Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

Originally posted by Boondock78

it's gonna be a lot harder to figure that out seeing as that can't hear the dead guys side of the story...was the tazer working?

Sigh, I was hoping you wouldnt go as low as this...
A) Was the taser working correctly? Ie, did it malfunction and kill him? It takes a lot of amps to kill someone BTW.

maybe. maybe not...either way, had they not tazed him, he'd be alive or at the least, he would not have been murdered? correct...

Murder implies planning, come on...
We dont know if this was abuse, acidental or just plane idiocy.

why? cause you don't want to answer it? how about you u2u it to me cause i sure am curious

I'm not afraid to answer, I just dont think this is the right thread to discuss it on because people would think that I'm suggesting that this situation is a "need to kill situation".

as far as the how, i suppose we will have to settle for whatever they tell us when the autopsy comes out...as far as the when, well, after he was tazed and not administered cpr and when the medics were not called for 12 minutes....that is when he died

Oh really?
I didnt realise that you where there and where giving him first aid. Oh by the way....why would they put him in the recovery position if he wasnt alive?
Come on man, lets be realistic, we dont know the exact turn of events....and we dont know WHEN he died, I'm talking about how long after the tasering.

....he sure didn't die when litle miss lady was trying to talk and make with the sign language......that didn't kill him...seems she tried a lot harder to diffuse the situation in a calm manner than the bacon did.

Maybe if you didnt refer to them as "bacon" you'd be a little less biased....

hard to say? thats something else we will never know for real..how can we? the lady said she heard them talk about tazing him before they even got to him...at this point, they're gonna say what they're coached to say....i would bet it was an accident but it was an accident cause they #ed up, again....

No? Wow "The lady heard them...", suppose we should all take witness statements as law huh....wonder how many innocents would dead today if that where so...

You say "Again" like its venom, come on, are you seriously suggesting that cops shouldnt be allowed to screw up? Are you seriously wanting a 100% or nothing deal when it comes to thier actions?

i don't think every cop is bad but i think bout 8-9 out of 10 being bad seems about right....thats what my life has shown me so far...
as far as classing you a homosexual cause you're a sailor, uhh, no....you trying to bait me?

8-9 out of 10? Come on, are you serious?
I'm giving you an example, if I wanted to bait you I would.

i don't have any problems with sailors....my beef is with abusive, power hungry cops that set out to rock people....

Let me make a suggestion here....take it how you want it ok but let me just ask you one question: Have you had bad experiences with cops?

to the last part...no, i want 'just' punishment....who said rash and quick.

sure wasn't me?

Well then would you agree that we need to wait till the facts come in?

Originally posted by Cuhail

I watched the CNN video too. It was pointed out that if you listen to it closely, you hear the Tasing officer ASK "Permission to use the Taser?" BEFORE they even walked up to the man in the corridor. The Commander replied "Yes!" and then they confronted the man. He didn't "wave his arms about", he put his hand out, away from him with fingers spread and turned around. I didn't see an object in his hand. Then, an officer attempted to grab his one arm, which he pulled away. At that point he was Tazed. He scrunched up and fell to the floor. He was then pounced upon by the RCMP Mounties and a knee was place at the back of his neck, pinning his face to the floor.

Scared, isolated, tired, confronted, abused and dead. That's your timeline right there.

Sad.
Cuhail

Wow CNN , guess we should take them as the vanguards of truth and rightousness huh? Afterall they did report about the iraq war intel, and that was really useful wasnt it...

Come on people, lets be serious here...

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

reply to post by metro


to be honest, im not sure where i stand on tasering. I agree that some officers seem to be trigger happy when it comes to a tazer and I also believe that a taser can serve a purpose in subduing a person. The problem with a good ol takedown by 4 officers on 1 is that they result of injury is higher, for both the officer and the actor. Everyone is not on the same page when wrestling a person to the gound. If you stand back and taser someone, which happens daily "without incident" the risk for injury is smaller. Keep in mind, the media does not report on ALL incidents where a taser is involved, just the ugly ones.

