Pyramid questions

I have a couple questions that I have regarding the pyramids:

1.) Why were no others built after Menkaure's? Or if there were others built, why were they not built to the magnatude of the 3 at Giza?

2.) Why did the Pyramids get smaller and smaller at Giza? I.E., why wouldn't Khafre want his bigger and better than Khufu's? Why wouldn't Menkaure want his bigger and better than Khafre's?

Any ideas?

Debunkers will deny it, but its a fact:

Technology went downhill from egyptian dynasty to dynasty (devolution instead of evolution:-).

There is only one single explanation for this: Technology/Knowledge was higher in times earlier than we have records about.

reply to post by Jaruseleh


pyramids continue to be constructed for almost another 1,000 years, the last one being built by Amenemhat III between c. 1860 - 1814 bc at Hawara. The size of the pyramid declines probably because the pharoahs were not able to muster as much man-power or be able to pay for pyramids the size of the ones at Giza.

there is no de-evolution of technology, rather just declining political power, and also changing styles of architecture. Not having records does not mean we dont know about their technology.

Some egyptologist would have you believe that pyarmid building was a trial and error process with the final product being the Great Pyramid. Really it was a total opposite. The Egyptians inherited the Great Pyramids...they were there when the Egyptians arrived and are still there today. The Egyptians worked endlessly trying to reconstruct the Great Pyramids all across Egypt but were never successful. It had nothing to do with the amount of workers available for a project of this scope...basically they did not have the mental capacity to achieve or understand the concepts of the original builders. So what appears to be a progression to greatness was actually a revesal and a switch to temple building was instilled to rival the "greatness" of those that built the Pyramids. Believe it or Not!

Originally posted by Wired
The Egyptians worked endlessly trying to reconstruct the Great Pyramids all across Egypt but were never successful. It had nothing to do with the amount of workers available for a project of this scope...basically they did not have the mental capacity to achieve...

My emphasis.

Hmmm,

From this post I must conclude that Wired is an Ancient Egyptian.

Harte

reply to post by Jaruseleh


An analogy might well be to ask why we stopped building huge, grand, cathedrals in Europe?

Today we build much smaller, simpler, buildings. Why? Do we no longer have the technology? Were medieval cathedrals built by aliens?

Or can we simply no longer afford to build such overly grandiose structures?

Indeed an excellent analogy.

The ability to build grandiose buildings is RARELY about technical limitations. Its all about dedication.

In medieval times, the Church reigned supreme and they could literally *force* people to build cathedrals. And such magnificent feats of engineering it turned out.

I made a comparison with someone claiming that we cant lift 2 ton rocks without "modern" tools, so we couldnt possibly have built the pyramids.

But then how did we lift the 10+ ton bells up the cathedrals?

Howdy Merka

The largest stone/weight moved by non mechanized means was 1,500 tons, in the ancient world it was probably around 800-1,100 tons.

The Thunder stone redux

More on moving the stone - in French

The Thunder Stone

A double Howdy to my old BBS colleague Wired, one of the last of the dying breed of unabashed Sitchin believers.

Some egyptologist would have you believe that pyarmid building was a trial and error process with the final product being the Great Pyramid. Really it was a total opposite. The Egyptians inherited the Great Pyramids...they were there when the Egyptians arrived and are still there today. The Egyptians worked endlessly trying to reconstruct the Great Pyramids all across Egypt but were never successful. It had nothing to do with the amount of workers available for a project of this scope...basically they did not have the mental capacity to achieve or understand the concepts of the original builders. So what appears to be a progression to greatness was actually a revesal and a switch to temple building was instilled to rival the "greatness" of those that built the Pyramids. Believe it or Not!

Actually wired, virtually all Egyptogists believe that not just "some"

Evidence that supports you saying "Really it was a total opposite." Evidence by the way doesn't mean referencing a Sitchin book.

basically they did not have the mental capacity to achieve or understand the concepts of the original builders

Isn't that a bit racist Wired? You believe they couldn't build the Giza pyramids-not even Menkaurie's but they were smart enought to completely disassemble them and spread gypsum mortar through out the structure- which has carbon particles in it which were dated to around 2450 BC.

So Wired how do you explain the builders village found in the mid 90's? Why did all those Egyptian craftsmen and professional think they were building the Giza pyramids? Were they ALL crazy?

Howdy Essan- excellent observation and analogy

Originally posted by Wired
Some egyptologist would have you believe that pyarmid building was a trial and error process with the final product being the Great Pyramid. Really it was a total opposite. The Egyptians inherited the Great Pyramids...they were there when the Egyptians arrived and are still there today. The Egyptians worked endlessly trying to reconstruct the Great Pyramids all across Egypt but were never successful. It had nothing to do with the amount of workers available for a project of this scope...basically they did not have the mental capacity to achieve or understand the concepts of the original builders. So what appears to be a progression to greatness was actually a revesal and a switch to temple building was instilled to rival the "greatness" of those that built the Pyramids. Believe it or Not!

To add evidence to this claim:

The "earliest" pyramid, the step pyramid of Djoser is dated to the 3rd Dynasty.
However bones and remains have been found in the underground galleries of the step pyramid with radiocarbon dating to the generations before Djoser.
Therefore using this evidence it COULD be put forward that the pyramid was already there when the Egyptians settled and they re-used it.


[edit on 1-11-2007 by lemox]

Howdy Lemox

Radiocarbon dating of the pyramids

The report is of RC dating of a number of ancient Egyptian sites to include the Djoser stepped pyramid. The dates for it were 2620-2611 BC. The people who became the "Egyptians" had been in the Nile valley for several thousand years before they began making pyramids.

I'd be interested to see the cite for your information on the earlier material.

