Ron Paul keeps white supremacist donation

reply to post by FredT


You have got to be kidding me…..
So far on this thread you have done nothing but say the same thing over and over and over again, speaking of your ethics and your morals. Why don’t you come up with intelligent argument to your position? I’m getting very tired of reading this is a moral or ethical issue, as they have no place in any open discussion. As I have stated in my previous thread, morals and ethics are not a global consensus, they are your personal choices and have absolutely no business in the political arena. Keep your morals and ethics to yourself because they are yours and yours alone.
You are in fact making a complete fool of yourself and discrediting any further positions you may have on any other topics. Furthermore your statements regarding Ron Paul are borderline slander and libel. You are drawing connections where there are none and you seem to think you are going to sway any Ron Paul supporters in favor of your position. I will tell you wholeheartedly, that will not happen. I am a 9/11 truth movement activist and yet I still support Ron Paul on the very important issues he addresses. Honestly you’ve been told over and over again in the most articulate ways, by numerous people on this thread who actually have something to say about your specious reasoning.
However you got the tag “subject matter expert” is beyond me. You are obviously the furthest thing from an expert on this particular subject matter. It would appear you actually have never studied anything pertaining to politics, ethics, morals or otherwise. Quite frankly, I couldn’t be more disgusted with another man’s personal view of the situation, than I am with yours. I think this thread is getting out of hand as people keep repeating themselves to you and you have absolutely no argument to the contrary.
I will say it again because I’m not sure you understand, morals and ethics are not a global consensus they are your personal choice. There is nothing more to be said on this matter, get a life and get educated.

reply to post by untouchable


Exactly. It's an individual perspective, as is the one he's so against.


As for the rest of them.

The money is not being returned. Get over it.

Better in the hands of Paul than any racialist. Get over it.

Politics and individual ethics are two completely different things. Get over it.

Your childish attempt at discrediting Ron Paul didn't work. Get over it.

Quit post whoring and realize that you've failed at whatever little smear campaign you were attempting.

reply to post by tyranny22

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by jsobecky

And that is the point. RP chooses to accept money from racists.

yup. you are correct.

Is he right or wrong for it? There is no answer for that because right or wrong is a matter of opinion. No matter how much you try to force your opinion on another person, it will no doubt remain just that ... an opinion. Same can be said of the Paul camp.

Finally. We understand each other. We may not agree, but we understand each other.

That's good enough for me.

LOL "chooses to accept"

He did not return it. It is not the same thing. It is not like he was seeking money from that guy.

reply to post by Navieko

Originally posted by Navieko
... Just because Ron Paul did not submit to the political correctness that the party line way of thinking normally would -- it does not mean he had no point(s) to make by specifically not doing it. Perhaps the 'moral highground' he took isn't the one you may have taken, but doesn't mean there wasn't one, and certainly doesn't mean it's not one that is more important to take -- given the context his entire campaign message is based on and the state of the nation at the moment.

His point was, there is a much more important issue at hand that needs to be addressed...rather than always ignoring those issues and submitting to the petty mainstream line of priorities, when it comes to cases like these. So you see, there was a much larger, precise point he was making... and to make it all the more clear, he purposly did not submit to the media's priorities by refunding the $500.

This is why we think he was correct in doing what he did.

Do you understand?

[edit on 21/12/07 by Navieko]

No, I don't understand.

This is not an issue of "submitting to political correctness that the party line way of thinking would have".

Morality and political correctness are not the same thing.

I personally think that RP is breathing some rarefied air that is totally unfamiliar to him. He has never handled this much attention. He has never played on the national stage before. He is a neophyte in that respect, and he is bound to make mistakes of inexperience.

To make this a matter of "submitting to the media's priorities" is wishful thinking. The media is not who he has to worry about. It's the voters who will make up their minds whether this is an important issue or not.

My experience is that most, if not all, politicians drop questionable donors like a hot potato. There's a reason for that, and it isn't political correctness. It's a reaction formed by years of experience in what matters to American voters.

