New Law Could Make Gay Jokes Illegal

reply to post by Boondock78


None of you were implying that. My intent was to steer attention back to what the title of the post is about. That its actually about prohibiting-speech, which I think is outrageous.

I read all of your posts here and I tend to agree with you that each individual is fully responsible for his REACTIONS.

reply to post by Skyfloating


oh.
lets carry on then

To expand on your point:


someone can call me all the insults he wants. Thats his problem. HIS stomach will ache from it.

It only becomes my problem when I actually take it seriously, take it personally. Only I decide HOW I am going to take it.

Again, actions is fine. But policing speech is only one step removed from policing thoughts. I wish the apologists of this type of law would notice.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
To expand on your point:


someone can call me all the insults he wants. Thats his problem. HIS stomach will ache from it.

It only becomes my problem when I actually take it seriously, take it personally. Only I decide HOW I am going to take it.

Again, actions is fine. But policing speech is only one step removed from policing thoughts. I wish the apologists of this type of law would notice.

i agree too. i personally don't take offense to much but if someone made some colorful comment about my wife, there would be a problem and they probably wouldn't know till it was already over....

am i a hypocrite? maybe...

but, i don't go around making comments about peoples wives. thats not what i am talking about...
i am on the same page as you though

reply to post by Skyfloating


Sorry, but it's not.

I'm not an apologist and I do believe in freedom of speech, but not when that speech becomes abusive or targets specific groups with the intention of further marginalising them - especially using "humour" which is one of the most destructive forms of bullying, and that's what it is, pure and simple.

Do you also think it's ok to tell "jokes" (which is really only making fun of) about disabled people? or people of different ethnicity? perhaps you think a good visual gag would be to kick a blind mans stick away?
It's only a matter of degree.

Originally posted by budski
Do you also think it's ok to tell "jokes" (which is really only making fun of) about disabled people? or people of different ethnicity? perhaps you think a good visual gag would be to kick a blind mans stick away?
It's only a matter of degree.

I love black humor and cruel jokes at the expense of others. But I have never intentionally harmed anyone nor do I intend to. Those who bully up on someone with extremely offensive speech will soon resort to action, meaning hitting the guy. And thats exactly the moment its time to call the police. When I crack a joke, are you gonna call the police?

Originally posted by budski


especially using "humour" which is one of the most destructive forms of bullying, and that's what it is, pure and simple.

Do you also think it's ok to tell "jokes" (which is really only making fun of) about disabled people? or people of different ethnicity? perhaps you think a good visual gag would be to kick a blind mans stick away?
It's only a matter of degree.

humor is bullying? meh, whatever

do i think it is ok to tell jokes about disabled people?
yup..do it all the time....different ethnicity? yup. do it all the time.

kicking a stick from a blind man....nope. and if i saw it i would whip some ass. if it is a degree it is a degree that i don't cross.
all pretty simple

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I love black humor and cruel jokes at the expense of others. But I have never intentionally harmed anyone nor do I intend to.


That's the whole point - this is bullying, whether you intend to hurt or not.

It is how the person the joke is aimed at perceives it and how it affects them, especially when it is aimed at an already marginalised group, with the intent of further marginalising them merely because they are different to you.

Originally posted by Griff
Yes, because it's ALWAYS the FAG's fault when they are harrassed. Give me a freakin break.

If you get harrassed it is because you have let your FEAR of being harassed manifest itself.

One's FEAR is only founded in their own inner feelings of GUILT, the feared manifestation is karma playing itself out.

I am,

Sri Oracle

reply to post by budski


While certain jokes and slurs may not be MORALLY right, they are (and should remain) LEGALLY right.


To even propose that ANY form of speech be limited because it hurts someone's feelings is doing nothing but opening up the flood gate for ANY speech to be censored.

There is no such thing, in a situation such as this, as having your cake and eating it too.


Jasn

reply to post by budski


I would argue that a certain number of gays have taken in upon themselves in the past to marginalize themselves (and other gays by proxy) through their constant thrusting of their lifestyle onto the world via gay pride parades and such.

