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The Dulce Papers... fact or fiction?

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posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:51 AM
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Well in that case I will retire for the night, and read this in the morning.


I must say it was very nice talking with you Mr. Lear, even though not much was said. You are highly respected in my eyes and I have hopes that one day I will be able to meet you in person.

Good night




posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:56 AM
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Wow its nice to see you over here John

Its fun to see you jumping around the boards with the rest of us.....


I'm looking forward to your posts



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 03:21 AM
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Hello alexbassguy, I was the originator of the so-called Dulce papers.

I have told the story many times but I will give you a short recap.

The story starts in Crestone Colorado where a group of UFO researchers met to discuss the issues of the UFO field. I believe the date was in September of 1987. Someone had donated a condo with several rooms where we all stayed for about 3 days.

Attending were Linda Moulton Howe, Tom Adams, maybe Chris Lambright and a few others whose names I have forgotten.

Tom Adams put out a little newsletter from his home in Texas called Stigmata and it covered mostly cattle mutilations.

Tom handed me a letter he had received from a person is Las Vegas who I shall refer to as MR. X. The letter told about an intriguing facility north of Los Alamos in a little town called Dulce. It told about a joint US/alien facility that was built deep underground that had “tiled hallways that went on forever.”

Tom told me he didn’t have time to respond to this letter and since I lived in Las Vegas would I check it out. I agreed and he gave me the letter. (I thought I still had that letter but it is not in the Dulce file that I am working with tonight).

When I got back to Vegas a week or so later I called MR. X and arranged a meeting. Mr. X told me about a security guard who was a close friend of his who worked at an underground facility called Dulce and due to many unspeakable things that he has witnessed escaped with 25 black and white photos, a 6 minutes security video tape of one of the hallways and several hundred papers of a technical nature that were going on in the facility.

Mr. X told me that Thomas Costello, the security guard, had told him an incident that occurred in 1979 where 44 scientists had been killed along with 22 Delta Force personnel.

This is what has become know as the ‘Dulce Wars’ but it wasn’t a war. According to Costello and later backed up by Bob Lazar who read about the incident in a briefing at S-4, a Gray alien being was giving instruction of some type to 44 scientists at Dulce.

Apparently a security guard with Delta Force, who helped patrol and provide security for the Dulce base, entered the room with a side arm of some type. It was known by all Dulce personnel that no firearms of any kind where allowed anywhere near the Grays. Whatever the reason for the security guards mistake, the Gray immediately killed him and the 44 scientists. Seeing the disaster taking place on the security cameras, other Delta Force personnel came for revenge but the alien killed them also.

I met many times with Mr. X discussing Dulce and some weird things happened that made me think that someone was monitoring these meetings.

During one of the meetings Mr. X told me that Costello had given him one of 5 or 6 sets of the ‘papers’ which included the photos, the video tape and the technical date.

After verifying that the photos, papers and video tape were in the container, the container was sealed in a water proof box which was then itself sealed with some type of plastic covering. Costello told Mr. X at the time of the transfer that his wife and children had disappeared and that he was on the run. Costello told Mr. X to bury the box in a safe location and that he would contact him every 4 to 6 months. If he should miss two contacts in a row it meant that he was dead or that he had been taken back to Dulce.

Dulce employed special ‘bounty hunters’ for just this type of incident.

Mr. X buried the box near Dolan Springs, Arizona, about an hours drive south of Las Vegas high up in the mountains. Mr. X and I drove to Dolan Springs once were he pointed out the approximate location of the buried box.

Several years went by and Mr. X told 2 other persons about the box and its location.

Sometime in the middle 1990’s I forget exactly when, Thomas Costello had missed two consecutive contacts and it was over a year since MR. X had heard from him. He waited another 6 months and then began a search to recover the box.

I never went on the search but 2 friends of mine did. They made 4 or 5 (maybe more) expeditions to where Mr. X had remembered hiding the box but never found it. A great deal of effort went into the search but no trace of the box was ever found.

During one of our Meetings Mr. X produced 8 pencil drawings and one had written page (in pencil) of data. The 8 pencil drawings were views from the 25 photographs that Costello had taken from Dulce. The hand written page was information that Costello had given him. He asked if I would copy and distribute the information. I agreed.

I believe that the date I distributed the Dulce papers was in 1988 sometime. I think around March.

Since the pencil drawings were too faint to duplicate I copied them in black ink. I then typed up a one page letter. The first paragraph is the circumstances under which I received the Dulce papers. The second paragraph contains what is written in pencil regarding what Mr. X knew from Costello and the information Costello had given him.