The tazing didn't kill him, it was the *SNIP* pig who had his knee on the guys neck for a minute! I hope that *SNIP* pig rots for all of eternity in a very special corner of hell - like the one reserved for Hitler!

The facts... The fact is that the *SNIP* fascist PIGS didn't bother to assess the situation, didn't attempt to calm him, didn't attempt to subdue him without force, didn't attempt to revive him after they murdered him - in fact, the *SNIP* fascist puke PIGS did NOT serve or protect anyone!!!

I wonder is fascist jackboot PIG had enough of brain to figure that the guy was struggling because he was being murdered!?!?

There is ZERO excuse for this - ZERO!!!! In a sane and logical world this crap wouldn't be tolerated. The fascist puke PIG would've lost his job and would have probably been charged with using excessive force. Today there is no such thing as excessive force - killing people is simply all in the course of a day on the beat.

I HATE *SNIP* PIGS!!! The world would be better without these *SNIP* fascist jackboot pig thugs! I hate to say it, but I like the news stories that talk about PIGS getting jacked when trying to arrest some thug - I figure they had it coming from all the jacking they give to innocent people the rest of the time!

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 15/11/2007 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by kozmo


wow! you must have been overcome with joy on 9/11 and 7/7 with the amount of lives lost when these "facist jackboot PIGS" died trying to save people.

reply to post by devilwasp

Wow CNN , guess we should take them as the vanguards of truth and rightousness huh? Afterall they did report about the iraq war intel, and that was really useful wasnt it...

What? Are you serious here? CNN didn't MAKE the video, they BROADCASTED it. The witness took the video. I watched the witnesses video and that is what I saw.

CNN has nothing to do with it. I saw the video. I posted what I saw.

Puh-leese, argue the relevant.
Cuhail

Originally posted by dreb13
wow! you must have been overcome with joy on 9/11 and 7/7 with the amount of lives lost when these "facist jackboot PIGS" died trying to save people.

I seriously hope your not using an event like 7/7 to further your point....
If so....your actually sickening me...

Originally posted by Cuhail
What? Are you serious here? CNN didn't MAKE the video, they BROADCASTED it. The witness took the video. I watched the witnesses video and that is what I saw.

Yeah, I know who made it....thanks for reminding me of an obvious fact....
I was pointing out that CNN has spinned news before to get ratings but you know that...right?

CNN has nothing to do with it. I saw the video. I posted what I saw.

Puh-leese, argue the relevant.
Cuhail

Yeah you posted what you saw, the question is WHAT did you see? Your reaction to this question should be interesting.....Ie, are you actually going to examine this video and see what you can find or simply shout in my face...

One officer also knelt on him in the head/neck area when they were restraining him. That's often a sneaky little trick when you're not allowed to apply chokehold restraints. You use your knee to apply pressure to the carotid artery, keeping your hands free.

Originally posted by Boondock78
reply to post by devilwasp

 

they tazed him
no cpr
he's dead

what else to know

reply to post by devilwasp


I seriously hope you are not generalizing and stating that all cops are "jackboot facist PIGS."

If so....you're actually sickening me...


[edit on 15-11-2007 by dreb13]

Originally posted by davebgimp
One officer also knelt on him in the head/neck area when they were restraining him. That's often a sneaky little trick when you're not allowed to apply chokehold restraints. You use your knee to apply pressure to the carotid artery, keeping your hands free.

On the back of his neck? I have studied first aid...and thers no artery there, they're on either side of the airway and two more at the ears....

reply to post by kozmo

I HATE *SNIP* PIGS!!! The world would be better without these *SNIP* fascist jackboot pig thugs! I hate to say it, but I like the news stories that talk about PIGS getting jacked when trying to arrest some thug - I figure they had it coming from all the jacking they give to innocent people the rest of the time!

Im sorry, but your generalization of cops is completely wrong and your opinion of them is quite disgusting.

