Ronald Weinland Predicts Large Attack On US & Opening of the Seventh Seal of Revelation & Begining o

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by 123glory

 

Due to the prophecies of Malachi promising the return of Elijah prior to the second coming and due to the similarities of one of the witnesses of Revelation in regards to what Elijah did in his lifetime, many Christians, including myself, believe he will be one of the witnesses.

CLICK HERE to see a good article on the two witnesses and their possible identities. Most people believe they will either be Elijah and Moses or Elijah and Enoch.

"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes." -Malachi 4:5

[edit on 1/30/2008 by AshleyD]

It still does not say Eliah is one of the final witnesses. But if we are to believe Eliah is one of the witnesses, then RW is wrong as he proclaim Mr. Armstrong as the end-time Eliah, but Mr. Armstrong is dead so how can he be one of the two witnesses? Besides, RW does not say Eliah/Mr. Armstrong is one of the witnesses. RW says himself is one witness and the other one comes later.

Also, I checked the site you gave me, and found under their "about us" they claims that they do not believe in any Church and they believe in the rapture, which is not in the bible. What is your take on that?

Like I say, if we are to be specific about the bible, then we must be with everything. Where in the bible does it say God's final Church is one that does not belong to any church but a spiritual church where all people become one based on faith? Note these two quotes I took out from their "about us" statements:
"We believe in the imminent return of our Lord for His Church (The Rapture), to be followed first by a period of judgment (The Great Tribulation) and then His final return to Earth with His church to Rule and reign for 1000 years (The Millennium)."

"That the only true church is that invisible body of believers from all walks of life and every denomination and faith who have trusted Him and only Him for their redemption."

While what they believe in the above quote makes sense to me, but where in the bible does it say that God's true church is the invisible body of believers from all walks of life and every deonmination?

See, if we were to be specific in referencing the bible, we must be specific with all sources. And if the above source is not practicing according to the bible, then it is also false (though I admit, their belief make sense to me, but what make sense to me doesn't mean it is the truth).

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by 123glory
I'm not one of his disciples, obviously, but the only thing we are told is that ALL New Testament believers (even a new Christian) is "greater" than John the Baptist and that he was the "greatest" of the pre N.T. prophets. But nothing is ever stated about the two witnesses being the greatest of all. I think Ron has some ego issues if you ask me. lol

Again, where can I find that the bible says that "all new testament believers is 'greater' than John the Baptist"? Why are we "greater" than John teh Baptist? Yes, I am a new Christian but I am just another Christian like all other Christians. Would never think I am "greater" than any other Christian then or now. I just don't see why I can be better than John the Baptist. Mind to explain? Thanks! I only remember that Bible prohibits pride and boasting, of course, unless bible really said so.

[edit on 30-1-2008 by 123glory]

Originally posted by 123glory
It still does not say Eliah is one of the final witnesses.

No, it never tells us one of the two witnesses will specifically be Elijah. We are not told the exact identity of either of them. People simply speculate based on the information given. They could be Old Testament Biblical prophets or two entirely new people. We don't know yet.

Also, I checked the site you gave me, and found under their "about us" they claims that they do not believe in any Church and they believe in the rapture, which is not in the bible. What is your take on that?

The owner of the site (Jack Kelly) is nondenominational like me. That is what he means by not being any church. He goes by the Bible only and is not a part of any "sect."

As to the rapture: the Bible most definitely teaches a rapture. The point of argument comes to whether or not it is a pretribulation rapture. I personally believe in a pretribulation rapture. There are enough hints of a pretribulation rapture but I do not teach it dogmatically because it is not explicitly stated in black and white "the rapture will happen prior to the tribulation." There are many, many reasons (about 50 references) that possibly allude to a pretribulation rapture, though.

One is when the church of Philadelphia (representing the true Christians) is promised to be spared from "the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole earth." That is a direct reference to the tribulation. Also Paul's comfort to those who believed they miss the rapture and were now in the tribulation. He says the tribulation cannot begin until the Antichrist appears (and this obviously did not happen in their day) and that he will not surface until the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way. We are told the Holy Spirit indwells all church age believers (a guarantee not given to tribulation saints) so many believe when it goes, we go. Then the analogies of Lot and Enoch who were both removed prior to judgement. The references go on and on including by a few early church fathers. Again, it's not black and white, though so I hold my tongue.

"That the only true church is that invisible body of believers from all walks of life and every denomination and faith who have trusted Him and only Him for their redemption."