The typewriter I used was unique as it was an IBM Executive with proportional spacing. I bought it in 1966 when I worked for the Flying Tiger Line and was President of their wholly owned subsidiary Airjet Charters and always used it. I mention this only because it proves that I wrote and distributed the original Dulce Papers.

I took the 8 pages of black ink drawings and one typewritten page and sent copies to several of my friends.

The ‘Dulce’ papers interested many and were copied and recopied and over the years the story has been told and retold with many errors creeping into the retelling.

You may see many video tapes of the interior of Dulce but I can assure you they are all fabricated. Some came from a Japanese production on Dulce, some came from other places. But no video tape, other than the one that Costello allegedly had, has ever gotten out of Dulce period.

Over the years I have obtained at least 2 confirmations that the Dulce base exists.

When Bob Lazar was briefed about the incident at S-4 the document he was reading said the incident happened at Area 51, not Dulce. I have no explanation for the discrepancy except possibly Lazar’s clearance had maybe not reached the level where he could know about Dulce. But that is speculation.

The other person who confirmed Dulce was a government insider, the only true government insider I ever met who told me that Dulce was real, he had been there but that he knew is as Section D.

I have had one or two other confirmations but I can’t remember who told me or when.

Of course, all of this sounds like a science fiction story but I am telling you the story exactly as it happened. I may have made a few errors in recalling the exact details because it’s been 20 years since it happened.

Many say I am the product of disinformation. That may be true. But if it is disinformation someone went to an awful lot of trouble and led me on a long and windy path. They would have had to continue this disinformation for 10 years or more. And I agree that that is indeed possible.

But for my part, I don’t believe it was disinformation. I believe the Dulce facility is real and stories come my way every once in a while to confirm its existence.

The only other person to relate correctly the Dulce story is Branton (see the Branton Files). If you find a discrepancy between my story and his I will be happy to review it and give you my opinion.

There are 3 other persons (other than Branton) who are intimately familiar with the Dulce story and I am deliberately leaving their names out of this post. You know who you are and if you want to identify yourselves or if I can reveal your names you know my email. All three know way, way, way more than I do about Dulce.

Below I have posted the 8 original pencil drawings that Mr. X gave to me which he drew from the original photographs that Costello gave to him. They are very light and hard to see but thats the best I could do. They are the originals.

Below that I will post the one handwritten page of information which is also very light.

Below that I will post the one typewritten page that I sent with the drawings and the 8 pen and black ink drawings that I traced from the original drawings.






































posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 03:27 AM
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Fabulous story John, not quite as good as Mines on the Moon, but good all the same.
Just one problem
Proof? Evidence? any of that at all? just one little piece of evidence, other than witterings and hearsay?
No?
Ah well........................

Have you even bothered to consider the logistics of having an underground site even half as big as you described.?

Theres a woman on UK TV that use to be in an advert and had a famous saying.

"You cant half tell them"



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Chorlton



Have you even bothered to consider the logistics of having an underground site even half as big as you described.?




Thanks for the post Chorlton. Yes I thought about that and considering that today they probably have underground facilities that are five times as big all I can say is "WOW"!!!!

Thanks again for your post. You bring a level of skepticism that is very important for some on ATS.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear


Thanks for the post Chorlton. Yes I thought about that and considering that today they probably have underground facilities that are five times as big all I can say is "WOW"!!!!


'They' ??
Who 'They' John?.
Care to provide one little snifter of proof instead of long yarns of fairtales?
Care to show us any sign of any logistical support for those massive subterranean constructs??
No??

Thought so

Thanks for the post though. I was in dire need of a laugh



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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This is amazing, imagine how large this base must be now and how far along their technology is. Thanks for posting all this information. I have some questions for you Mr Lear....

Has there ever been any investigations into this "Thomas Costello" person?

How is it possible to run such an operation that this obviously is without having more people leaking information? Mind control? Fear of repercussions?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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thanks a lot for taking the time to post this john, it certainly is very interesting.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by Chorlton
 


Chorlton, why do you come on this thread and make unfun of things? If you don't want to read what other people think and belive, especially if you don't agree with the "fring" topics discussed here, then don't register on ATS. I highly respect John Lear as a source of viabe information, and if you disagree so strongly as to criticize him openly and harshly, please keep your thoughts to yourself. Your posts didn't contribute much to the thread at all, all they accomplished was insulting the intelligence of an incredible man who has quite a story to tell. I'm not trying to take a shot at you personally, I'm just saying that your comments are unneccesary and unneeded. He's obviously given all the proof he has, and if that isn't good enough for you, that's OK. Just don't say things like "Thanks, I was in a good laugh." That's just rude.

