Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

reply to post by Extralien


Hi extralien,
Thanks for the welcome. I see from your post that you seem to be well-informed. Could you provide a helpful link? I am very interested in this subject. Thanks.

What we're seeing here is just the start of something. The American people (the vast majority of anyway) are becoming fed up with what's been happening in this country. I have friends and family scattered all over the country, and from what I've heard, there have been rumblings of sucession in the NE and NW (Mass and Washington) for the last several years.
If we can't take our country back from its corporate masters and give power back to the people, it's time to start over.
Good for the Lakota!

I don't know that the American Dream should be a goal.

Living with the multitude of nationalities that co-exist inside the USA and from that making themselves (yourself, myself...all of us together) making something of our lives that makes sense to us and gives us a sense of progress and fulfillment. Leaving behind a legacy that the futuer generations of you family can point at and say "look what he/she accomplished".

Instead, we get, a seperate state. Awesome. Why don't we just invite the US to come rolling in and annexing the territory as part of the US since you just violated a treaty. Can the Lakota stop them ? I think not.

I guess in the end, if the Lakota are a State, 51st state, paid taxes, had reps in the house and senate.....blah blah blah.....I really wouldn't care.

I do have some questions though: But do I really need a passport to enter Lakota? Can we all move there like we can any state ? Will my property taxes be high? How are the schools? Waste disposal? Sewage disposal? Colleges? Is the industry good? Do you have local attractions for visitors? Will there be a WALMART (can't live without that)? Will you move costly manufacturing jobs to Mexico and overseas? How is the housing market? What is the tax rate on non-food items? How is the interstate trucking? Can I get beer and wine there? Will you end up taxing food because you don't have the ability to make it yourself? What will the fuel tax be? Can you fund roads and road repair? How about snow removal? what if there is a tornado? can the federal government step in and help? what if there is a flood? Will you allow ALL cable tv and new or only those that you think are beneficial?

I can go on and on.

Originally posted by Extralien
Lots share the same thoughts and questions we are all asking, mostly about health and infrastructure.

Really, it isnt like these things are swell there now anyway.

Any change in the health care on Lakota reservations will be a good thing.

reply to post by wdkirk


I believe that Extralien said it best. That they have taken all of these things into consideration. You are assuming total ignorance on their behalf.
And I believe that the statement about passports meant that they would be available in the event that someone wanted to travel outside the U.S. as well as anywhere else. If they are no longer apart of this country, they would of course need passports.

reply to post by wdkirk


Why would they want reps in the senate if they are breaking away from the USA?

And with respect, why does anyone assume that things will be run the exact same way that contributed to their current position.

All the things you describe have been partly paid for by the cash that was supposed to have gone to the Lakota.

If a tribe withdraws their treaties does this mean that they no longer pay federal taxes, but also that the US Government is not longer has the trust responsibility to protect tribal lands, assets, resources and treaty rights?

What does "tribal sovereignty" mean and why is it so important to Native Americans?

Tribal sovereignty describes the right of federally recognized tribes to govern themselves and the existence of a government-to-government relationship with the United States. Thus a tribe is not a ward of the government, but an independent nation with the right to form its own government, adjudicate legal cases within its borders, levy taxes within its borders, establish its membership, and decide its own future fate. The federal government has a trust responsibility to protect tribal lands, assets, resources and treaty rights.

Edit Note:

Anyone can be an Indian as long as a recognized tribe adds them. There actually is no set standard as to who qualifies as an Indian other than they are part of a recognized tribe.

What a sweet way to disown the government. I can see it now, 250 million American all become Indians and start their own new reservation without a single shot fired….hehe


[edit on 20-12-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by sizzle
reply to post by wdkirk

 

I believe that Extralien said it best. That they have taken all of these things into consideration. You are assuming total ignorance on their behalf.
And I believe that the statement about passports meant that they would be available in the event that someone wanted to travel outside the U.S. as well as anywhere else. If they are no longer apart of this country, they would of course need passports.

