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A Serious Question for those opposed to masonry

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posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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This is a serious question not designed to ask for trolls.

Have any of the members of ATS run into any New, Current or Unused, negative points or Anti-Masonic information found in their web surfing? As opposed to the ones we see posted routinely here. No rants please.

The purpose of this thread is to aid my own research and edification. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a serious interest in what people object to about our order.




posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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MS...

In all honesty, I have found 95% of my queries or posts to the Brothers on the board to be answered in an informative and inspiring way...

Now...The other 5% seem to be borne of those who would choose to disrupt or denigrate the craft in whatever way possible...

I am in no ways an expert when it comes to anti/pro Masonic posts on a board by any stretch...

However, as a newcomer to Masonsry, I have felt the Brothers here, "draw in" if you will, and protect me from the rubbish which can sometimes come with induction or showing a potential brother round a lodge...

I cannot wait till the middle of January...I truly believe the Craft has SO very much to make me a better man...But together with my heart, I can better myself in order to make me a great vessel for my community...

To give people who may not have a chance at a GREAT education (or lesser, no need to make Rhode Scholars out of everyone), should they choose that path...

Also, in the part of the world I live in, money could be VERY well spent in "scholarships" in alternative farming...

I hope the many brothers on this board read this post and offer me their thoughts and so on...They will be much appreciated...

Obviously, early on I will pull my head in...no preaching to the choir....

Its a matter of learning who I am with and so on..

Anyways....Much too much info

Thanks to the Brothers who have contributed to this thread

Peace



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Rilence
 


I agree with you about the brothers here. You have my sincerest welcome to the fraternity. Try and keep in mind that you will get out of it what you are willing to put in. Most Brothers will be more than willing to help you learn and grow.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Rilence
 


Rilence, glad to see you are taking the next step. I am looking forward to when I can address you as 'Brother'.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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Im highly interested and in fact want to become an initiate and have made the first step in contacting a local lodge

Im glad this board has FMs who give both sides of the story

Ive learned a lot from a few of you great posters

Question:

Is there a conflict with being a mason and supporting Israel?

I realize there are Jewish Masons, but I am moreso asking specifically about Israel. Because you sometimes find Jews in the US opposed to the state of Israel.

I also read anti-Zionist propaganda all over boards and the truth is Zionism was a movement to create a Jewish state. Which is done. We actually live in Post Zionism.

I dont want to get into the polemic of that debate of whether she recieves too much aid from the US, is an evil colonizer, etc.

I will just have to agree to disagree....

but my question was is there a conflict there with Masonry?

would it depend on the lodge?

all comments welcome

[edit on 15-12-2007 by romanowski]



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by romanowski
 


Ones political views do not determine candidacy for Masonry, ones standing in the community and belief in Diety are the only prerequisites. Our Worshipful Master last year was Jewish and I could not tell you whether he supported Israel or not, to me it did not make any difference nor did my stance on it. We do not discuss religion or politics in Lodge as topics of this nature could bring disharmony to our peaceful institution.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 12:34 PM
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Thank you that is what I thought



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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Positions of power are what really matter in the final conclusion. It's about power over the community and where that community goes. Their fears and their ego's drive them to want control.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by cloakndagger
Positions of power are what really matter in the final conclusion. It's about power over the community and where that community goes. Their fears and their ego's drive them to want control.


Yes, I think this would be my vote for the "WTF?" secret society quote of the week. I can assure you, if you want power in anything other than your local masonic charity the fraternity is not for you.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by cloakndagger
 


Assuming you are talking about most of the anti-Masons, I agree completely. Anti-Masons tend to want everything to think and believe the way they themselves do, and are offended when someone disagrees with them. We see this throughout all of history, even recent history, as both the Nazi and Communist Parties were self-proclaimed anti-Masons, and we all know the story of those control freaks.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by cloakndagger
 


The prospect of power over community never crossed my mind when applied to the anti-masonic faction. This is an interesting and unique approach. It would explain a fair number of the opinions expressed .