Anyways, back to the discussion...
That's an amazing story, Mr. Lear. Have any recent searches been made to attempt to recover the box? What search methods were used? Does anyone have a specific area, or even GPS coordinates to search for? I'd love to drive down there with a metal detector or something and try to find the box myself.

The drawings are amazing... do you have a higher resolution of the page of written data?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by alexbassguy
reply to post by Chorlton
 


Chorlton, why do you come on this thread and make unfun of things? If you don't want to read what other people think and belive, especially if you don't agree with the "fring" topics discussed here, then don't register on ATS. I highly respect John Lear as a source of viabe information, and if you disagree so strongly as to criticize him openly and harshly, please keep your thoughts to yourself. Your posts didn't contribute much to the thread at all, all they accomplished was insulting the intelligence of an incredible man who has quite a story to tell. I'm not trying to take a shot at you personally, I'm just saying that your comments are unneccesary and unneeded. He's obviously given all the proof he has, and if that isn't good enough for you, that's OK. Just don't say things like "Thanks, I was in a good laugh." That's just rude.


This is an open forum.
The title of the OP is "The Dulce Papers... fact or fiction?"
Its is asking for peoples comments OK?
When I see someone posting outrageously unproveable stories, I have exactly as much right to post as you, he and anyone else does.
He provides a yarn to startle children with yet provides not one scrap of evidence to back up that yarn.

If you wish to believe the yarns John Lear spins, without even attempting to verify them or asking him for evidence then fine, do so, but please dont even attempt to stop others from posting their ideas or asking for evidence of those yarns, that rings of censorship, dictatorship or stupidity.

Thank you for your post I hope you enjoy John Lears stories alongside your copy of Harry Potter, as they are both as truthfull as each other.



[edit on 17/9/07 by Chorlton]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 10:56 PM
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Harry Potter, Chorlton?.

I find you to be some kind of Lear stalker, this is not the first time that I read your distasteful and absurd comments. If you dislike what John has to say then please don`t read his posts, John deserves respect and although you are right and this is an open forum, I don`t think that anyone has to put up with constant discredit. You might think that you are contributing to deny ignorance, but for the rest of us, and specially people that are only starting to read about John`s ideas, keep your Lear hatred to yourself.

Carry on John, your posts are greatly appreciatted.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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This is exactly what I didn't want this thread to turn into - some petty name-calling war. I shouldn't ever have said anything to Chorlton, i should've just let him be. I get really sick and tired of ATS turning, after 10 or 15 useful, interesting posts, into some lame, space-wasting epitome of human ignorance.

Now can we PLEASE forget this and get back to what we were talking about origionally? Jesus.

So - can anyone enlarge/verify what the "tech page" of John's upload says? I think the key to a lot of answers may lie in that document. The drawings are good, but I think that page may go into much greater detail.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Chorlton
 


I beg to differ on the evidence part, there is much evidence to support what John has to say, maybe if you read all the material that is out there, instead of just coming in here and blasting the thread with ignorance, you would see for yourself that what John says is 100% correct.

Most of us came here for clarification of things, we did not come here to debate with someone that obviously is a non-believer.

All I can say is Level 8 is waiting on you, I'm sure they have a space free.


[edit on 17-9-2007 by magycpapyri]



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by alexbassguy
 

I'm trying to see if I can enlarge it, If I can't I'm sure someone on ATS can do it. I can see some of it, but would love to see it more plainly.

Thank You John for the great information, there were a few things in your information that I was unaware of. If only another whistle blower would come forth



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by alexbassguy


So - can anyone enlarge/verify what the "tech page" of John's upload says? I think the key to a lot of answers may lie in that document. The drawings are good, but I think that page may go into much greater detail.


Which one do you want? Do you mean the handwritten page?



