Liberals, media, and gays need to know how this country was founded!!

To reply to all of you, the US is NOT entering corruption or state religion. it is trying to eliminate religion, and it's already corrupt. I'm not sure if you realize that, but where in Christianity (the new testament, not the old) does it say to slay all non-believers? Sure the old testament can say whatever it says, but it's not what we live our lives on. Catholicism states that belief in God & the Holy Trinity + Jesus' Golden rule, + the 10 commandments are all that are needed.

Islam states to kill the infidel, and to not give mercy. The Koran is manly on how to subjugate others, enslave women, and kill the aliens(not the UFO type)

You can say all you want on the bible, but the bible clearly states men shall "cling" to the woman. At least the bible states the equal rights of women along with old testament stories of everything. Karan just never stops talking on everyone dying.

Like I said, Muslims need a reformation like the Christian Vat II. At least Catholics have stated that other religions have a chance in heaven.

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


Why does our money say in god we trust?Why is god in our national anthem?Their are tons of things that point to us being a majority of christians,maybe less so today but I'd bet still the majority are christians.

Originally posted by Project_Silo
Why does our money say in god we trust?Why is god in our national anthem?Their are tons of things that point to us being a majority of christians,maybe less so today but I'd bet still the majority are christians.

Um, "god" is not only a concept of "Christians". Jews, Muslims, etc also have "god".

reply to post by intrepid


yes, and it's the Americanized versions of it. I'll never get why they call him Allah or Yahweh over here, when I have to say it their way over there. In any case, it's the universal God of 90% of the World. The Abraham God, and some would even say, some how the Buddhist God. Or, great Spirit, whatever they call it.

reply to post by Gorman91


Many Christians also use Jehovah. Even if they aren't "witnesses".

reply to post by intrepid


For me, it's all the same God with different Masks. If you were God, wouldn't you fool around with your creation too?

reply to post by grover


i thought i recognized them from somewhere... but christianity isn't near a "reformation"
just look at christian attitudes towards unbelievers

Originally posted by Project_Silo
Why does our money say in god we trust?

because somebody thought it was a good idea in the 1860s, then the idea went away and was brought back in the 1950s to show how we were different from the "godless commies"

Why is god in our national anthem?

that has nothing to do with the establishment of religion

Their are tons of things that point to us being a majority of christians,maybe less so today but I'd bet still the majority are christians.

but still, it's not a christian country.
it's a secular nation with a christian majority in the population.

Originally posted by Gorman91
To reply to all of you, the US is NOT entering corruption or state religion. it is trying to eliminate religion, and it's already corrupt.

trying to eliminate it? yes, with all the state sponsorships of faith based organizations and the billions of dollars pouring into it, it's definitely trying to eliminate it.

I'm not sure if you realize that, but where in Christianity (the new testament, not the old) does it say to slay all non-believers? Sure the old testament can say whatever it says, but it's not what we live our lives on. Catholicism states that belief in God & the Holy Trinity + Jesus' Golden rule, + the 10 commandments are all that are needed.

...well, the new testament doesn't outright say to kill unbelievers, but it does say to treat women in a horrible manner and that homosexuals are devilish creatures
oh, and that men shouldn't have long hair because it's an abomination for them to be covered up for they are the glory of god (which goes to show you how well versed in scripture artists used to be) but women should have long hair because they aren't

Islam states to kill the infidel, and to not give mercy. The Koran is manly on how to subjugate others, enslave women, and kill the aliens(not the UFO type)

well, the old testament says the first two things (a collection of books that jesus much approved of).
the bible does have much information on how to subjugate and EXCLUDE others, enslave women, and isolate a community (in a most cultish fashion)

You can say all you want on the bible, but the bible clearly states men shall "cling" to the woman.

and it also clearly states that man > woman...