RP is still reeling over his recent success in fund raising, and has decided that he can take this one step further. He will learn that he must answer to the voters for this.

I have heard some good ones over the years, but this BS that is being peddled as an excuse to keep the money takes the cake.

Put some more lipstick on that pig. And remember - you can't polish a turd, not even if you use the Constitution.

RP may very well have sold his chance at the presidency for $500.

Originally posted by untouchable
You have got to be kidding me…..
So far on this thread you have done nothing but say the same thing over and over and over again, speaking of your ethics and your morals. Why don’t you come up with intelligent argument to your position?

Im sure you are getting tired of reading about it because no one as of yet has come up with anything other than:

Some weak reference to defending the right of neo nazi's for free speech. While its admirable and I support the neo nazi's right to speak his mind, how exactly does returning violate said rights?

Or its better off in his hands than someone elses?

I mean this is the best you have right? its been repeated time and time again by those in the Paul camp how many pages of this flimsy justification are you going to put forth? I mean is this your intelligent argument you are putting forth.

Its an ethical and moral issue as to accept or NOT accept money from neo nazi's

I’m getting very tired of reading this is a moral or ethical issue, as they have no place in any open discussion.

I understand as they do put you candidate in a bad light for sure. No wonder you keep trying to spin it in other directions.

As I have stated in my previous thread, morals and ethics are not a global consensus, they are your personal choices and have absolutely no business in the political arena.

Clearly as I said before you and the rest of the militia are making a case that morals and ethics play NO part in the Paul run for the president.

But hey, show me that there is no global consensus about neo nazi's? BTW citing davidduke.org is not fair play

Keep your morals and ethics to yourself because they are yours and yours alone.

Funny, you want me to holster my morals and ethics much like Ron paul did in accepting this money.

You are in fact making a complete fool of yourself and discrediting any further positions you may have on any other topics. Furthermore your statements regarding Ron Paul are borderline slander and libel.

*ring* Hello pot? its the kettle.... YOUR Black

Thanks for the laugh I needed it. It seems that anybody that dare disagree with the Ron paul camp or his militia falls in this group eh.

Ive made a fool out of myself before (Usually there is alot of beer and wine involved)

As far as slander and libel go, now who is playing the fool

I am a 9/11 truth movement activist and yet I still support Ron Paul on the very important issues he addresses. Honestly you’ve been told over and over again in the most articulate ways, by numerous people on this thread who actually have something to say about your specious reasoning.

Ah a 911 truther. How exactly does that relate to ron paul accepting money from neo nazi's? Yes some have been articulate some less so As far as specious resoning goes, how about you answer that call from the pot

However you got the tag “subject matter expert” is beyond me. You are obviously the furthest thing from an expert on this particular subject matter.

Ah the hallmark of a true 911 Truther. When in doubt go ad hominem on them. You can go on about who, or what I am but my message stays the same. He showed a decided lack of ethics and morals in accepting money from neo nazi's. In regards to my FSME tag, if you step back and take a deep breath, let it out and actually do a bit of research you might find that its for the medical forum. But hey who am I to get in the way of a good yet pointless rant.

It would appear you actually have never studied anything pertaining to politics, ethics, morals or otherwise. Quite frankly, I couldn’t be more disgusted with another man’s personal view of the situation, than I am with yours.

Good. If anything at least some of my message is getting through. Im more sad than disgusted by the seemingly blind allegiance you seem to be showing to a decision that lacks ethics and morality.

There is nothing more to be said on this matter, get a life and get educated.

As I said before I picked one up at WalMart the other day. Cheap too. They were out of morals and ethics. However the clerk told me that you might find some sale on Craigslist and its only $500.00

[edit on 12/21/07 by FredT]

Morality and political correctness are not the same thing.

What is immoral about keeping the money?

