First post: What is the truth?

After lurking for a couple of days, I decided to join up today. This is my first post, so I hope its in the correct section.

What I want to know is how many people feel as if facts are constantly being distorted? How accurate are history books? How long has the manipulation of facts been going on?

I try to be open-minded and highly critical about everything I encounter. I do this because usually you have to sift through 95% opinion to find the 5% of truth. Does anyone else agree with my contention that the "truth" may not actually exist?

Let me know and thanks for the forum.

The truth is what still hangs around - usually to bite you in the arse - when you stop believing in it.

The truth is the actual facts of the matter in question.

To deny that there are facts, and thus truth, is mere sophistry.

Truth is aught. There are two things that drive Man (Human), Truth and Falsehood. Truth is aught.

The truth is not about rational thought (at least solely). You've got to use your intuition a lot in trying to find it. Finding the truth is an ongoing struggle, but as they say, it will set you free.

The "truth" is written by the winners....

I often go to different recycle centers we have here in Denmark, to find old educational books related to science, cultur and history...

Try and look up some old books written in the 1950's - 1970's -1980's-1990's and compare them with books written today...

Especially issues like energy development and science seem to take radical turns without any real explanation within the books...

The truth swings up and down, back and forth.

So truth in my opinion is written by the winners, its up to you to look into stuff to see if you believe their truth.

reply to post by Bluess


I have done the same thing with US history books. It's amazing how accounts of events like battles have changed over time. It is also amazing to trace the evolution of political correctness in education.

reply to post by Bluess


Would this not be falsehood? Truth never needs to be rewritten, it is infinite. Falsehood holds no truth and need to be rewritten to convince it's audience. Truth is aught.

At this point, I feel that everything that I have learned, or perceived as truth has been called into question. Can we trust what we see with our eyes? We certainly have problems trusting what other people tell us or trusting what is written. Is there such a thing or concept as truth or falsehood? Are they true or false compared to what? Is a truth just a reification of an idea that is accepted by most and made real? We understand what our language reflects as truth in our culture, our accepted definitions of the word, but it's just a concept at best. Maybe there are no truths, just lesser degrees of lies.

As for me, I'm still working on my operational definition of the word "truth."

Originally posted by DamnedDirtyApes
At this point, I feel that everything that I have learned, or perceived as truth has been called into question. Can we trust what we see with our eyes? We certainly have problems trusting what other people tell us or trusting what is written. Is there such a thing or concept as truth or falsehood? Are they true or false compared to what? Is a truth just a reification of an idea that is accepted by most and made real? We understand what our language reflects as truth in our culture, our accepted definitions of the word, but it's just a concept at best. Maybe there are no truths, just lesser degrees of lies.

As for me, I'm still working on my operational definition of the word "truth."

I enjoy reading incredible writings like this. Brillant in all ways. I am now pondering my definition as well. (5 Stars).

Originally posted by DamnedDirtyApes
At this point, I feel that everything that I have learned, or perceived as truth has been called into question. Can we trust what we see with our eyes? We certainly have problems trusting what other people tell us or trusting what is written. Is there such a thing or concept as truth or falsehood? Are they true or false compared to what? Is a truth just a reification of an idea that is accepted by most and made real? We understand what our language reflects as truth in our culture, our accepted definitions of the word, but it's just a concept at best. Maybe there are no truths, just lesser degrees of lies.

As for me, I'm still working on my operational definition of the word "truth."

See I think what you're saying is the truth. The search is the truth. There may be some end points where one thinks s/he has discovered truth(s), but if new information comes along to change that, then so be it. This is the truth, the open-minded search for what's true/real... Even if most if not all truths will be temporal...

Think of a theory like evolution, and how rigorously it is defended, even in the face of a plethora of conflicting information.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by Raoul Duke]

reply to post by Raoul Duke


Maybe that is it, the truth is in the search for it. Finding your own truths versus allowing people to tell you what they want you to believe. This reminds me of something I read by Heidegger, in that once you give something a label or name, it loses its essence.

And to blaqmyst, I appreciate the compliment and stars.

Originally posted by DamnedDirtyApes
reply to post by Raoul Duke

 

Maybe that is it, the truth is in the search for it. Finding your own truths versus allowing people to tell you what they want you to believe. This reminds me of something I read by Heidegger, in that once you give something a label or name, it loses its essence.

I took a course where Heidegger was represented (by the professor) as a proto-postmodernist... And I know what you're saying is very much a big theme for a lot of postmodern thinkers. The idea that once you give a model or a label to something that reifies it. When in fact at it's essence it's still in motion (changing, becoming, etc...)



[edit on 2-12-2007 by Raoul Duke]

If the truth is infinite, then can we safely assume that the truth will eventually become falsehood? Couldn't falsehoods be considered truth if they eventually lead you to the truth? If truth is infinite, then falsehood is just a lesser degree of the truth.