In the event the Lakota become a state, the USA authorizes passports based on birth certificates. Lets hope the Lakota who want to travel have one.

if you are a separate nation? What if a Lakota person was in a foreign country and loses his/her passport? What embassy does he go to? Hold on....will all foreign countries honor the Lakota passport? What system of money will you use? How to you control interest rates and debt? Will you trade will other countries? What will back your money in order to guarantee its value? Will you be a memeber of NATO? Will you back the US or stand against it? How much do you spend on defense? Do you have a standing Army to protect you people?

no offense but
from what you've been reading?
The native Americans are one of the
most down trodden peoples in the whole world.
everything we decry being done in the world,
has been done to them.


reply to post by infinite

reply to post by wdkirk



You keep asking all these questions, as if they matter right now.

These questions have rarely been answered BEFORE a nation declares its independence. Did the Americans have it all figured out in 1776? No, they didn’t.

Besides, someone somewhere wants to invest in all the things you have mentioned. If there is a buck to be made, rest assured that someone with the money to see the project through will be there.

reply to post by wdkirk


You submit very valid questions. But once again, I have to go back to Extralien's remerks, that they are not so stupid as to not have a well-thought out plan.
Did I read somewhere that this 'plan' was more than 30 yrs in the making?
Insofar as whether other countries would even accept the Lakota's new passport; "Why wouldn't they?" I see from the many posts in this topic, from members who live in other countries, that they are in support of this movement.

I understand that the US government won the war here in America against the Native Peoples, in the sense that the US by force of arms have held and controlled the land since those days. But the struggle to be free of the yoke placed upon the necks of the losers has never ceased.

The fact that the government, through their corrupt BIA, have cheated and swindled Natives from the outset, has not deterred the resolve to be free. The fact that the government has conspired with religious groups, (in flagrant violation of their own law to keep church and state separate), to undermine and extinguish Native culture and religion, has not deterred the Lakota from keeping hold of past customs and practices. The fact that the only law the government respects is their own whimsical flavor of the month, has not silenced the voices and spirit of Native people.

This struggle will go on as long as one Native American has blood left to shed. The US government can claim anything it chooses, but the fact remains that there will never be an end to this until true freedom is achieved, or there are no more True People left. If not this time, then the next, or the time after that.

As to the remarks that Lakota are racist, this is untrue. People, individually, have always been welcomed. But there are hard feelings towards groups. Where was the black man when AIM appealed for help in the 1970s? Where were the Jews when they saw another downtrodden race? Where were the Poles who's memory of memory of Hitler should have been fresh just 30 years after the war? Where were the French, that so called bastion of freedom?

Many here claim loyalty to the concept of freedom, but if this escalates into another confrontation, as it did at the Second Battle of Wounded Knee, they will sit on their hands while others actually risk their lives for that concept? Many speak as if they hold freedom dear, but the proof is in the actions.

Can a Lakota Nation survive? It have been doing so for many years, despite all the odds. Lakota have learned to study law and medicine and business and engineering with the best of those round about them. Native people have fought for this nation in war after war, and learned that art as well. The old stereotypes are no longer valid.

Yes, many reservations are third world countries. But the excesses are due to the despair and hopelessness that some fall victim to. And the despair is because while the world watched, the Nations were raped over and over by a government in the pocket of big business. Small concessions were made, while wholesale looting was taking place.

Some feel that Native peoples should go mingle and become just another cog in the American corporate wheel of consumerism, but that is to assume there is something worthwhile about a society of slaves. To seriously suggest such a thing shows just how little the culture of Native peoples is understood outside of those who are a part of it.

I cannot say if this latest idea will come to anything, or if in the end it will be another Ghost Dance. I can say that it is better to resist than to give in. It is better to fail gloriously than to have never had the gall to make an attempt to be free. Where others speak the words of freedom, some are willing to try, and try, and try again.

Freedom is either in the soul, or it is not. Freedom is either woven into the very fabric of ones being, or it a covering for the nakedness of those who wish they had the courage to seek it.

reply to post by wdkirk


If you read back through the posts, some of your questions you just asked are already answered.

Money is only of value if consenting people agree on its value, otherwise its worthless.

