Liberals, media, and gays need to know how this country was founded!!

reply to post by Gorman91


The constitution created the government as we know it in 1787.... the Declaration of Independence written in 1776 asserted our right to secede from England.

Two totally difference documents with two totally different purposes.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I said the constitution lists those rights. Yes, it's not the document that says they were given to us by the creator, but it does lists those rights that our founders believed to be given to us by our creator. What rights do you think they were talking about?

reply to post by Ingolstadt


but the creator part isn't part of the governance. it doesn't matter what the people writing the document believed, it matters what the country was founded on, which is what was written down.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Probably ould have made myself clearer, but I think we agree on this. I mentioned the creator thing only to point out that the adjective "christian" was left out, purposefully.

While I myself don't believe in a 'creator', our founders did believe in one and were very good to not inject their religious beliefs into the Constitution, even while they believed that those rights listed in the Bill of Rights were in fact given to mankind by a creator.

This country was indeed founded by Christians, for the most part, but the founders were aware that the U.S. was not to be a Christian nation, if that makes sense.

reply to post by Ingolstadt


you're close... very close to being right. i just have to contest that they weren't mostly christians, there was a divide between christians and deists.

The ten commandments are elementry my dear Watson.

These ideas were around long before moses- they are part of a community minded animal. WE must realize that when we do wrong against the community it effects the over all well being of the group an dthose ourselves and our decendants. Moses wasn't a brain surgeon, he just understoood shorthand.
Our ancestors came to this country to escape religious persecution. And what we are now faced with is a dictatorial Christian Nation- a theocracy just like Afghanistan and Isreal. They ahve cross contaminated each other. Now we have politicians who use religion to suppress and religious leaders who use laws to 'enlighten'.
You've missed the meaning behind both ideologies.
They are now just bastardized versions of their true forms.
One is for freedom and the other is for hope.

Originally posted by grover


The constitution created the government as we know it in 1787.... the Declaration of Independence written in 1776 asserted our right to secede from England.

Two totally difference documents with two totally different purposes.

May be true, but I think the DoI is a gov document. It may not have created us, but it assured that we could create ourself the current gov.

Originally posted by Gorman91
May be true, but I think the DoI is a gov document. It may not have created us, but it assured that we could create ourself the current gov.

well, "I think" doesn't really cut it.
there is nothing governing about it, no government set up. and again, the US constitution makes no mention of any creator and has a separation of church and state.

Just a few misperceptions that I'd like to address, to deny ignorance:

Persephone isn't on top of the Capitol. There was a thread here a few years back where that statement was made and everyone on the thread did lots of research - we realized it wasn't Persephone. It is a statue of "Liberty". You can read about it here:

www.aoc.gov...

THe Koran doesn't tell Moslems to murder non-believers or to murder for no good reason. It does say you have the right to protect yourself, your family/community and if you need to kill someone to do that, it's OK. An idea which makes good sense to me.

There are alot of falsehoods circulating about Islam, it's important to do the research.

[edit on 24/9/07 by forestlady]

reply to post by forestlady


yeah... it's odd that people make all these ridiculous claims about islam without even looking to the resource in this forum, a reference to islam.

i'm all for attacking a religion, so long as you do so on what it actually preaches and teaches.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Both the Koran and Bible have their fair share of violent quotes, the Koran just has more


"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)(WTF??)

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

Bible got just as bad though. They're only in a few books though.

Religion is not following every single scripture, as often, they contradict themselves.

Religion is looking for the Good in the scriptures and acting good. This applies to all faiths

[edit on 24-9-2007 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by forestlady
Just a few misperceptions that I'd like to address, to deny ignorance:

Persephone isn't on top of the Capitol. There was a thread here a few years back where that statement was made and everyone on the thread did lots of research - we realized it wasn't Persephone. It is a statue of "Liberty". You can read about it here:

Thanks forestlady.