To make this a matter of "submitting to the media's priorities" is wishful thinking. The media is not who he has to worry about. It's the voters who will make up their minds whether this is an important issue or not.

LOL i have read some funny thing here but that takes the cake!

Who tells the voters what the issues are?
Who decides what is news?

My experience is that most, if not all, politicians drop questionable donors like a hot potato. There's a reason for that, and it isn't political correctness. It's a reaction formed by years of experience in what matters to American voters.

No it is because the have no spine. They have no ablility to stand up for what they believe in. They follow the opinion polls of the msm instead of what they know is right.

He will learn that he must answer to the voters for this.

How many elections has he won in his district? He knows.

RP may very well have sold his chance at the presidency for $500.

LOL you keep believin that. If this is the worst they can do to someone who has been in congress as long as he has, then he has absolutly nothing to fear.

reply to post by Freenrgy2

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

reply to post by jsobecky

 

I say that the right to vote is the only right he actually has. It is much more important than the right to donate.

I believe this statement sums up your position for me. You see, to you, it's not about the Constitution or what rights we ACTUALLY have. It is about what rights you THINK he OUGHT to have. How presumptuous of you to think you can ascribe which rights people ought to have based on their personal beliefs. Shame.

Pardon me, but whenever somebody tries the old "Shame" routine, I picture an old toothless crone wearing a babushka and clucking her tongue.

Do you get the feeling that it's not working on me?

Try again, if you want.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
To paraphase Bush (not that I really want to):

"You're either for the Constitution and individual liberty, or you're against it."

I believe Ron Paul has drawn a very definite line in the sand and it's time we stood for the principles that this nation was built upon.

You keep going around and around about this. What does this have to do with the Constitution?

Oh, I see. Ron Paul is a strict Constitutionalist, so if you mouth the word "Constitution" enough times, you'll somehow connect this issue to the Constitution. Is that it?

The Constitution was explicitly designed to allow change - and it's been changed several times.

All that we want is that it's actually 1) changed instead of being completely disregarded, as it is now, and 2) our natural rights are respected.

Let me put it this way.....
RP has done an interview in which he stated he has very different beliefs than the donor in question. He stated he is opposed to what that donor thinks.
Even though he did this it is "morally and ethically" wrong if he doesnt return the $500?

Originally posted by shooterbrody
What is immoral about keeping the money?

Are you saying he does not consider the neo nazi cause to be immoral?

No it is because the have no spine. They have no ablility to stand up for what they believe in.

So again are you saying he has no issue with neo nazi's?

How many elections has he won in his district? He knows.

Hey David Duke won elections as well. that did not help him nation wide. Districs can be gerrymandered to suit individual and party needs. Nothing new there.

LOL you keep believin that. If this is the worst they can do to someone who has been in congress as long as he has, then he has absolutly nothing to fear.

This may very well be where he jumps the shark IMHO.

Are you saying he does not consider the neo nazi cause to be immoral?

Are you saying RP is a neo nazi or endorses neo nazi beliefs?

So again are you saying he has no issue with neo nazi's?

So again do you believe RP is a neo nazi or endorses neo nazis?

Cause I'm pretty sure he chatted with Cavuto and said he is against all that donor believes.

Districs can be gerrymandered to suit individual and party needs.

Are you implying RP has participated in voter fraud now.LOL keep grasping!!
You will just throw anything out and hope something will stick!

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Exactly. It's an individual perspective, as is the one he's so against.

Guilty as chrged Im always against neo nazi's. So many in this thread seem to think that accepting money from them is okay you goota wonder

As for the rest of them.
The money is not being returned. Get over it.

That was pretty clear from the stements made by his campaign. Thats the very reason this thread is here because his acceptance of money from neo nazi's

Better in the hands of Paul than any racialist. Get over it.

Yes, far better to even hint at compromising your ethics and morality to get your hands on $500.00

Politics and individual ethics are two completely different things. Get over it.