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:26 AM
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Here is an enlargment of the handwritten page.




posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 01:03 AM
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For those of you who don't want to strain the eyes reading sloppy cursive:

CAUTION: Mildly graphic, quite disturbing.


lots of papers/documents that discuss copper and molyb-- (can't remember name) also papers about magnesium and potassium, most about copper, "medical terms." Papers with names, adresses, world wide. Charts and strange diagrams, papers(?) of ultraviolet light. papers about color - black - white and how to avoid detection thru certain colors (lights). Photographs, black and white. one video tape, no dialog, origional negatives. five copies. Papers telling what the aliens are after. how the blood is used.
aliens seem to absorb atoms to "eat"
Alien hands put on blood, sort of like a sponge. they don't have to eat. it's not just food they want, the (Cattle and Human) DNA is altered & creature is a lab animal. "they" know how to change the atoms to create a (type ONE) temporary "almost human being." but it is animal tissue, and depends on a computer to simulate memory, the "computer" reads your memory, feeds out your own memory with proper dialog. the "almost human" is slightly slow and clumsy, real humans are used for training, to experiment and to breed with "almost humans" some humans are kidnapped, used (even atoms) completely. Some are kept in large tubes, they are kept alone by the amber liquid. some humans are brainwashed and used to distort the truth. certain male humans have high sperm count. those men are kept alive. the use the sperm to alter the DNA, creating a (type TWO) nongender being, that sperm is grown some way and altered again, put in large wombs, many destroyed, certain are altered again and put in seperate wombs. they resemble "ugly" humans. they have a short life span. they are alive, but I don't know if they have soul or something else. they grow quickly, seemingly to grow from sperm to human in a few months. some female beings are used for breeding. some women have had a sudden miscarraige after about 3 months pregnancy. some never knew they were pregnant. others remember contact some way. the fetus is used to mix the DNA of Types one and two. the atomic makeup in that fetus is half human, half "almost human"; it could not survive. the wrong half is near complete cycle and would abort with a couple weeks.

Everything in this section is from memory


there's the transcript.

so it seems Dulce's true purpose is human genome experiments.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by magycpapyri
 



Firstly check the Name of this post
Its called Dulce Fact or fiction then the poster goes on to say "Any Thoughts".

One again people jump to concusions. Why do you assume (wrongly) that I havent read everything available on Dulce? What gives you that idea?

In responce to the OP's question "Fact or fiction". The Dulce story is pure fiction. Despite what people say there is NO, evidence of anything under Dulce, Nothing.
Do some of you realise what logistics are needed in place for an underground site? I would suggest you do a sniff around at even the smallest of underground sites and take a peek. When you bung a void underground you create problems, put humans in that environment and the problems multiply , then put machines down there and the problems become massive, clean air, water waste dispose exhaust fumes, condensation, heat etc etc etc. Thats not to mention the truckloads of supplies that would have to be trucked in every day.
Now take a look around Dulce...........Nothing
Now take a look at all the evidence available about Dulce...........Nothing.
Thats because theres nothing there, never was, its all a tale that has built up and as it gets passed from person to person it gets multiplied.

I am quite alarmed at people that will believe the most fantastic of fairytales yet ignore the logic that must be hammering at their brains.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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Chorlton, as I am the creator of this thread, I would know what it says, as would anyone looking at it. It is called Dulce Papers-Fact of Fiction? Dulce PAPERS. Not Dulce Base, not Dulce Project, Dulce PAPERS. I was not looking for speculation on the base, or the existance thereof. I was referring to a set of documents available from skywatchers.com. I believe that the base is there, so does John Lear and everyone else on this thread. The appropriate way for someone to disagree with others is to come in, read the info, and make a post saying:

Thanks, but I really disagree. There isn't enough information to convince me of the factuality of .

That's it. No insults to anyone, no smart comments about anyone. No fighting, simply a respectful disagreement. It keeps everyone happy and the flow going. Notice that no one has tried to convince you Dulce is real, as all people are entitled to thier own opinions. Heck, point out *nicely and respectfully* what you think is wrong about the theorey. Say something like "Well, there just isn't enough evidence to make this true in these areas: a, b, c..." Thats how good discussions get started. Just yesterday, I read a post and thought it was complete BS. So a made a kind-of joking post poking fun at the issue. But at the end of the post, I said, "Yeah, I dunno, i just can't get with you gguys on this one." But then someone brought up new, better information on the subject, which I then reconsidered and I'm now quite interested in the topic.

All I'm doing is respectfully pointing out a way that you can avoid these altercations.

Please, just stop arguing, everybody. It's very annoying when I'm trying to start a discussion and it gets lost in all of this crap.



posted on Nov, 30 2007 @ 10:05 AM
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First off, thankyou John for directing me to this thread.

Second, Chorlton you seem to be portraying a pattern around and seems to me your looking for attention that you may not be getting elsewhere? Skepticism is good but you seem to enjoy ripping everything apart, finding some thrill or joy in it.

Regards,

Deb




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