Not all cops are bad Just like not all parents are bad.

I would assume, based on your theory, since come parents abuse their children, that makes ALL parents BAD ?


Where is your "passion" and "hatred" over on the other threads talking about the sexual and physical abuse and death of children in this country? Seriously

[edit on 15-11-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Okay so i don't really have an opinion on the whole incident one way or another however if an everyday person performs an action and it has lethal result whether intended or not they can be charged with a crime
like involuntary Manslaughter

I believe that law enforcement should be held to the same standards you make a decision you should pay for the consequences.


also depending on where this man was coming from he could have had a major fear irrational even of figures of authority so in this situation in particular all things should have been handled with kid gloves


anyway just my nickels worth (2 cents doesn't buy what it used too)

Respectfully
GEO

reply to post by devilwasp


I saw and heard what I conveyed in my above post.
I understand CNN is a skewed source for what they convey and their stance on issues. I used CNN to watch a witnesses video. Unless you have a better video, it's what I've got to go by. Do you think that CNN edited the video? That's a possibility. I can't say. What I can say about the video I watched, I posted above.

I hope I cleared that up without giving you the impression I was yelling in your face. My capitalization in my first post was to emphasize my stance, not to yell. Sorry you took it that way.

Cuhail

Wow that is incredible. They made no attempt to put him in handcuffs. They then were the judge and jury, and gave him the death penalty. Every Mounty that was there should be jailed for murder. There is no excuse for their conduct.

Here is a question for you all. What is the penalty for tasering a cop? I bet they call it "attempted murder of a police officer" or at least "assault with a deadly weapon, with malicious wounding".

If anyone knows you should post it.

Here is the story as covered by the Canadian broadcasting Company.

Have a look and you'll be able to tell if it had been edited. As far as I know, the CBC is still not run by CNN.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with most of you so far.

Going simply on the video and my impression of what i saw therein I feel this was simply an unfortunate accident. Miscommunication and error in judgment on the part of the immigrant caused the situation to escalate.

Although I sympathize with the gentleman's situation, and I do realize that he was seriously frustrated I find that the police in fact DID act appropriately. He established himself as a danger from his past actions and disregarded the officers warnings...even if because of the language barrier had I been in a Polish Airport and began throwing around furniture...once the officers arrived I think I'd have known not to simply brush them off. He'd already did so to the security guards.

It doesn't matter how frustrated you are, you can't behave violently and destructively and lets be clear...thats exactly what he was doing. His behavior was violent and threatening and I'd worry for his wife and children if he had any and lost his temper. This is a public airport. If I were there I certainly would have felt he was a potential threat to me or my family's safety. He could have injured himself or others with the objects he proceeded to throw around the room.

It's why the people trying to interact with him KEPT DISTANCE. There were several attempts to communicate with the man and he seemed uninterested and more focused on destroying the environment.

The taser was NOT meant to kill this man. If they wanted him dead a bullet would have sufficed but clearly this was not their intent.

I've seen police video where officers have used excessive force, threatened citizens, and I've read cases where officers did go overboard with taser usage but in this case I think it was warranted.

Take Amadou Diallo's case for example. He merely attempted to show his I.D. to the officers questioning him and showered with 41 bullets. THAT is excessive force and not the fault of the immigrant in question.

Ideally it would have been wonderful if his mother had been there immediately upon his arrival. Knowing the man spoke no English and was coming to a foreign land I would expect her to be waiting for him as the doors open.

I'll wait till all the facts are in be so far I feel the cops were justified in their behavior.

- Lee

reply to post by devilwasp

Originally posted by devilwasp
Look show me what your on about and I'll try to understand what you are on about!?

Fair enough..

Note: All words in bold in the following quotes are by my emphasis.

Police have said repeatedly that there were only three RCMP officers involved in the incident, but the video shows four men in RCMP uniforms.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

So was it three cops present, as the cops officially insist, or the four that we can actually see on the video?