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Student
 


I think it is simply part of the mindset for people who desperately seek to explain the world around them. They go through life and at some point perceive some sort of injustice committed against them, which does not work out fairly. Forgetting that life sometimes isn't fair, they seek to characterize unfairness in their world by blaming mythic groups of legend and lore. By doing so they create a realm of good and evil that is simpler for them to understand, because it ignores the shades of gray that actually make up this world.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


The “scapegoat” theory is one I’ve run into before. Not may of the posts here seem to use it or even fall under that particular umbrella.

I was hoping for some information and specific charges or problems from some of the die hard anti-masons here at ATS by now. I do appreciate the help so far.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Student
 


Umm - well of course posts here would not use it, the nature of the theory is that peoples attempts to simplfy and explain their world is done subconsciously. The reality is MOST of the posts here follow under this umbrella, especially when they go long enough and the subliminal reasons begin to peak out underneath the layers of deception. No one comes out and says "You know, I'm just trying to simplify my complex world here and I'd like to use freemasonry was as scapegoat for all sorts of personal and community problems I see."

This is exactly why you will never get any real response from the anti-masons, because once you drill down you find all they are doing is looking for a scapegoat.

[edit on 15-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


For many years now I’ve been researching several aspects of Free Masonry. The latest addition to the group has been to try and compile a list of areas that are objected to about our fraternity. To those of us on the inside it is difficult understand the animosity by some people.

Those of us who either read here or post here are familiar with most quoted objections. What I was hoping for was some rational honest input from those opposed. You do have to admit that we have some articulate knowledgeable people who have profound objections. These are the ones I was hoping to get to join the discussion.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Student
This is a serious question not designed to ask for trolls.

Have any of the members of ATS run into any New, Current or Unused, negative points or Anti-Masonic information found in their web surfing? As opposed to the ones we see posted routinely here. No rants please.

The purpose of this thread is to aid my own research and edification. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a serious interest in what people object to about our order.




I'm not a troll.

No, I stay away from the web surfing now because it was only giving me a headache from wearing the tin foil hat, lol.

Haven't found anything new since the comment that my father-in-law has stated that has stuck with me and has sparked my interest along with my personal relationship with Jesus.

Personally, I don't see any good with secrecy and I can see where it can and will often lead to corruption with a bunch of "big headed fools". Please don't take that personally, this is just based on my own observations and experiences. Societies with secrets can form their own agenda that will often deviate from the goal and will manipulate and control those who are not on board. This is why I believe we need more honest people not only in our government but in society as a whole. AND NO, I don't believe all masons are corrupt, my problem lies and only lies with the whole ideology of it. As far as religion goes, I'm sorry. I will try harder to respect everyone's own personal beliefs and focus on the problem of corruption itself. I will continue on my own and only on my own to find out if Satan is really involved behind the scenes of freemasonry with an open mind and less accusations or assumptions.



posted on Dec, 15 2007 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by spirit7
 


Corruption is to be fought by all well meaning men. Every mason on this board can get behind that idea with you.

If you substitute the “private” for “secret” when it comes to masonry you would be closer to the truth. While we do take an obligation, part of which does involve not revealing the “secrets” of masonry, they are referring to the specifics of the degrees and the modes of recognition. These are available on the web with a bit of looking. We swear not revel them, but what is in print is free for all to read. The other point is not telling something a brother tells me in confidence.

The rest of what we consider private is “what is said in lodge stays in lodge”, for the most part it is dull house keeping matters, how to raise money for the Masonic orphanage, how much the bills are that month and the like.

I agree “secrecy” can be a source of problems if there are no checks and balances. The very diversity of the membership and the fact that membership is basically open to all who are interested and met or rather minimal requirements.


PS you don't seem to be a Troll

[edit on 15-12-2007 by Masonic Student]



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