What he is talking about is all the New Testament references to the body of Christ as a spiritual church and bride. Not a specific church sect or building. All true believers are "all" part of one body of Christ regardless of the denomination we claim. This is mentioned dozens of times in the N.T. Yes, there are numerous physical churches but we are all one body in Christ's eyes (as in those that truly love Him).

[edit on 1/31/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by 123glory
Again, where can I find that the bible says that "all new testament believers is 'greater' than John the Baptist"? Why are we "greater" than John teh Baptist? Yes, I am a new Christian but I am just another Christian like all other Christians. Would never think I am "greater" than any other Christian then or now. I just don't see why I can be better than John the Baptist. Mind to explain? Thanks! I only remember that Bible prohibits pride and boasting, of course, unless bible really said so.

"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist. Yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." -Matthew 11:11

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." - Mark 13:32
Examine

Know the signs However:

1 - False prophets and false messiah
2 - Wars and rumors of wars
3 - Famines and earthquakes
4 - Persecution of the followers of Christ
5 - Gentile armies surrounding Jerusalem
6 - The temple's destruction

Here are some of Herbert W. Armstrong's Predictions:

A prophecy about Mussolini:
"Undoubtedly, then, the "Beast" who will capture half the city of Jerusalem, fighting at Armageddon against Christ at his Second Coming, is MUSSOLINI, with ten European Dictators, and their armies! It is coming in This Generation!"
Herbert W. Armstrong, The Plain Truth, January 1939, p. 4

A prophecy about Hitler:
"And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against - against whom? Not Britain and America! Not Israel - against Him that sat on the horse and His army (Rev. 19:19.) It is Christ and the Angels that Hitler will fight."
Herbert W. Armstrong, The Plain Truth, March/April 1943, p. 6

A prophecy about the second coming of Christ and the destruction of the United States:
"Jeremiah's prophecy is more specific. It is the beginning of the national trouble to come on America, the British nations, and the democracies of north-western Europe! And, as both Jeremiah and Jesus were inspired to record - and also the prophet Daniel - it will be the most catastrophic time of national trouble that has ever struck any nation or ever will! Here is exactly how catastrophic it will be: one third of our entire population will die in the famine and disease epidemic!"
Herbert W. Armstrong, 1975 In Prophecy, p. 11

"But all these things, as Jesus explained, are to be only the beginning of our time of national trouble. "Once we are weakened by starvation, disease and the resulting calamitous economic depression, the Ten-Nation European Colossus will suddenly strike with hydrogen bombs that shall destroy our cities and our centers of industrial and military production!"
Herbert W. Armstrong, 1975 In Prophecy, p. 13

Ronald Weinland has the same deceptive spirit that Herbert W. Armstrong had and, like Herbert W. Armstrong, Weinland's prophecies will fall to the ground.

Anything is poosible, but truely you can't believe a man that is one, a member of the church, and two advertising himself as a prophet. Even if you are religious I think you can agree Jesus didn't walk door to door advertising himself as the son of God and then try to sell you rosery beads for a small "donation". Anyone important to this prophecy will more then likely be either Atheist or just a free spirit so that they are untainted by the morals of men aka religion.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by Lokey13]

I have been a lurker for awhile and this is my first post here and I was uncertain about where to post it so I just decided for now to put it here, its not my intention to sidetrack the topic at all but I felt this was important at least to me.
I just woke up with a livid almost real vision like dream of being near mountains like where I live now in Alaska but there were nuclear bombs going off in the far distance, I had a visual cue that reminded me of a city in the background that lI thought was Reno, NV but I told a friend in my dream to meet me at Disneyland.

Since I had no before the night event of watching any movie or reading anything about Disney I thought that this could be something of a prediction, I have had a lot of these visions in my past but I rarely talk about them because they almost always happen. I'll go back to lurk mode now.

Hey all. I came across this thread the other day and I've been reading thru it. I've gotten a real kick out of it! Thanks.
Some others were talking about the 2 witnesses having more power than all the other previous prophets. To me, Rev. 11:6 DOES seem to say this. They can call down these plagues as often as they want. I don't believe that any other prophets were given that option. I think all the previous prophets were told what to say and when to say it by God. That being the case, God must trust these 2 end time witnesses very much.

