The Japhethites
....

Crap, where did I read that he was a Cainite, that all humans on Earth are therefore Cainites and inheritors of the first sin?

Doesn't that sound familiar? I dunno .. I read so much apocypha psuedopigrapha crap .. lol ..

To the other guy, I dont profess this theory to be true, I dont think it is true literally. Sure, there was a Noah, and his sons, and they fathered some peoples, but not ALL peoples.

However, according to the theory, South Americans are Japhethites because they came from Siberian migrants, umpteen thousand years ago.

The aboriginals, they'd be .. Hamitic, because they are so dark skinned. Lol.

This stuff is great!!

reply to post by runetang


Where it gets scary is when you get to cursings and blessings. Ham's line get's cursed though perhaps it's only expressed through his grandson Canaan. Unfortunately some have used this to espouse various racial theories.

Great thread runetang! I am glad that the line of Noah was clarified being from Seth and not Cain. You see I have always been taught and read (Bible, book of Enoch, etc.), growing up in a Christian home, that Jesus could not have come from a blood line that started with Murder, i.e. Cain Murdering Able. Jesus is a direct descendant of King David, who is a direct descendant of Queen Esther of Persia, who is a descendant of Noah. I could list all of the names of the family line from Jesus back to the beginning, but I will save that for another post. Too long... My point is Jesus could have never come from a blood line that was not pure and tainted-he was sinless and the Son of God-The final lamb sacrifice for all of our sins. That blood line was kept strong and pure for generations because of the coming Messiah Jesus. Just my two cents into this thread