I think truth and lies can be the same thing. Truth can be used to lie, and lies can be used to find the truth.

It's all a continuous loop that makes me wanna do acid one more time.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by indierockalien]

Before there was something, there was nothing. Thought inspired nothing and became something. This is truth. But to say there was something before nothing would be falsehood. In order to prove this falsehood, I would have to continue to present my argument in order to convince the observer. Truth needs no convincing.

Example: All matter broken down to its quantum level is thought. The Creator, the universe down to a one cell organism are one. This is truth, as above so below. To say all things that exist is not of the Creator is falsehood. Before there was something, there was a thought, this thought belonged to the Creator. Would this not be truth and if the Creator is infinite, would not the thoughts from the Creator be infinite?

The truth is the truth is the truth

Lying underneath all the beliefs and opinions, underpinning all that has been written and all that has been said, is what actually happens, what actually is. The ultimate substratum of reality. The facts.

This is the truth. It is real. It does not change depending on your point of view. But it is quite likely to be obscured by your personal desires, beliefs and circumstances, and thus invisible from your point of view.

There is no multiplicity of mutually contradictory truths. Truth is always singular. But there is a multiplicity of mutually contradictory opinions about what the truth is, and this often confuses people.

If you ask others to tell you what is the truth, you will hear many contradictory things. You will grow confused and may start to believe that there are indeed many truths, or that there is no truth at all. Both these beliefs are false.

Every one of us must find the truth for himself. And each of us can only know the truth about a few things; for the rest, we must make do with informed opinions, which we recognize as such and do not mistake for facts.

How to know the truth

Finding out the truth, even about a few things, is very hard. But there are a few techniques that can help. For example:

1. We can test the truth of a statement by asking whether it fits what we observe in the world around us. For example, we know it is true that water flows downhill, never up, because we can see this for ourselves.
   
2. We can test the truth of a statement by seeing how well it fits with statements we already know are true. This is not an infallible guide to the truth, but it is an infallible guide to falsehood: if a statement contradicts what we already know to be true, it is false.
   

A final word

Nobody can ever know the truth about everything, but there is no shame in holding an opinion extrapolated from what one already knows know to be true. What is shameful is to hold an opinion because that is the way we want reality to be.

reply to post by Astyanax

Very well said.

The truth will be revealed only when the first absolute bishop is realized late next year.

Until then, there will nothing more that speculation and half truths.

Originally posted by dirtonwater
The truth will be revealed only when the first absolute bishop is realized late next year.

Until then, there will nothing more that speculation and half truths.

Care to elaborate? If true this is a pretty profound statement...

"Truth" is an "idea". Many philosophers have pondered what truth is.

Philosophers and everyone will endlessly ramble on about what they think truth is. The sad fact is that the only truth is that there is no ultimate truth. There are only ideations that some of us can generally agree upon via concensus for short periods of time until something causes us to redefine that generally agreed upon "truth".

Philosphical peanut gallery - out,

-Euclid

Originally posted by Astyanax
The truth is the truth is the truth


How to know the truth

Finding out the truth, even about a few things, is very hard. But there are a few techniques that can help. For example:

1. We can test the truth of a statement by asking whether it fits what we observe in the world around us. For example, we know it is true that water flows downhill, never up, because we can see this for ourselves.
   
2. We can test the truth of a statement by seeing how well it fits with statements we already know are true. This is not an infallible guide to the truth, but it is an infallible guide to falsehood: if a statement contradicts what we already know to be true, it is false.
   

A final word

Nobody can ever know the truth about everything, but there is no shame in holding an opinion extrapolated from what one already knows know to be true. What is shameful is to hold an opinion because that is the way we want reality to be.

I disagree. Truth is fluid and changes from perspective. I won't pick apart your entire dissertation as it will take too long and I don't really care that much. I'll just point out one obvious example:

You stated: "we know it is true that water flows downhill, never up, because we can see this for ourselves."

To someone in Australia watching a waterfall the water appears to be flowing downhill. But someone (if they were able) observing the scene from 10Km away, in space, in a geo-synchronis orbit above the equator, with their head pointing towards the north polar region, will see that same water flowing "apparently" up hill because of their unique perspective. Their truth would be in this case that water does indeed flow up hill.

As I said the truth is fluid. As another example:

1. In the 1960s, in the USA - the Soviet Union was the enemy. We would go to war with them if they did anything to us. We were prepared to wage war at the first sign of aggression. That was the truth.
2. In the 1990's, in the USA - the Soviet Union broke down, we helped them, we were their friends, we traded with them, we embraced them as brothers in democracy. That was the truth.
3. In this new century, in the USA. - The Russians are becoming the enemy, their government is rattling their sabers against the USA telling us to keep out of their internal affairs. They are the enemy now. That is the truth.

The truth is fluid. The "truth" changes. The only truth there is; is that there is no truth.

-Euclid


[edit on 4-12-2007 by euclid]