At least the bible states the equal rights of women along with old testament stories of everything. Karan just never stops talking on everyone dying.

holy telescope, you're deluded!

let's just go with the NT, women:
should be in subjugation to their husbands
young girls should be taught to be obedient to their husbands
women are the weaker vessel
Wives are to use "chaste conversation, coupled with fear." They are not to braid their hair, wear gold, or put on any "apparel."
wives should submit to their husbands
widows that experience any pleasure are dead while they live
Men are superior to women since Adam was made before, and sinned after, Eve. But even though women are inferior to men, they shouldn't be discouraged because they shall "be saved in childbearing."
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (direct quote here)

that's just a bit.

Like I said, Muslims need a reformation like the Christian Vat II. At least Catholics have stated that other religions have a chance in heaven.

and this shows how much you know about religion. vatican 2 only applies to... catholicism.

[edit on 9/21/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Hells bells Mel... the southern Baptist confrence ruled a few years back that a woman's role was to be subervient to her husband.

Where do these people come from and who taught them to use a computer?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul



No duh it only applies to Catholicism. Am I talking about every religion out there. You just proved my point. Vat II, for my religion, states that all religions should seek unity and peace. it states that Atheists can go to heaven if their Good. It also states that all are equal, or the human right to being. See any of that in the Koran? Sure it states be nice, but it also states kill if they do not become Muslim through niceness.

And yes, the bible shows plenty of crap on oppressing women. But do you know when they were written? When the Jewish state was on the verge of collapse, and unity was needed. Corrupt people calming to be God's messenger wrote down whatever they wanted. That's why you see conflicting statements all over the place. One must seek out the good ones, the ones of unity and peace to all.

Today, the Catholic faith says to do 3 things.

1) Obey the 10 commandments and Jesus' Golden rule
2) Reject violence and all forms of oppression.
3) Work for the unity of mankind and his becoming one with God.

I see none of which the middle East is doing. Thank God for westernized Muslims.

========================================
trying to eliminate it? yes, with all the state sponsorships of faith based organizations and the billions of dollars pouring into it, it's definitely trying to eliminate it.
========================================

along with those faith based funds comes at the least an open door if not actual restrictions as to how the church should act.....who knows, when that greatly anticiapated, government sponsored anti-christian religion is due, it might just be able to dance right through this door..

1. America was then, as it is today. There were many devout Christians. Some of whom thought the Church and its teachings should largely influence the government. Other devout Christians thought that government and religion were better off being separate. There were also many people who were not devout Christians. These people were either atheists, agnostics, Jews, or people who simply did not strictly adhere to the teachings of any one church. If any side of this debate claims the founding fathers were on their side, they would be incorrect, because the founding fathers were divided.

2. A questiojn the "pro-religion" crowd would face today, as it would have faced 220 years ago, is what relgious viewpoint should dominate government. Granted, the majority of Americans have always been Christian, but being a Christian can mean many things. There have always been Catholics and Protestants. Amongst the Protestants, there have always been a multitude of sects.

Amongst the adherents of any particular sect, different people within the sect adhere to the rules differently. There are Catholics who go to mass every Sunday, have large families, and follow most of the other Catholic rules. Are the view points of only the strict adherents to dominate government, or are the viewpoints of the moderate adherents supposed to have any weight?

[edit on 22-9-2007 by hotpinkurinalmint]

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by Redge777

 

The Jefferson Bible (the four Gospels collapsed into one text) is the one I turn to, to get to the gist of Christ's teachings without all the hocus pocus getting in the way. It is not disrespectful of Jesus in any way.

"How can anyone who reads the teaching of Christ support the Lies of Bush, and the lies are the least of his actions." Redge777

Amen brother amen.

I feel removing spiritual elements from the story keeps the morals but denies the divinity of Christ, it also denies the existance and the impact the spiritual world has in our lives. That is why I do not respect it.

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by Redge777
the main religion of the founding fathers was reason. This really matches their masonic, enlightenment. They believed in the santicty of mans thought.

where some may see that as evil, I would see that as a truly wonderful foundation. If we were really founded on christian beliefs, this would not be the free country it is

Christian beliefs, Love your God, Love your Neighbor, thats about it. Jesus teachings are ways and examples of how we can do this, including warnings of what I call evil and how it can lead you away.

