Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

reply to post by Leyla


A lot of that falls on the individual. They didn't choose to be poor, as they didn't choose the constant state of oppression. I do agree with it being partly the governments fault for this outcome, though everybody has a responsibility to watch out for themselves and their loved ones, even if that includes breaking your culture's status quo and doing whatever it takes to rise above the piss poor conditions that are so inherently prevalent, as is the case with the Lakota.

I think I'll sign off now, before I get angry and say something I shouldn't. I can't believe the amount of ignorance and racism that has reared it's ugly head here.

reply to post by Extralien


You are wrong on the financial aid deal. They Want it, they believe they have a blood right to it.

They lost the War! Do you think other countries would just hand over the land to natives in this manor? Heck no! Why should the US. The US won the War and should reap the rewards. Stop being Defeatist Liberals.

They withdraw from the treaty, good bye support and good bye land. Reservations are a sham anyways. The Natives wont, dont and refuse to integrate or upgrade themselves. Sulking over how the White Man is oppressing them. Sounds very familiar to me actually.

Micronations and independence are all well and good but what about the "tax-free" bit Means is touting? Independence won't maintain roads and bridges or change the bulbs in street-lights, and it sure won't provide social services.

I'd be interested to know if Fox has just not delved deeply enough into his plans to discuss the realities of the situation, or if he just doesn't have plans for that. Great headline for Fox though, three cheers for sensationalist journalism!

emailed them: [email protected]


Dear Sir or Madam,



I currently subscribe to a website, abovetopsecret.com, which has a discussion going about your recent events. I was wondering if one of your delegates would be willing to join the discussion, and answer some questions that we may have in regards to your attempts to found a new nation. Here is the link to the discussion.



www.abovetopsecret.com...



Respectfully Yours,



Camain

Originally posted by blueorder
wonder if this will pave the way for "indigeouns" people in Europe reclaiming land in the future..................

I hate to interrupt your raft of intellectual posting, but what indigenous people in Europe are you referring to? Seeing as most of the people in Europe can trace their ethnic lineage back at to at least roman times, I'm intrigued as to what indigenous people you seem to believe have been displaced or oppressed.

all of these questions are not all that hard to answer. if it does happen. and ill say it again, I really don't think it will. what I do think will happen, will be a renegotiation of treaties. but, lets go through the list anyway.

Originally posted by wdkirk
Lets talk electricity. Where will you get it?

from Lakota Energy Services inc. it would be an ideal situation for them to support this newly formed nation. (not sure if nation would be the right term though..anyway)

Wind farms? who will make the wind mills for you?

wind farms are a good idea, but from what I read, there are better ways for clean energy. and you could buy them from anyone. (ill address the money in a minute)

Will you buy power from existing power plants? What is your money source?

no need. with the resources on that land, and in the black hills mountains, heck, they could sell the excess energy to the US.

Your own power plants? Do you have coal and/or natural gas reserves? Do you have oil reserves? (say hello to OPEC)

yes, yes, and yes. OPEC is not needed. like I said, that land has a butt load of natural resources. and Lakota Energy Services inc would be glad to help them developed it.

refineries? steel factories? who will you import from? Again, what will you use as money?

refineries? (already addressed.) steel factories? don't need them. just buy it (yea yea money. in a minute.) American doesn't make steel. they buy it. mostly from Mexico. smelters are ugly factories anyway.
you could import from anywhere. just as easily as you could walk across the boarder and buy a nice Christmas gift for maw and paw.

Steam power? maybe, but, also requires natural resources.

steam power is way underrated in my opinion. however, don't need it. why build when you can just buy. the land has a ton of natural resources. like any middle east country, they are rolling in cash.

Trucks? cars? wagons? ......... is there industry for any of it? If you buy it, again, what is your money source?

ideally, you would want new vehicles. but, to start off, you can just import used cars and sell them. no need for car facteries, but, would be nice eventually.

Modern machinery and house hold tools will be fun to come by.

not really. you could buy used lots of them wholesale just across the boarder.

These are all MODERN things.

its important to remember, from what Mr.. means spoke of in the speech I linked a few pages back, the don't want the modernization. to have stuff is not a sign of success. those concepts are what they want to distance from.
but dont underestimate them. to choose a simple life does not mean you have a simple mind. they are people. people can learn anything.

Will the United Nations recognize you or ask the US to take care of its dirty laundry?

yes, the UN will, and to an extent, has already recognized them. come on, you don't think the UN wouldn't jump at the chance to give US a black eye?

If you think Indian Nations are 3rd world now, wait and see at the onset of their independence.

onset yes. but it would not take long to turn that around.

Cheap labor rates may be your way out.

not so. well....in some cases maybe. service stuff for instance. however, if the Lakota were to use Lakota Energy Services to pump the oil, build the refinery units, and distribute the goods then cheep labor would not be an issue. Lakota Energy services inc through their Aboriginal Support dept. ( something like that ) they employ form 50 to 80 percent native people on the land they developed. which means good jobs. well paying jobs.

pay....that is the question isn't it.
they could be paid in any form of currency out there. since LES inc is Canadian company, I would suspect they would be paid in the Canadian dollar. they could still uses the American dollar for currency, if they wanted to. any bank would exchange currencies no problem.

and, if they were serious about creating jobs for their people it would not be hard to attract businesses to open up shop in a place with little or no tax.

I suspect what they really want is to just be left alone. not sure how the formation of such a nation will come about. but, like I said, I still find it hard to see how it would actually happen.