While you may disagree with this, I certainly see this "events" as nothing but calling unnecessary attention to ones self or "group".

I can't help but wonder if these "events" aren't responsible for a certain amount of "gay bashing". Also, isn't making such a strong attempt to single yourselves and your group out a way of marginalization?

Originally posted by airtrax007
another new law for the mentally disabled(homo's)--Fear of being called a BAD WORD is childish. If you cannot deal with being the butt of a few jokes then stay in the closet.

If this becomes a law then there will be a new law to prevent the gay's from calling the straight people names ---soon it will be a very quiet society...

True. I doubt this would ever really come about in the states, many will ignore it even if it did eventually become law. What a waste of time & money.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by mousmonke]

Originally posted by budski

It's only a matter of degree.

There's the rub, and although you typed that I don't think you really understand the implications of what you wrote. The problem with these kinds of "thought police" laws is that they create what's known as a "slippery slope". Once you start down this slope, you are opening the door to censorship a word or a thought at a time. Sure, it's words you personally (but not everyone) are OK with censoring now. But what happens when they start censoring words you're OK with, but someone else doesn't like?

Homosexuality was decriminalised in England & Wales in 1967, Scotland in 1980, Northern Ireland in 1982 & in the Republic of Ireland only in 1993. Up until those dates the punishment for these "criminal acts" could've included imprisonment.

And even after decriminalisation guys could only have sex with other guys if both were over the age of 21 ... 16 for heterosexuals, 21 for homosexuals ... no discrimination there then ... the age of consent anomaly was only fully corrected in the UK in 2000 ... and only after the House of Commons stuck two fingers up to the House of Lords and forced the legislation through under the Parliament Act.

That's only seven years ago.

And in those seven years we in the UK have had legislation introduced which permits same sex partnerships, which prohibits discrimination in the provision of goods and services on the grounds of sexual orientation and now this proposed legislation which creates an offence of incitement to hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation - and as pointed out umpteen times it has a big fat ZERO to do with the casual joke.

Can any of you honestly say any of those legislative changes would have happened had it not been for pressure from gay rights groups and those who participate at Pride ? I don't think you can be certain of that. So don't be so quick to dismiss those people for their campaigning efforts.

Some of you are under the impression that's it's so easy being gay. For some no doubt it is & that's in no small measure thanks to those who've campaigned in the past and who campaign still even today. They're the ones you deride so easily. But if you've ever immersed yourself in gay culture, as most of you haven't, you'd find a whole hidden culture of men who have sex with other men ... and who aren't out. Many are single. Many indeed are "married with children". Some are bisexual. But some are gay and just leading a double life. You've got to ask yourselves why.

And this is purely anecdotal but I'd reckon it's at least a 1:1 ratio of in/out. So for every gay guy you're friendly with there's another who for some reason lacks the confidence or is unwilling to come out. There can be any number of explanations for that. Family pressure, peer pressure ... being out with a group of friends on a Saturday night and slagging off the first gay guy you come across ... even though you know in your heart that you're gay too (and I've seen that one happen ... I was that gay basher too in my adolescence).

But one of the main reasons is that, for some and even today, homosexuality is still seen as being wrong. That negativity sometimes manifests itself as an irrational hatred of gay people, from Fred Phelps and his church which calls dead soldiers "fags", to gay men being beaten up as they leave nightclubs and to teenage boys murdering a gay man in a public park for no other reason than he was gay ... teenage boys who were sentenced only today ... not 30 years ago ... today ... in a Western European country in the first decade of the 21st Century.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I know some of you have this thing in your heads about losing freedom of speech should this legislation be enacted, that perhaps it's some kind of slippery slope towards, I dunno, a police state or some such malarkey. It isn't. If you want a slippery slope to a police state, go examine biometric ID cards, RFID's, CCTV cameras and all the rest. This proposed legislation will merely - I say merely but it's helluva important - extend further protection to the gay community. Because they damn well need it. And that's because some people still haven't a clue about the levels of prejudice and intolerance shown to gays day in day out.

