Originally posted by Johnmike
We already have laws against harassment, we sort of established this several times in this thread. You don't have to ban speech to protect someone from that.

Well, the protection for this kid was as porous as the Niners O-line. It's not working. It starts with thought, turns to action, be it overt or words. Yes WORDS are also actions.

And once again, the law in question is mis-quoted.

It's about doing something about hate crimes, which is exactly what happened to the Ajax boy - he was ruthlessly bullied because of who he is.

It's NOT (again) about banning jokes, words or satin trousers or whatever else the "freedom at any cost" brigade would have us believe.

If a law like this prevents just ONE death, then it's worth it.

I just love to hear some of the US members rattle on about "freedom" in what is one of the most oppressive regimes in the western world.

Let me say again - freedom is an illusion that people use to excuse their own bad, anti-social behaviour.

Originally posted by apc
If it were my kid I would be pretty pissed off. Nothing wrong with that. Completely natural for these parents to be quite discontent over a dead kid.

I probably would want to beat the piss out of whoever bullied my kid too. Can't blame anyone for that.

None of which would bring your kid back. Wouldn't a proactive approach be better than a reactive one?

I still wouldn't be wrong.

THAT is up for debate.

It certainly would be a better approach.

I recall growing up singing, "Sticks and stones..."

If some kid offs himself over words, someone screwed up. Either the parents or God, but something got skipped somewhere along the assembly line.

Originally posted by apc
If some kid offs himself over words, someone screwed up. Either the parents or God, but something got skipped somewhere along the assembly line.

See, this takes accountability out of ones own actions though. If it was one of my kids that were harassing that kid, they would be in for a world of hurt. THEY would be accountable for their actions(words).

We have a fundamental difference in perspective.

I do not consider the spoken or written word to be on the same level of interaction as physical force.

Originally posted by apc
We have a fundamental difference in perspective.

I do not consider the spoken or written word to be on the same level of interaction as physical force.

Actually some words can cut worse than a fist. An example. You know me, I'm difficult to piss off. I pretty much am like, "M'eh, whatever." But another member got to me a few years ago. Just words on a screen but if I had been around this person it would have been violent. I'll u2u the example if you like.

[edit on 22-11-2007 by intrepid]

Originally posted by budski
freedom is an illusion that people use to excuse their own bad, anti-social behaviour.

I really start to get scared when people make such authoritarian remarks.

Violent urges in response to an act of disrespect or dishonor is also completely normal and natural. Actually rather primitive. We are just a bunch of apes, after all.

Reason, such as saying "Meh, whatever," is what allows us to be different. That and walking on two legs.

When reason breaks down for someone, it's noone's fault but their own.

Or drugs... idiocy... genetics... I mean gotta have someone to blame, right?

Originally posted by apc
I do not consider the spoken or written word to be on the same level of interaction as physical force.

Well while I don't support banning jokes and whatnot, I do believe that harassment is an infringement on your rights. That sort of repeated "bullying" is dangerous and can become a means of coercion.

And you think the law should protect our buttons?

I'm sorry sir, but it's my button and I'll let them push it if I want to.

During a persons lifetime, all manner of people will piss that person off.

The difference here, is organised, targetted, bullying.

I've said it before - if you go to see a comedian that is known for his outlandish views, don't complain - it does exactly what it says on the tin.

But in normal, everyday circumstances, why should a person have to be subjugated and disparaged, "just because somebody wants to have a laugh at their expense"
And it doesn't stop there - it always goes further: the pack hunt mentality - they won't rest until the "kill" has been made.
Whether that "kill" is driving a person away, belittling them or driving them to suicide - the intent has remained the same - "STONE THE WITCH"

Well, sorry, but that is wrong

[edit on 22/11/2007 by budski]