Wow jdposey, thanks for all those points about armstrong. Let me try to find that book and see if he really predicted those things. Well, if Mr. Armstrong have predicted those things about Hitler and Mousillini (sp?) which did not come to pass, he isn't prophet/Eliah. It looks, rather, that he thought wwII was the last war of mankind and that retribution was to come at that time. But then his predictions did not come to pass so he was not prophet Eliah.

So, if Mr. Armstrong is not a prophet, then RW, who followed and proclaimed Armstrong to be end-time Eliah is also not from God... If his predictions come true, he'll just be another good psychic.

Pride and boasting is a very big sin according to bible so when RW proclaim himself to be "most powerful" even more than Moses, I knew something was not right...

First - If anyone has listened to the interviews, it will tell you that Herbert Armstrong was an Apostle NOT a prophet. He was to set the way for the coming as Joseph did before Christ was born. So, therefore, any predictions he made were interpreted by him but not understood. He was given information which he misunderstood. I can't remember what specific interview, but that was mentioned and RW said "he misunderstood things that were given to him because he was an apostle (a teacher) not a prophet".

Second - The final 3 1/2 years of tribulation begins in April. At that point the 2nd end time witness will come on the scene but RW is the spokesman for them.

Third - He is well aware that 3 days before Christ's return he and the other witness will be lying dead on the streets of Jerusalum for all to see and those 2 will be ressurected to join the 144,000 army of Christ.

Now, for the rest:

Daniel
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end.


God clearly told Daniel that what he had Daniel and John write that it was sealed "until" the end of the age. This means that in the end of the age (or the time of the end) these words would then be revealed. This has been revealed in the books, on the site, through the sermons.

Try going to any other church or website or resource that is going to give you specifics as to what is to come. 2008 God's Final Witness is a revelation of the book of Revelations.

I am not here to convice anyone of anything. The fact that I have learned the truth gave me the strength to share the truth. What you do with the truth from this point on is up to you. The books clearly stated that there will be most that "wait and see" and there will be few who turn to God. But those who wait and see and then see what has happened will then know who to turn to for more truth.

And for every person to ever call themselves a prophet, they continue to prophesize claiming they didn't understand. But RW says that if he is wrong he will admit and be done.

Also, for any one person claiming to be a prophet (whether true or not) there are thousands out to discredit and disprove. What you choose to believe will be known in your heart. And only ones who are "called out" by God will be those who understand.

JDPOSEY, I checked on your sources and you are correct. Mr. Armstrong not ony prophesized the wrongly, he also contradicted himself. For anyone who wants reference, here are the two pages of "The Plain truth" magazine written by Mr. Armstrong where he claimed first Moussinni (sp?) as the beast, then afterwards, he then claimed Hitler the beast. So who was the beast? Mr. Armstrong claimed both of these beasts will fight with Christ in "This generation" (referring to Mr. Armstrong generation).

1. The Plain truth 1939 january(Armstrong claims Moussilini the beast)

2. The Plain truth - march/april 1943 ( Armstrong claimed Hitler as the Beast)

And upon my search for Armstrong works, I found an article about Armstrong's Church of God (www.rapidnet.com...)

From this article, I gather that Mr. Armstrong is a successful advertiser before becoming pastor (so, he knows well how to promote things and what the audience wants as well as what captures audience attention - which is the end time). And then, his magazine, "The Plain Truth" was very successful in its golden time which in turn helped his church become very popular with about 200,000 members from 100 countries. But unfortunately, his predictions did not come to pass and he lost his credentials. Furthermore, his Church underwent law suits of incorrect use of Church's money. Then, the church's underwent doctrinal changes to try to adapt to the mainstream Christianity. due to these many disappointments, pastors went away from the church and membership decreased and over time, its membership now is only a fraction of what it used to be on its golden days.

Well, that is what I gathered from that article written by an ex pastor of the church. This is not what I write but his words. Note that I do not have prejudice against anyone. My sole purpose is to find out the TRUTH. And now, I am done with this thread. Armstrong is not God-sent and neither is RW, who is Armstrong disciple. Like I said, even if RW predictions come true, he can just be seen as a good psychic. Like I said before, there are quite a few good psychics who can predict things up to 90% accuracy but it doesn't mean they are God sent prophet.

Also note how Armstrong also predicted that the end time would come in his generation. How he also reference the bible with his claims just like RW does. And Mr. Armstrong is very confident with his predictions just like RW. There are many similarities between Armstrong and RW. Both are very skilled with psychology and with words.

I feel this is very bad that so many false prophets out there that when the real one comes, it'd be very hard for us to accept him. Pray for the truth is all I can do.