Most of you - only most of you (because some have been Modded) also seem to accept that freedom of speech here on ATS has some very clearly defined limits. No offence to the three amigos, but ATS is just an online community. For most it's not real life.

But as you accept the terms and conditions here shouldn't you also accept that in public - real life - you just cannot let rip at every gay man - or anyone - who happens to cross your path ? And that if you do exercise your "freedom of speech" in such a way you have to expect the consequences ?

What exactly is so unreasonable about that ?

I'm sorry if it has seemed as if I've been pissing against the wind in this thread, or that I'm being a bit tight arsed or whatever. I'm not a campaigner for gay rights - or any other kind of right for that matter. Apart from my right to smoke in public, of course. And I no more think about my sexuality than anyone else thinks of theirs. Paying bills & the misery that is work are my priorities. But I honestly think this legislation is badly needed and I only hope some of you can now see the other side of the coin.

Whether you accept it of course it entirely up to you.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
This is gay.

political correctness gone wrong...

Couldn't have said it better myself bravo!

Once this law is passed they'll use it as a precedent that "you should never say anything that could be offensive to anyone" and right there the government now has the right to say what is and isn't allowed to be said. Along with this and that article about Donald Kerr.. I really don't know what's going on in this world anymore.

reply to post by Niall197


In the area where I live, it is indeed just as easy to be gay as straight.

Then again, they have never had any mass gay pride parades or anything of that nature.

They are gay, they have pretty much taken over the bar scenes here, with the exception of the midtown bars, and nobody cares.

Plenty of straight guys and girls go to the "gay" bars and intermingle with them just fine.

However, if they were to stage some huge gay pride parade tomorrow, I am willing to bet at least one of my testicles that everything around here (meaning the attitudes toward gay people) would change virtually overnight.

There are actually a TON of us out here who live by the philosophy of live and let live. However, we get a bit irked when ANY group demands that they not be singled out and then they turn around and single themselves out by thrusting themselves into the public eye.

It's a double standard and, frankly, it's a stupid idea.


Jasn

Originally posted by SimiusDei
reply to post by Niall197

 

In the area where I live, it is indeed just as easy to be gay as straight

Not really.

Not if you can't walk down the main street for an hour or two every year without the entire town turning against you. Might as well bring out the fiery torches and burn the witches while you're at it.

Out of sight, out of mind, huh ? Don't like the message ? Or is it the thrusting messengers you've such a dislike for ... mm.

End of the day if you don't like the message or the messengers, um, don't go. No-one's holding a gun to your head.

reply to post by Griff


"Whomever said I was on "moral" high ground? I have as much right to call you Neanderthal as you do me FAG. Gottit yet? "
So are you saying I have the right to call you a FAG because you call me a Neanderthal?
Yes I thing homosexual use the term straight as a slur, it makes them sound more open minded than other who do not live by there standers.
Just so you do "get it" I in no way think name calling by anyone is right or justifiable. All my post were jovial, all in good fun, yet this anger came at me from some of the post, in the form of name calling, no ware do I say anything that is harmful or insulting, yet it is appears I have been judge based on my sexual choice. And yes I find this a bit funny the roles so easily turned that the hetero is being bashed by the homo, so once a law takes effect that limits our free speech beyond what we have in place which covers hate speech, any one can be the victim of a joke gone bad. The only humor left would be what you would tell a two year old. I find that very boring. It is happening here in the U.S. I once said I divorce my wife cause I was tired of dragging the bag around, during a bag dragging test and a woman told me I could not tell that joke it was offensive to women. Another woman came back with she divorce her husband to get rid of the lumpy sofa, when I told her about the previous incident. It’s as a poster said it says more about the person who reacts that the person who tells the joke.

reply to post by budski


No its not.

Its in the DEFINITION of the word joke. Joke already means its not serious, not real, of no consequence. Thats something entirely different than bullying.

But sadly a lot of people will agree with you and help bring about the thought-police-state.

reply to post by budski


Happiness is not found by controlling others thought and speech, but by staying upright yourself in the eye of the storm.