YF-23 Black Widow ( Western Museum of Flight )

Nah, looks more like test equipment left over from the flight comp. They try to blend the stuff in as best as they can so it does not hurt aerodynamics.

I will see if I have a picture of a similar mod on a test Raptor

Originally posted by Zaphod58

Originally posted by dead steve
Here is a silly question.

What is stopping some one from grabbing a chunk of Ram coating and mailing it to some other country?

Dead Steve

Even if they did, from what I've heard, it's almost impossible to reverse engineer it. That was one of the things brought up with the F-117 that was shot down. They can see what it does, but it's incredibly difficult if not impossible to reverse engineer. One of the nasty things about RAM, at least the early stuff, was that if you had a relatively minor problem, like an engine fire (and I mean minor in the sense that most planes turn off the engine, fire goes out), in the F-117 the RAM would catch fire, and once that went up, you weren't getting it out short of landing and having specialized fire fighting equipment used on it.

THANK YOU

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
The YF-23(Never designated F-23) and YF-22 were exclusively part of the ATF competition between Northrop and Lockheed Martin. The YF-22 won out for many reasons, the YF-22 was the better "Master of none" aircraft, meaning all around it was the better choice, due to political, economical, and also the performance of the craft.
Shattered OUT...

ShatteredSkies,

Sorry, but I think you picked up the Political Disinformation! What you just summed up was the "Official Reason" why the F-22 won. I rank this story right up there with the old "There is NO Area 51" BS the government threw at people. Preformance had Nothing to do with it. The YF-23 was Nearly equal in agility to the YF-22( which only had a slight edge at high-alpha in the post stall range). The YF-23 was also Faster, Steathier,had a higher ceiling, higher payload and better range.

As for economic, the F-22 was cheeper them the F-23, but then again the F-15 is cheeper then the F-22. What's your point?

My instincts tell me that Someone got PAID OFF to take the F-22 over the F-23. Politics was the deciding factor. I think it's strange that General Dynamics (who was on the F-22 team) got accused of fraud on another contract around the time the F-22 won. A-12 anyone?

Tim

Its a shame to see the airframe rot in the museum, It should be kept in Edwards AFB or Groom Lake where it will be greatly looked after.

I hope the YF-23 will be revived and enter mass production.

Would any foreign nation be allowed to buy/revive the YF-23 Project?

Browno,

I agree with you! The YF-23 deserves better than collecting dust at a museum. Like you, I would love to see an operational version fly. However, realistically, I don't see it happening. The plane has too many secrets and is too advanced to sell to another country. I don't care how many times they tell me the F-22 was better, I stick their "reasons" in the disinformation file, right between the "there is no Area 51" stories and the "Weather Balloon" that crashed at Roswell. After all, it just another LIE from the Defense Department!

The YF-23 vs. YF-22 is yet another example of politics winning over technical merits. If you know the right people, you can sell the government anything.

Tim

Or howabout the BAE Facility at the Mojave Airport in California? They have WW2, Korean War, Vietnam Era and Cold war aircraft and are used for flight testing.

Maybe Davis Monthan AFB/Edwards AFB/Groom lake should still keep the two instead of them rusting around in some museum.

I also heard the Pentagon still want both YF-23 if they ever need them so are they only on loan?

Link

If so, It must mean there may be a chance for them to be revived later on?

[Mod Edit - Link formatting ]

[edit on 24/3/06 by JAK]

I am sorry to raise this post again, I won't only post some requests in new thread, so I here ask some who have cutaway of YF-23, if you are willing to help me, please scan it as bigger as possible to my malbox: [email protected] Here is so grateful to you.

This is How it Looks now. pilot seat have been removed ,one of the most advanced engines is tied to some matress ,you can also see the thurst vectoring nozzles of it ,paints have faded ,and you can hardly see the emblem of united states ,sad to see it in such a sorry state

The YF-23 wasn't equipped with thrust vectoring, so the nozzles aren't on there.

Shattered OUT...

That picture says C. 2004, so I assume it's from 2004? And the YF-23 used F-119 engines without the TVC right. They never did develop the F-120 for the test model.

hmm that's why I believed it didn't win, because of lack of thrust vectoring.

Originally posted by ghost

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
The YF-23(Never designated F-23) and YF-22 were exclusively part of the ATF competition between Northrop and Lockheed Martin. The YF-22 won out for many reasons, the YF-22 was the better "Master of none" aircraft, meaning all around it was the better choice, due to political, economical, and also the performance of the craft.
Shattered OUT...

ShatteredSkies,

Sorry, but I think you picked up the Political Disinformation! What you just summed up was the "Official Reason" why the F-22 won. I rank this story right up there with the old "There is NO Area 51" BS the government threw at people. Preformance had Nothing to do with it. The YF-23 was Nearly equal in agility to the YF-22( which only had a slight edge at high-alpha in the post stall range). The YF-23 was also Faster, Steathier,had a higher ceiling, higher payload and better range.

As for economic, the F-22 was cheeper them the F-23, but then again the F-15 is cheeper then the F-22. What's your point?

My instincts tell me that Someone got PAID OFF to take the F-22 over the F-23. Politics was the deciding factor. I think it's strange that General Dynamics (who was on the F-22 team) got accused of fraud on another contract around the time the F-22 won. A-12 anyone?

Tim

I am pretty sure you were not privy to the test result and ranking system for the criteria for the aircraft selection, same with aircraft performance and radar cross section data.

I have seen postings on different boards by USAF pilots who are in the know, and there is a lot more to it than your conspiracy and corruption claims.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
That picture says C. 2004, so I assume it's from 2004? And the YF-23 used F-119 engines without the TVC right. They never did develop the F-120 for the test model.

Actually, I believe that PAV-2 utilized the GE F-120 engine and PAV-1 used the PW F-119. Don't take it as scripture though, this is just what I've seen a few times, might be wrong.

Shattered OUT...

What if... ...the F/A-23A plans and CAD are not so secret as you think they are... ;-)

Thanks for that image matej. I've been looking for a good quality 3 point view drawing.

Originally posted by indian_sukhoi
This is How it Looks now

.

SHRIEEEEEK! This is blasphemous heresy! How dare they let that aircraft collect so much dust? Ship it up to Toronto, there will at least be people who clean it!

Can someone repost the picture Matej linked to because when I click on the link all I get is a "CHYBA!!! HĽADANÁ STRÁNKA NEEXISTUJE!", whatever that means.

It looks like its just deterioration like you get on your car. Ever seen pain bubble? Looks just like that but on a small scale. It would be caused rust on a car, but I have no idea what would do that on aluminum. The RAM might have done that when deteriorating, that seems more likely.

On a side note about selection, maintenance is a huge thing. If you can't get enough planes in the air, then the airframe is worthless. I believe the YF-23 had some problems with maintenance, but again everything is speculation. I've talked to some Air Force guys on another forum and they said the F-22 won on merit and that politics had little to do with it.

I believe there's an interim bomber competition coming up and I've heard rumors about the YF-23 being pulled out for that, beyond that not a thing.

Here you go WestPoint. YF-23

I deleted it for a few hours to fix bug with exhaust nozzles. I missed F/A-23 nozzles and instead used F/B-23 nozzles - now its correct.