US soldiers shy from battle in Iraq

US soldiers shy from battle in Iraq

atimes.com

WATERTOWN, New York - Iraq war veterans now stationed at a base here in upstate New York say that morale among US soldiers in the country is so poor, many are simply parking their Humvees and pretending to be on patrol, a practice dubbed "search and avoid" missions.

(visit the link for the full news article)

A headline yesterday said that US military fatalities were declining for the second month in a row. The reason: 'the US troop increase and an Iraqi groundswell against Al Qaeda and Shi'ite militia extremists'

Well, maybe there's another reason...but whatever the cause, I hope the trend continues. Major General Rick Lynch even declared: 'I've never been more optimistic than I am right now with the progress we've made in Iraq.'

Well, apparently some Vets are becoming more vocal with their disagreement. Who do you believe?

atimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Aliff said he participated in roughly 300 patrols. "We were hit by so many roadside bombs we became incredibly demoralized, so we decided the only way we wouldn't be blown up was to avoid driving around all the time."

"So we would go find an open field and park, and call our base every hour to tell them we were searching for weapons caches in the fields and doing weapons patrols and everything was going fine," he said, adding, "All our enlisted people became very disenchanted with our chain of command."

Aliff, who suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), refused to return to Iraq with his unit, which arrived in Kirkuk two weeks ago. "They've already lost a guy, and they are now fostering the sectarian violence by arming the Sunnis while supporting the Shi'ites politically ... classic divide and conquer.

According to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), the number of Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans seeking treatment for PTSD increased nearly 70% in the 12 months ending on June 30.

The nearly 50,000 VA-documented PTSD cases greatly exceed the 30,000 military personnel that the Pentagon officially classifies as wounded in both occupations.

Amazing article, had to put some more quotes from it in here for those not having time to click/read all posts. Time's up U.S. gov't -- get them out now! A half a TRILLION$ for Iraq Quagmire is more then enough loot wasted for Druggie Jr and Oil Cheney's Nazi fantasies. They're nothing for them to do anymore, retreat, "mission accomplished" and farewell.

"And the clown in the flight suit is cracking jokes to the camera crew"

edit: I don't want to read a word about "cowards" -- let's see you drive around land freaking mines/IEDs and not get disgusted w/ "lack of progress" or whatever the terms are today for keeping them there, aside from "permanent war" which won't happen since the US is soon to be bankrupt from Druggie Jr's 9 TRILLION $$$ DEBT inflicted on that nation.

[edit on 25-10-2007 by anhinga]

I can't say I blame the poor guys and gals...I pity them...Trusting their superiors and being thrown into an impossible situation like that...

If that doesn't mess with your mind in a big way, its a miracle...

Just make sure they get the support, compassion and love they deserve when they get home...

Peace

Argh. The situation makes me so frustrated. I just want our citizens home and out of harms way right now!

Huzzah to National isolationism and self-sufficiency! HUZZAH!

I see it as human nature and the natural pull of trying to survive in a situation that was not mean to be the way it is.

Sad that they had to be involve in Iraq fighting somebody else battler that has nothing to do with the safety of our nation and its population.

I bet that if our soldiers were here in our soil fighting a foreign invader trying to take away our nation they will be more than willing to fight and more than half of the American population will be behind them.

Bring our soldiers home and let corporate American send their own sons and daughters to fight in Iraq.

Okay, I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag on this report. Do you all just scour the internet till you find news articles that support your views, or do you look for corroborative reports before coming to conclusions? I'd take any reports from a Chinese news source with a grain of salt for one, and as a servicemember who's been downrange, has friends downrange, has spoken with folks just back from downrange, I find this to be a ridiculous assertion.

Maybe the veterans have realized the real reason for the war after having been in Iraq for so many years.

Bring the troops home and stop attacking middle eastern countries for greed and profit.


[edit on 25-10-2007 by Copernicus]

We have the best soldiers money can buy, and that is the problem. We have to make it impossible to sell them to industry. They should place themselves in harm's way for the people not for big oil. They need more places to hide.

I really want to hear more from the Vets and U.S. Soldiers who have stories that confirm or contradict these mixed reports I keep hearing.
BlueRaja- Your imput above says a lot. YOU were there and have friends that are/were there and you believe BS. See now, I believe YOU. A hell of a lot more than any current news source floating around the net. And I keep seeing that someone will quote a news source and begin a thread and those who experience the things reported in the source say "No way, it wasn't like that..." Thank you for your post!

It happened here just recently, same thing. Shoddy/Slanted reporting and Vets coming in to call "wrong".