Thanks

Originally posted by Hanslune
Howdy Lemox

Radiocarbon dating of the pyramids

The report is of RC dating of a number of ancient Egyptian sites to include the Djoser stepped pyramid. The dates for it were 2620-2611 BC. The people who became the "Egyptians" had been in the Nile valley for several thousand years before they began making pyramids.

I'd be interested to see the cite for your information on the earlier material.

Thanks

I was merely humouring Wired.
I am well aware the peoples of the Nile valley had been there for a long time (human activity evidence from 20,000BC).
The Djoser pyramid is radiocarbon dated to 2630-2611 BC.

The article I am referring to is:
'Re-investigation of the Remains Thought to Be of King Djoser and Those of an Unidentified Female from the Step Pyramid at Saqqara'.

Ive got the article around here somewhere but I cant find it, you wont be able to get it online im afraid. But it basically says:

Within the burial chamber, only minor bone fragments were found, and it is not clear whether they actually came from Djoser's mummy. In fact, recent radiocarbon dating shows them to be many centuries younger than Djoser.

Source

- one theory is that the Step pyramid was built over older 1st and 2nd dynasty mastaba tombs and the remains transferred to the underground galleries.
- another is that they were relatives of Djoser and they were moved from their tombs into Djosers tomb.



[edit on 1-11-2007 by lemox]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Debunkers will deny it, but its a fact:

Technology went downhill from egyptian dynasty to dynasty (devolution instead of evolution:-).

There is only one single explanation for this: Technology/Knowledge was higher in times earlier than we have records about.

Again with slamming the debunkers. Oh, that never gets old.

I don't think anybody is denying that there were historical things that happened such as wars, internal conflicts and natural disasters like extended droughts that caused the relatively sophisticated Egyptian civilization to decay. It happened in a lot of different places. The question is what kind and what degree of technology/knowledge was known.

Some people seem to think it was advanced alien antigravity machines or something like that, not giving people credit for being as smart as they were. There were, after all, geniuses back then just like there are now.

What is more likely is that they had very sophisticated knowledge about how to efficiently organize people to accomplish major construction projects and enough resources to be able to do it. So it's not so much a matter of losing some incredibly advanced superior knowledge, but more that because there was no longer an opportunity to use these skills, they fell into disuse.

But if somebody manages to dig up an old antigravity machine or Stargate or some other interesting piece of wildly sophisticated machinery, I'm sure the debunkers will be more than happy to take a look at it. All debunkers are looking for is less bunk, after all. Until then, though, it's bunk until proven otherwise.

Howdy Lemox & Nohup

If the fragments were from a younger time then it means the bodies may have been placed in the tomb after it was built.

I understand the comments on here, because most people would rather quote a sixth grade teacher than pay attention to some remarkable archeological achievements that have come since gradeschool.

The egyptians never claimed to build the Great pyramid. The people who do claim to have built it (unless thoth tablets are true) is the Sumerians which were an older civilization.

The Sumerians created our calendar, math, writing (over 400 character), the had laws and a very advanced legal system based on precedents.

Although we should fluff off their society as a whole because they claim that it was people from another planet who influenced them. They have left us with over 22000 tablets of information.

Many suggest that carvings and Tablets are not advanced enough to show advancements, but maybe...

Keep an open mind.

Just maybe they did have a flood like what they documented, and wanted a more permanent record in case it happened again. Yes people; Noah was likely a Sumerian.

So anyways. Maybe they were more in tune with nature and didnt want to destroy thousands of trees for newspapers.. I don't know.

However there is too much historical evidence to show that maybe we are not the most advanced societies to have existed on this planet.

The pyramids used 40 seventy metric ton beams in the construction of the kings chamber (halfway up) that was quarried over 500 miles away.

If you are skeptical of my claims, then please revamp your knowledge a little before you continue.

Check this out for starters, however I could go on.


The point is that we have discovered a cache of Literature from the oldest civilization known to mankind. The Sumerians.

Now they not only had very advanced math, very advanced understanding of ASTRONOMY. They also were the first to use Astrology. They described all of our planets, long before we even discovered them.

Our western culture actually believed the world was flat merely 600 years ago. So we can say for a fact that the Sumerians were more advanced than us 600 years ago.

Now the Sumerians do talk about "celestial boats" and aliens. So maybe they had some very creative science fiction writers.

Now. I am not expecting anybody to actually spend five minutes and google any of this, but if you are curious about the Pyramids then maybe considering this possibility is not so far fetched as it was when you were in sixth grade.

If the above video is too educational to bother with at least look quickly at this website, and you will see what EGYPTOLOGISTs called a bird model.

You will see that over 2000 years ago children were playing with toys that were EXACTLY like airplaines we use today. This was over 2000 years ago. long before orville and wilbur.

[urlwww.bibliotecapleyades.net...[/url]

Now I don't mean to undermine your sixth grade teacher, as they are only teaching what has been taught in textbooks.

But we have moved into an information age and information is what we are getting. Christopher dunn has even solved the riddle of the pyramids, or at least the engineering dynamics of it.

Watch these.
www.youtube.com...


watch them if you want to see where we are scientifically up to now.

If you are going to formulate and educated skepticism then please let it be educated, and not based on your coles notes.

Some pyramids were learned by trial and error in many parts of the world, and that has been demonstrated on this thread.
HOWEVER THE GREAT PYRAMID WAS BUILT BEFORE BENT PYRAMID.
REVERSE. engineered, and badly.

We barely possess the technology today to even DISMANTLE the great pyramid. no prob with first 2 million blocks weighing 5000 pounds, but we would need a heavy duty crane to move 70 ton rocks, and moving them back to their quarry site 5 miles away would be very fun.

So go ahead and quote your textbooks while you can, because they will be garbage soon.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by friendlyprogrammer]