The Hutt river Principality has its own stamps for postal items. Although not officially recognised, they are used and accepted as valid postal payments and are even sought by collectors worldwide. Hutt river has its own passports and licenses too.

I presume that any country that recognises the passports will be the only ones you can travel to, therefore any lost passports could be dealt with by the country your visiting or at least partly assisted. I'm not too up on that but that's the way I can see that working until a proper embassy is established, either that or there will have to be at least an office somewhere.

Interest rates and debt can be completely abolished from the word go.. on the basis that you can't spend what you haven't got. And as most here are aware, the current global banking syatem is a big fraud anyway.

Why would you want to back a country that brought about your downfall.

You seem to be asking questions that will lead us all around in circles.

If you're a peaceful nation, you'll not need an army, any attempt by any other country to invade will be a crime against humanity.

No...those are all things you take for granted. They will all be stripped away and will not be replaced quickly. They cost money. All my questions are valid.

The USA had structure built by the British.

You don't have 13 colonies along the easternaseaboard with shipping established and interstate commerce going on.

You will have to bargain and barter for it.

It will by harsh and hard. I am not saying it can't be done, just questioning whether or not the Lakota are prepared.

Lets not even get into modern health care.

THE WORLD REVOLVES ON MONEY AND ASSETS.

You will not survive on your own.

I did not set the standard.

Without defense you will fall. Sure, say its a crime against humanity. The victors write the history books.............again.

Have fun without (your favorite fossil fuel here) to run the tractors and combines in the field or refrigerants to keep food cold and protect it from spoiling.

Sure horses and plows are great but they can't make the volume you will need to survive.

What about clean water?

Trade for resources will be required.


Come on.....I am not trying to say Lakota shouldn't proceed.....but............rather have ALL things been considered for the good of the people or for the fool and his pride?

Before you label me as your typical white American:

I am:

German
Swedish
Swiss


and...........................you guessed it.................native American.

Not only native American but I am a direct decendent of William Brant.

reply to post by wdkirk

Lets not even get into modern health care.

Why not? since you brought it up. From the research that I have done, most american indians do not seek' 'white-man's' medicine. From what I read, they have established shaman or medicine men.
After studying their findings on health matters, I tend to agree with them. They have a more natural approach to health care, vs the synthetic drugs provided by the average drug company.

Originally posted by GUICE2
Does anyone think that the Us government will declare war on these people and claim them to be a terrorist threat? It makes sense that they would do something like that and then we could have the biggest WACO on our hands.....i mean we are talking genocide here because according to bush they would be enemy combatants just like we would be. The only difference is all we do is talk but they are actually taking action and that is more noticeable.

I'm ashamed to raise my hand on this- but its very possible that the US will rage war on them. But I believe the best way is to leave the Indians alone and let them live in peace. If they do act on this talk about millions of people very angry- I will be one of them.

I'm very surprised and astonished that the Lakota Indians did this. But they have every right to- sad to say the US did much more then just take the lands from the Indians too. Hawaii was once a monarcy and the US troops dismantled it going against the orders of the President to restore their power. (Look it up- around in the late 1880-90's.)

The new Lakota Nation and her people are very brave and I'm very proud of them. Heh can't believe I said that... When I first read this -I was like what??!! All I have to say not one hair on their (Lakota) head better not be harmed- or I will be a very unhappy camper with the US Government.

Keep that in mind when you are hit by an epidemic (like the flu).

Or you have (name your favorite cancer).

Need an organ transplant?

Have diabetes (genetic disposition)

infantcy mortality rate?

dental hygene?

Any number of upper and lower GI tract parasites and diseases?

This list can also go on and on.

Got any good hospitals? what about doctor?

How is your supply of standard drugs? Penicillin? What about standard innoculations?

I go to the res regularly in Western NY to get gas.

It is about 42 cents cheaper then the station beside me a gal.

Originally posted by infinite
I really would love to visit a Indian reservation.

Their culture, traditions and religion are so beautiful to study, read, etc. I really do hope they achieve their goal.