Originally posted by Sparky63


I was going to post something on the same lines. All the US would have to do is issue an embargo on the new Nations. Unlike Cuba they are land-locked. The US would effectively control all airspace surrounding their land & could block all traffic, by air, land or river. No chance of their pulling this off in my opinion.

someone suggested to me that NAFTA might prevent the US from blockading them. I just haven't had the time to check into it.
who knows, maybe it's true...which would be rather ironic to me...

I was in oaklahoma in the 70's, and well, I've seen how the native tribes there lived there. Don't know how much has changed since then but, well, for all those pointing out that they'll need to buy electricity and all the other luxuries of live...well, you can't miss what you don't have now. and in the 70, by what I saw, many didn't have these luxuries.

I'm still wondering if this is coming from the leadership, or a other segment of the nation, and how much of the tribe they are speaking for but, just in case this is in fact the way it is....well...

If you see the other tribes in the west follow suit, and the US do practically nothing about it.....(the tribes might have made a deal with someone or maybe something, to help them win their independance)...and members of the other tribes from the east move to these new nations, well, get ready to hunker down for some rough times.

Ain't claiming to be a prophet or a psychic even, but I might have seen how this will play out. I hope I am wrong, heck I kind of hope the Lakota gets away with this and their living conditions improve. But, well, they might be in for a long hard road....
I wouldn't give up my citizenship and join them on it. But, well, if they are serious in this move, I kind of got a feeling that they may need support from the outside of their community. If you feel your heart urging you to help them, I hope you do...

So what's this talk about indians losing the war? That doesn't automatically exclude the option of regrouping and starting a PR campaign/war.

reply to post by stumason


There are some in lapland, and personally I wouldn't mind if they'd make a claim for the region. They could get a nice small country for themselves from the northern parts of Finland, Sweden and Norway.

Russ is an old man contemplating his demise. He wants to go to the Happy Hunting Ground with his mocassins on. Typical male chimp behavior. All men deal with it, of whatever ethnicity or socio-economic background.
He's just an cranky old codger with aches and pains.

Novel idea, but this will never happen. If the US let one "nation" declare independence then others would follow all around the country in a cascade effect. The result would be a country pockmarked everywhere with individual nation states. Obviously this is unacceptable. If the Lakotas decide to proceed with this and fence themselves off, my prediction is that there will be a short period of diplomacy followed by an invasion. All leaders of the rebellion will be arrested and jailed.

It's also funny that they are declaring a tax free state. As others have said in this thread, a tax free state isn't going to be able to pay for things like education and infrastructure. I guess if you want to be uneducated and have no means of actually travelling away from your homestead this would be the perfect place for you to live.

reply to post by humanunnaki


I agree that the U.S. handled the natives incorrectly. There should have been no treaties, period. Absolute surrender and assimilation from the get go is the best thing that could have happened to them and for the country. Now we're giving many special rights and monies to them (I am part native so I can speak). The "reservations" have kept them at the bottom of the social ladder and the Casinos turn them into cynical soulless capitalist golems. "Giving" such as this is spiritually diminishing and trains them to be spoiled childish self-pitying demanding beggars.

reply to post by BlueTriangle



What education? what education do you possibly need if all you want is to live in peace of the land that you call home. Word of mouth should do sufficiently, it always has.

and so the white house is going to invade a consitutional protected peice of land, because they do not want people living peacefully and not using any non renuable resources? hey, we are slaughtering the taliban that only wanted to abolish the heroin trade in their country, im sure the white house could sell this act of evil to most of you souless people.


(Mod edit - to remove bad mannered words)




[edit on 21-12-2007 by asala]

Originally posted by dizziedame
Well happy day. This gives me hope that just maybe all peoples of the United States can/will/could do the same state by state. Withhold our federal tax money until we have a government run by the people for the people.

That's a funny notion. Governance takes money. Who's going to cut the uneployment and Medicaid checks, huh? Who's going to finance reasearch? Finally, who's going to finally deport all the illegal aliens w/o money to do so?

bad because it's disunity and treachery.

Good because it will force the government to wake up that their actions have consequences.

I highly doubt this goes far. If they try it, they will fail. But their example will bring forth GOd only knows what.

Originally posted by Bluess
This is very interesting indeed, I wonder how the Government will deal with this?

I just found the website of Russell Means, under current events, he starts with a question:

I pose this question to American taxpayers; why do you allow your taxpayer money to be used to cause death and distruction to millions of people around the world? Yet you do not say a thing when your government refuses to spend any taxpayers money to relieve the disastrous destruction of a natural disaster such as the Tsunami or the 100,000 dying in the Sudan of starvation and millions in other parts of the world? To use and overuse colloquialism. What is wrong with this picture?

Source

This question could actually apply to many nations, not only the U.S, but I am also interested in the answer...

The United States is the single largest contributor to worldwide catastrophes both governmentally and thru charities. Although I agree with the statement about expenditures on our war machine and its destructive activities, I am proud that we contribute as much as we did. And at least one statement in that was totally false...do some research because we contributed heavily to Tsunami relief.

reply to post by Gorman91



I agree that our country is doing alot of stupid things and is justifying them in crazy ways...but what is needed now is unity, not factions or divisions. Although its obvious that our country treated the natives HORRIBLY and without retribution, any solution to todays problems is not going to be found in breaking away from the union. Im sorry, but there are better ways to progress than this one.

What do we do now when every little group wants to break away? If we let the Lakotas do this then tomorrow we will have the Puerto Ricans, the Mexicans in the Southwest, the militia wackos, all the cults, all the Indian tribes and then before you kn ow it we have no nation.

The naivety displayed here is beyond stupid. Some of you need to start thinking with your brains instead of your hearts. This is 2007, the past is the past and cant be changed and things like this will just lead to more conflict.

I'm wondering more about what the State governments think about this, since it would be taking away a portion of their land. This is going to be interesting no doubt.