I posted here my thoughts if you are interested in hearing more of them.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you truely believe in the rational then let me ask you this. You are at the junction of a train track, you control the train comming down the track and must put it on one of the two tracks that branch off. A 5 year old girl is tied on one train track, on the other train track is two 21 year old men.

This question is used to specifically gauge ability to guage a persons normal societal empathy vs simple rational thinking. Everymoment you cringe hesitate have to think you are not being rational, the rational decision is one that any Nazi that figured the work value of a person could easily make.

My point is living in the rational allows for atrocity. rational removes the value away from the one every person is given through our love of our neighbor, for me that love is spiritual and comes from Jesus Christ.

Hitler wanting a master race is very rational (assuming you give him the deffinision of what is best) for society sterilizing people with low IQs is rational, for that matter, creating two classes one where you sterialize weak people, creating a stronger ox class, the other where you sterialize dumb people making a smarter rulling class is rational.

Shoot lets get to the reality, kill them at birth, as long as the cost to production and medicine during pregnacy is not above the loss of value of a less then average person existing in society. Ok I think you understand my point, the rational is not the Love that I worship, My Savior.

Free speech individuality and free thought I see as loving.

Some day someone will data mine this post take it out of context and use it to paint me for who I am not, scary thought and off topic

On the Masons: I group most exclusive secretive soceities together, it is their need of secrecy and what I consider elitism that I do not aprove of. This alone does not mean they are evil, just using one of the tools I believe fosters evil. My personal experiances with fraternal (non mason, non fraternity) rituals was that they were occult, I also give meaning to occult symbols even if others do not. I just wish to explain why I have my oppinions. I do believe many people in Secret societies are good, I fear for the directions those societies may take them.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Redge777]

Originally posted by Al Davison
The Domionists and Biblical Literists (sometimes refered to as "Fundamentialist") are, in fact, different from the Taliban only in terms of which theology they have chosen.

Radical religious fanatics who feel that they must force the world (and I mean "force" in all its connotations) are a serious threat to any democracy or republic style of government - a real threat to all people who would choose to live free.

Agreed anyone that would force another to believe as he does has forgotten the first gift the Almighty gave us, free will. If we choose to, he has given us the ability to do good or evil to love him or not. How could we even think he would want us to take that gift away from another.

I've asked this many times and I'll ask again: If you believe that your religion is so true then why must you coerce others into following it? Oh ye of little faith. ;-)

I do not believe in coersion, see above. as far as why speak of Jesus, it is simple compassion, we call it saved because that is what we believe it to be. How could I not share the love I have found with another, how could I not want him to understand that. Granted many go to far, and I think some are actually working for the wrong side in their actions, but that is my motive and the thinking of some other Christians.

Your comment on ye of little faith is so true, If Christ wants me to help someone he will put me in the place to do it, he will guide me to help that person. If I chose not to, he will send someone else, it is not me that saves it is God that saves.

If I speak with anger, self importance, self rightousness, or if I am judgemental I am not living in the love he taught me, and that would mean it is not him that I would be serving, even if my words are trying to give him glory my actions would not be. I feel sorry for those that chose to torture people to try and save them during the inquisition, I imagine the Devil got a good laugh at that one, but hey Jesus still loves the torturers, just as he loved the people they strung out on the rack, and lit on fire. And Jesus loved them long before the church decided their mortal fate.

oh I screw up alot and fail, I am glad my Lord has mercy also.

A Christian person speaks about Christian values when he is on stage. A non Christian person does the same thing but lies to gain votes of what he knows is a large section of Christians in America. Lets try and look at their actions not their words, unless the words inspire actions that support the values we hold dear.

kkk claims to be Christian, so did Hitler. Claiming is not the same as doing. So Christian extreamism is as bad as Islamic extreamism.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
The conspiracy here is how the Christian right have hijacked our democracy and turned it to their own purposes.