About 25 seconds after police enter the secure area where he is, there is a loud crack that sounds like a Taser shot, followed by Dziekanski screaming and convulsing as he stumbles and falls to the floor.

Another loud crack can be heard as an officer appears to fire one more Taser shot into Dziekanski.

As the officers kneel on top of Dziekanski and handcuff him, he continues to scream and convulse on the floor.

One officer is heard to say, "Hit him again. Hit him again," and there is another loud cracking sound.

Police have said only two Taser shots were fired, but a witness said she heard up to four Taser shots.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

So is it only the two cracks, as the cops insist, four as the witness described, or the three "loud cracks" that we can hear on the video?

Allow me to point out the third shot occurs as they're kneeling on him and putting him in handcuffs!

Is this standard police policy?!

Paul Pritchard shot the video with his digital camera, but afterward he surrendered it to police for their investigation on a promise that they would return it within 48 hours.
The next day, police told Pritchard they would not be returning the recording as promised.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

48 hours was not enough time to examine the video and interview witnesses, apparently, so they held onto it for a month, not releasing it back to it's rightful owner until threatened with legal action.

RCMP officers have also said police did not use pepper spray because of the large number of people at the airport at the time. But the video shows Dziekanski standing alone with the four officers in an otherwise empty area, which is separated from the public area by a thick glass wall.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

And these are just the lies we've been made aware of by independent sources, and/or can actually observe on the video.

RCMP spokesman Cpl. Dale Carr said no one can judge what happened to Dziekanski by just watching the video.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

Well, we can judge what we can see and hear on the video, as opposed to what the cops say happened, no?

"It's just one piece of evidence, one person's view. There are many people that we have spoken to," RCMP spokesman Cpl. Dale Carr said at a press conference Wednesday afternoon.
"What I urge is that those watching the video, take note of that. Put what they've seen aside for the time being. And wait to hear the totality of the evidence at the time of the inquest," Carr said.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

Now that the video's been released, the whole world can view this "one person's view," and determine for themselves whether they can see what the cops say we should see.

And as far as the inquest goes, I think we'll be better off waiting for the totality of all four investigations is complete, before trusting the word of the cops on this one:

The RCMP's integrated homicide investigation team, the B.C. coroner's service, the Vancouver International Airport Authority and the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP are each conducting their own investigations into the incident.

Source | CBCNews.ca | Taser video shows RCMP shocked immigrant within 25 seconds of their arrival

devilwasp, I think I understand where you're coming from, and I hope this will help you understand what I'm "on about."

I said nothing about the back of the neck. In fact it's not clearly visible in the video that I can see, but the man who filmed it (from the CNN interview with him) mentioned he was concerned that they were kneeling on his neck. I'm aware of the location of major arteries, thanks.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by davebgimp
One officer also knelt on him in the head/neck area when they were restraining him. That's often a sneaky little trick when you're not allowed to apply chokehold restraints. You use your knee to apply pressure to the carotid artery, keeping your hands free.

On the back of his neck? I have studied first aid...and thers no artery there, they're on either side of the airway and two more at the ears....

Originally posted by Cuhail
I saw and heard what I conveyed in my above post.
I understand CNN is a skewed source for what they convey and their stance on issues. I used CNN to watch a witnesses video. Unless you have a better video, it's what I've got to go by. Do you think that CNN edited the video? That's a possibility. I can't say. What I can say about the video I watched, I posted above.

Well maybe you should take into acount this one thing....you dont know all the facts. Before judgement wait for the facts....thats my only suggestion.

Originally posted by dreb13


A taser is classified as "non lethal force"

A gun is classified as "lethal force"

To clarify, if they intended to kill him, as you suggest, they would have used "lethal force" and shot him. they chose not to kill him and used "non lethal force". it is not known at this time what the exact cause of death was.

thats fine and all but is you do 'something' to someone and they die, then it was lethal force, so, thats whats they used...like i said