Yes, the Statue of Freedom on the Capitol and the Statue of Liberty are statues of Libertas, the Roman Goddess of Liberty.

The fact that the Roman goddess Libertas carries a torch (on Ellis Island) bears quite a resemblance to the Greek myth of Persephone, where she uses a torch to lead the way out of the underworld, symbolizing Freedom.

The stories and images of each of these figures carry much likeness, probably having similar origins. Yes, I jumped the gun saying that it was "Persephone", but it surely seems they have their symbolic similarities, not complete ignorance I guess...

Thanks for the clarification though.

Either way, the fact that the statue on top of the Capitol is a Roman goddess rather than a Greek goddess does not effect the argument that there are more than just Christian symbols in Washington.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Both the Koran and Bible have their fair share of violent quotes, the Koran just has more

no, the koran actually has less... but that could just be because it's a shorter book.

random koran quotes

ok, not the topic of this thread

Bible got just as bad though. They're only in a few books though.

actually, it's got bad stuff in just about every book.

Religion is not following every single scripture, as often, they contradict themselves.

yea... it's odd that many religious people forget that.

Religion is looking for the Good in the scriptures and acting good. This applies to all faiths

but sometimes you can't ignore the bad stuff. especially when, like the bible, it comprises a massive chunk.

[edit on 9/25/07 by madnessinmysoul]

That massive chunk is the old testament. Jesus was a reformer, a person to set it right after ages of corruption. It could even be said that a great deal of the Old Testament is just corrupt babel. When looking into the character of Jesus, the Christian role model, we are suppose to act like him. This is why he is our savior. But least I get more preaching, Your right, Koran is less of a book. percentage wise, out of 100% a great deal is about military conquest. It's more or less a strategist planner for how to take over the world. Given, it has great wisdom, it has a lot less compared to the bible. But as Mohamed said, it is just an extension, a correct version for the Muslim faith. For my faith, the Bible is.

It's just simply this. A religion is as good as it's followers. And the fact remains, Catholics don't invade other countries and kill people for no reason but their faith... any more

In all seriousness, it's the Muslims starting this crusade. West entered, and got bombed, yea, but they fired first. On their own people yes, but that attracted the UN, so it's their own fault. If they actually preached their faith, they would do as Gandhi did. Stop working, and do peaceful protests. Thus stopping the West from entering. For no workers = no oil, and no oil = no interest.

Originally posted by Gorman91
*snipt* And the fact remains, Catholics don't invade other countries and kill people for no reason but their faith... any more

*end snip *

Yep, a getting your butts kicked will tend to do that.

Us Catholics finally learned that it's useless to invade other religions. Muslims didn't learn that yet.

reply to post by Gorman91


the massive chunk also exists in the works of paul... he's quite the sexist.

and i'd say the koran and bible have equal amounts of wisdom... but not much.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Id be willing to put it up in my church! ( I dont attend much anymore but i'd have no problem at all putting it up i think its actually a good idea!)

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Gorman91

 

the massive chunk also exists in the works of paul... he's quite the sexist.

and i'd say the koran and bible have equal amounts of wisdom... but not much.

Show me where, you probably don't understand it.

And more then one.

Don't forget, Paul was Roman, Therefore he talked on the bias of his culture.

It's like you cling to this like some form of evidence of importance. Most of the bible is blah blah blah on how to do this and that. You act as if we worship Paul or something. He's a missionary side line person who's words on religion are important. Who the hell cares about his words on the family? He said don't get married too. That's like saying we should all be mindless slaves and not think about what we read. Are you to say we shouldn't deny ignorance?

One word, when only shown in one area, should be ignored. The reoccurring theme of love thy neighbor as thy self is what's important. And that is Jesus' only and single rule to follow. As such, we worship Jesus, not Paul.

[edit on 26-9-2007 by Gorman91]

[edit on 26-9-2007 by Gorman91]

Still nothin'. Anything on MULTIPLE new testament quotes against women?