Unfortunately, democracy is pretty much 'mob rule', and when Christians make up the majority, as they do in the U.S., they win.

That's why the U.S. was founded as and is supposed to be a "Republic" not a democracy. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking the U.S. is supposed to be a democracy, I'll bet the Christian right depends on that common mistake.

In reply to the OP, the Consitution lists the unalienable rights endowed to the people by their Creator, and it doesn't specify that Creator as the Christian Creator. They intentionally left "Christian" out.

As far as Christian symbols and the such appearing in Washington, yes they do, but so do the symbols of many religions and of the occult. The woman sitting on top of the Capitol building is Persephone, Queen of the underworld, just as an example.


This was a quick response, now I gotta read the rest of this thread.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Am I talking about every religion out there. You just proved my point. Vat II, for my religion, states that all religions should seek unity and peace. it states that Atheists can go to heaven if their Good. It also states that all are equal, or the human right to being.

yes... but then you get the other half of christianity that really doesn't say that. and that doesn't apply to catholic apostates (as one i know this).

See any of that in the Koran? Sure it states be nice, but it also states kill if they do not become Muslim through niceness.

...but the killing if they don't become a muslim doesn't actually apply to "people of the book" (christians and jews).

and... again, you're comparing a MODERN document (vat 2) to an ANCIENT document.
try comparing Vat 2 to the bible...

And yes, the bible shows plenty of crap on oppressing women. But do you know when they were written? When the Jewish state was on the verge of collapse, and unity was needed.

...then why did st. paul have to write that stuff too?

Corrupt people calming to be God's messenger wrote down whatever they wanted. That's why you see conflicting statements all over the place. One must seek out the good ones, the ones of unity and peace to all.

then one must seek out the good parts of the koran, the ones that state unity and peace to all.

Today, the Catholic faith says to do 3 things.

1) Obey the 10 commandments and Jesus' Golden rule
2) Reject violence and all forms of oppression.
3) Work for the unity of mankind and his becoming one with God.

and the refusal to accept women as spiritual equals, the oppression of homosexuality, the demonization of modern society, and a disdain for that which can same many lives...

I see none of which the middle East is doing. Thank God for westernized Muslims.

...the middle east is clearly not doing it because of sociological and anthropological reasons. it isn't something inherent in islam anymore than it is inherent in christianity. islam in the middle east today is analogous to christianity in the middle ages.

reply to post by Ingolstadt


the constitution doesn't say anything about inalienable rights given to us by a creator, that's the declaration of independence... which isn't a governing document.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Actually, Muslims enjoy western society, it is their religious leasers who seek out war. You just proved my point again. Muslims SHOULD seek out the good in the koran, but do you see them doing it?

And what exactly did St. Paul write about?

and the refusal to accept women as spiritual equals, the oppression of homosexuality, the demonization of modern society, and a disdain for that which can same many lives...

Women will slowly become spiritual leaders. As I said before, Christianity is entering "stage 5", not in it. it will take time to reform, but in time, Women will become spiritual equals, as the bible claims they are. Reforms take time. And the Muslim world doesn't even have any reforms going on.

Oppressions of Homosexuals? Nope, just rejection of them. Oppression requires actually oppresing, not just bad mouthing. The great majority of the world oppresses them, compares to the US. Words don't hurt, but Iranian revolutionary guards' rifles do.

Stem cells? Use umbilical cords. They got chock full o' stems. Cloning them does good too.

Catholicisms is on a road to reform at least. I see nothing of which going on in Iran. I, in fact, see a restoration of hatred, not reform of it. But hey, if you think you can destroy the same God 75% of the World worships, be my guest. That being Muslims, Christians, Jews, Christian-Buddhists, Eastern Christianity, etc, etc.

[edit on 23-9-2007 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Ingolstadt

 

the constitution doesn't say anything about inalienable rights given to us by a creator, that's the declaration of independence... which isn't a governing document.

Sure, the document that created our government, isn't a government document.