Peace out to all of you. This is probably my last post on this topic as I have already concluded RW is not Prophet. I pray all of you will find the truth and not be misled. And like I said, I don't mean to fight as you can see I have never put down anyone. All I want is the truth - and with all evidences above, I now conclude RW is not prophet and that's all that matters to me.


[edit on 31-1-2008 by 123glory]

[edit on 31-1-2008 by 123glory]

reply to post by 123glory


Yes, all one has to do is make a comparison between Herbert W. Armstrong and Ronald Weinland to see that, as I stated in the closing of the previous post, Weinland has the same deceptive spirit working in him which Armstrong did. People can excuse or, at best, try to cover up Armstrong’s false prophecies by saying he was an Apostle and not a Prophet, but they can not erase the words he spoke in prophetic utterance which are now recorded for any serious researcher to find.

All anyone has to do, which I did, is take Weinland's book and write down the Seven Thunders as he has them listed in his book. They are laid out by headings. Once you have these thunders written down you will quickly see that the Seven Thunders are the very signs that Christ gave to his disciples when they questioned Him regarding his return. All Weinland has done is take those signs which Christ gave to his disciples and placed them in the category of the Seven Thunders of the book of Revelation. The Seven Thunders of Revelation have nothing to do with what Jesus spoke as signs regarding the end of the age and his return. All Weinland is doing is what countless men, including Herbert W. Armstrong have done over time, attempting to analyze our current world events, speculating, and fitting those events into scripture. Add to this the proud assumption of being one of the two end time witnesses and you have a GREAT blunder.

Unfortunately, even when these prophecies do fail, I wager that his disciples will continue to lift him up and praise him, even when God brings this man down through his own folly.

Originally posted by 123glory
Armstrong is not God-sent and neither is RW, who is Armstrong disciple. Like I said, even if RW predictions come true, he can just be seen as a good psychic.

WOW!!
I read Ron's book and listened to some interviews. He said that even after all these things happen there will be people who won't believe the two witnesses. I know that the bible says that too, but I always wondered how those people would justify it. Please understand 123 glory I'm not bad mouthing you or trying to put you down or anything. You've helped me to see something, thanks. Only since most everyone here is searching for truth do I throw this out there that maybe it will help someone else too.

Someone mentioned 2. february in this thread. Weinland also mentioned this. What do you think will happen tomorrow? Terror? Tsunami?

Feb 2nd is the sealing of the 144,000 of Christ's Army. In Daniel it says 1335 days from this date, Christ returns. That means April 17th is the day of the opening of the 7th Seal.

However keep in mind there was "a silence thru heaven for what seemed to be half an hour". So that length of time directly after the opening of the 7th seal is unknown.

Someone mentioned the thunders being told to the disciples and yet Rev. 10:4 "And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, 'Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down'".

Originally posted by theEnd2007
Someone mentioned 2. february in this thread. Weinland also mentioned this. What do you think will happen tomorrow? Terror? Tsunami?

I heard that it's church related more than world events related. Who knows, we'll have to wait an see.

reply to post by theEnd2007


I think feb 2 is when all the 144,000 are sealed. I dont think any big disaster happens on this date. I do believe its a turning point where things begin to escalate. Ive a feeling even more confidence will be lost in the stock market. One of the thunders is the increase of deaths of notable people and by judging the way Brittney Spears is behaving she could be one of them, just seen her on the news yesterday. What ever it is its gonna get worst this coming month.

Originally posted by Anticipation of Peace
Feb 2nd is the sealing of the 144,000 of Christ's Army. In Daniel it says 1335 days from this date, Christ returns. That means April 17th is the day of the opening of the 7th Seal.

However keep in mind there was "a silence thru heaven for what seemed to be half an hour". So that length of time directly after the opening of the 7th seal is unknown.

Someone mentioned the thunders being told to the disciples and yet Rev. 10:4 "And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, 'Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down'".

Oh my god! So that means April 17th is the date the United States gets attacked? My hair is standing up..Weinland said the attack on the US would signal the opening of the 7th seal...Do you think it will happen on the 17th?

[edit on 1-2-2008 by theEnd2007]

reply to post by theEnd2007


Yes, the seventh seal will be opened on April 17th. However, remember Rev 8:1 "When the Lamb had broken the seventh seal, there was silence throughout all heaven for what seemed like half an hour".

We are unsure of what God's actual half hour is. It could be a day, a week, a month, a year... we don't know that exact amount of time.