Im not sure how you can even make this separation. I know you want to what with all of the ethical implications here but really. Ethics are an intergral part of everything we do in life.

Your childish attempt at discrediting Ron Paul didn't work. Get over it.

No childish attempt was needed he did just fine on his own.

Quit post whoring and realize that you've failed at whatever little smear campaign you were attempting.

If anybody is post whoring its the Ron paul camp. There are what 3-4 people in the thread that have taken the opposite view of this ethical and moral issue of taking money from neo-nazi's

reply to post by shooterbrody



:shk: those are simply questions your posts raised. Go back and read it. I have little doubt that Ron paul is NOT a Nazi and I have said so on numerous occasions. As far as districs in Texas being cooked up, why was half thier legislature running off to Oklahoma a few years ago?


[edit on 12/21/07 by FredT]

Thats the very reason this thread is here because his acceptance of money from neo nazi's

Ya know I would hate to call someone, especially a "subject matter expert" a liar in public, FredT you do understand it was ONE person, singular, not plural from which the donation came. You seem to keep making mistakes as to how many donators there were.

reply to post by shooterbrody

Originally posted by shooterbrody

What is immoral about keeping the money?

The money stinks, for starters.

You give encouragement to the cause of the racist. You make him think that his views are as valid as the views of a mentally balanced person. You allow him to stink up your campaign with his fetid perspective.

To make this a matter of "submitting to the media's priorities" is wishful thinking. The media is not who he has to worry about. It's the voters who will make up their minds whether this is an important issue or not.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
LOL i have read some funny thing here but that takes the cake!

Who tells the voters what the issues are?
Who decides what is news?

Well, I guess that depends on the voter, doesn't it?

My experience is that most, if not all, politicians drop questionable donors like a hot potato. There's a reason for that, and it isn't political correctness. It's a reaction formed by years of experience in what matters to American voters.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
No it is because the have no spine. They have no ablility to stand up for what they believe in. They follow the opinion polls of the msm instead of what they know is right.

And the MSM gets their poll results from the voters...

He will learn that he must answer to the voters for this.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
How many elections has he won in his district? He knows.

Exactly my point. His district isn't enough to elect him president, not even if he garners every vote there.

Sleeping with racists may play in his district, but it won't play in Peoria.

As far as districs in Texas being cooked up, why was half thier legislature running off to Oklahoma a few years ago?

Was RP in that group FredT? Cmon you can do better than that.

Jso and FredT,

I hope you realize the height of hypocrisy you both have reached. I also hope you spend as much time looking in to the backgrounds of all donators in other candidates finances.

Remember it was a $500 donation from an individual. As one of you is an expert, and both have points in the hundreds of thousands, I'm sure you both will be around through the elections. When REAL scandals show up I will expect just as much from you both as you have shown here.

It is more than apparent that this was contrived by the Illuminatti Elite in the hopes of smearing Ron Paul. We shouldn't expect any less from these ruling neocons who wish to make slaves of all of us. The real issue here is that the US Government is a Joke due to the Corporate control and influence which dictates the decisions of all Americans and wishes you to believe that you live in a free society with a choice between two parties which are controlled by the same puppetteers.

You will not be truly free until Electronic Ballot boxes are eliminated and recounts can be officially and accurately done and other people are free to participate in elections without being shut out by the controlled Media.

I looked at a recent MSNBC poll and apparently Ron Paul isn't even in the race as there was no mention of his percentage support.

Wake up America your Freedoms are shrinking by the day.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote that won't be supporting a dictator.

reply to post by shooterbrody

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Let me put it this way.....
RP has done an interview in which he stated he has very different beliefs than the donor in question. He stated he is opposed to what that donor thinks.

No! Seriously? You don't say!

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Ya know I would hate to call someone, especially a "subject matter expert" a liar in public,

Now, just what does this repeated reference to FredT's status as a Subject Matter Expert (in the medical field, as he has already stated) add to the conversation?

It reeks of ad hominem. Please stop it.