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I hope more U.S. Vets and current Servicemen chime in a lot more on what they really witnessed compared to the reports coming out. That could really put a pinch on the partisan reporting going on. Neo-con OR Liberal, we're being lied to IMO.

Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail


Thanks for the kind words. It's just aggravating when I see posts like this from folks who've never seen things first hand, but are utterly confident that their views have been vindicated, after seeing stories from questionable sources making outrageous claims. If one is to remain open minded, then conclusions should be made only after sufficient supporting facts exist. To come to a conclusion first, and then search for facts to back it up, is putting the cart before the horse and lead to fallacious logic.
Another pet peeve is either taking isolated incidents/quotes to support views, or looking at things out of context. When I see an argument for some view based on PFC Snuffy's blog, I just have to shake my head.
Is this to say that there aren't disgruntled or disillusioned service members? Absolutely not, but you have to argue from the general to the specific, not the other way around. You can't assume that because PFC Snuffy is unhappy or demoralized, that you can apply that as being the norm for the entire force(or even a significant portion for that matter).
That's akin to quoting the postal employee who just shot up his place of work, to get an accurate understanding of what it's like in their office.

This is ridiculous. I am beginning to think that people will post anything on this website just to get points.

If this article were true, than the soldiers in it would be opening themselves up to prosecution for a number of charges. Chief among them would be dereliction of duty, which carries a hefty punishment if proven true.

Double post, please delete.

[edit on 25/10/07 by COOL HAND]

reply to post by BlueRaja


Honestly yes most people try and find articles that support their position, and ignore anything that would contradict it. The war and the politics involved get people pretty upset. Alot of people it seems are more angry about our spending then the troops or Iraqi Civilians. That in my opinion is sick. So in the mean time, they continue to make up names for our leaders, because somehow it makes them feel better. It also adds a ton of credibility to their arguments.... I mean..

I don't make a habit of defending myself, not on the Internet, nor in my walk-a-day life. I will only say that posting this article was not a points grab...I think my thread-count will bear that out. And no, I didn't go looking for news print to co-sign my personal belief's with respect to the situation in Iraq, or the administration that created it. In fact, I happened across this piece while researching a stock board this morning.

Leaving the messenger & his motives aside, whether you support the war in Iraq or not...whether you trust the allegations made in this Asia Times article or not, IVAW is a valid organization...it exists, and so does it's membership. These Vets and active military, have an important POV. Patriotism, and courage-beyond-the-call imo...they deserve a voice imo.

As a fellow sufferer, I have a particular affinity for PTSD afflicted Vets. The numbers coming out of Iraq are huge. Factor-in the collateral damage; children, wives...broken homes & families. It's heartbreaking.

Personally, I didn't see anything in that article that inferred cowardice on the part of our troops if that is what some folks are responding to...on the contrary.

Thanks for your input BlueRaja, and a special thanks for your service. Your point about making assumptions is particularly appropriate.

Originally posted by OBE1Personally, I didn't see anything in that article that inferred cowardice on the part of our troops if that is what some folks are responding to...on the contrary.

They did not complete their mission because they were afraid, what would you call it?

They failed to complete their mission and put other lives at stake. I can only wonder what their chain of command is thinking right now.

I can only wonder how many other soldiers were injured or killed by weapons these idiots would have found if they did their job.

reply to post by OBE1


Amen to that my friend, I wonder why is so hard for some people this far into the mess in Iraq for to comprehend that our soldiers are not blind, deft or mute they know what Iraq is all about what is costing to our nation and to the lives put in harms way.

Sad that demoralizing the ones that wants to talk is acceptable because it make this liberation war nothing more than a scam and the ones been short handed are in our service ranks.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

They did not complete their mission because they were afraid, what would you call it?

I call it a morale issue CH...starts at the top.

I can only wonder what their chain of command is thinking right now.

My guess? No surprises.

Originally posted by OBE1
I call it a morale issue CH...starts at the top.

How can you call that a morale issue? A morale issue would be that they are homesick, not shirking their duties.

I can only wonder what their chain of command is thinking right now.

My guess? No surprises.

Good thing for these cowards. If their chain of command was aware of this and not prosecuting them, then they are just as much at fault.

I wonder if the morale of the troops is down because every time you open the paper, there's some story/article about people calling the war "immoral", "wrong", "War for oil", "quagmire", etc, and your own Congress saying the war is lost (Thank you, Harry Reid)?

I spoke to some guys that did truck convoys in Iraq. Some were Senior NCOs, some lower ranking enlisted troops. Several are wounded (lost hearing, etc).

They said it was scary (what combat isnt'?), but they didn't see anything like "Search and avoid" patrols. In fact, they said the guys were good about patrolling, because they said if they didn't do the job right, other guys could get killed thru their inattention.