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Liberals, media, and gays need to know how this country was founded!!

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posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Nothing MM imo BUT you have to admit that "atheism" is as much a belief system as any religion. Unless you have some info that is not available to the masses.


here's what an atheist is: someone that doesn't believe in any supernatural entity.

an atheist doesn't believe something....
how is that a belief system?

is my not playing baseball a sport?




posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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And not one person has yet to answer my question:

How would Christians feel about me putting up the Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts in their church with their church's money?

That's what it boils down to -- put yourself in someone else's shoes and see how they feel about something. That's what morality is based on, not religious teachings.

I know the answer, and it's why nobody has said it -- because if they admitted it, they'd have to back down on this subject of putting up religious stuff in the courthouses and other public buildings. They wouldn't like it. It would offend and upset them to see some other religious precepts installed in their church at their expense.

But again, it's all about what's right for Christians, and to hell with everyone else in the country.

And people wonder why I appear to be anti-Christian.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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MM, let me start off by saying that i AGREE with you...the religious stuff does NOT belong in public arenas. That being said, your example is slightly flawed. Why? Because by stating that if "they" can put up the 10 commandments in a courthouse, how would "they" like it if you put up something in their church....you are basically claiming any & all public arena as YOUR church. This is just not so. I think the TRUE analogy would be if christians can put up the Commandments in a courthouse, you should be able to put your "beliefs" right next to them. That, my friend, would be an equal action. And I, for one, would LOVE to see that!!



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 03:38 PM
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Let's destroy all the churces in France like the Talibans did to the giant Buddha Statues in Afganistans.

Let's bomb all symbols of religions.



posted on Sep, 18 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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I think those trying to discredit the words of the founding fathers supporting religion forget one MAJOR thing. The great majority of them were of universalism. That said, people who believed in the bible, God, etc, but HATED corrupt organized religions. Therefore, their speech is aimed at the immature Papal authority, and the backwards way of Europe at the time. This is BEFORE the modernization of the Christian churches. They hated other religions because they showed bigotry, hatred, etc, and they hated Christian stupidity of bigotry. They were more believing in Jesus' message, then the authority of the churches.

Watch, They believed in Jesus and God's laws:

"Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was
founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

But no the organized religious folks:

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion"

"The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system"

"Religions are all alike-founded upon fables and mythologies."

As you can see, they may have doubted in God and all, but they loved his message. They HATED organized corruption.


As for Franky,




He prayed to "Powerful Goodness" and referred to God as the "INFINITE." John Adams noted that Franklin was a mirror in which people saw their own religion: "The Catholics thought him almost a Catholic. The Church of England claimed him as one of them. The Presbyterians thought him half a Presbyterian, and the Friends believed him a wet Quaker." Whatever else Benjamin Franklin was, concludes Morgan, "he was a true champion of generic religion." Ben Frankin was noted to be "the spirit of the Enlightenment".

David T. Morgan, "Benjamin Franklin: Champion of Generic Religion." The Historian. 62#4 2000. pp 722+
Case closed.



P.S. to modsL Sources on one


[edit on 18-9-2007 by Gorman91]



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 05:06 AM
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Christians are ruining the United States. The Founding Fathers understood that if one religion thought itself to be the one and only religion it would negatively effect the religion itself, and once that said religion tries to take over the government of "We the People", the government will also be negatively effected.

Have some fun reading the following quotes;


"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion". ~ Thomas Paine


"The number, the industry, and the morality of the Priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total seperation of the Church and the State." ~ James Madison - a.k.a. 'The Father of the Constituition of the United States of America'


"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy." ~ George Washington


“The appeals court has reaffirmed both common sense and the Constitution, No American should enter a courthouse and feel like an outsider because he or she does not share the judge’s religious beliefs. No judge should be free to use his or her power over people’s lives to subject them to his personal religious proselytizing.” ~ People For the American Way President Ralph G. Neas


"I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute—where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote—where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference—and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him." ~ JFK - A Dictionary of Quotations. 1989


"Attempts to unite church and state are opposed to the interests of each, subversive of human rights and potentially persecuting in character; to oppose union, lawfully and honorably, is not only the citizen’s duty but the essence of the Golden Rule–to treat others as one wishes to be treated." ~ Liberty Magazine


"The bloody rise of theological politics in the Islamic world, and especially in Iraq, reminds us how rare and fragile an achievement the separation of church and state really is." ~ Rabbie Eric Yoffie Union for Reform Judaism


"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
~ Thomas Jefferson



The following 2 quotes come from the American Library Association's First Amendment of the Bill of Rights to the United States Constitution Resource webpage


“The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.” — Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)


“First Amendment freedoms are most in danger when the government seeks to control thought or to justify its laws for that impermissible end. The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.” —Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, Ashcroft V. Free Speech Coalition (00-795) 198 F.3d 1083, affirmed.


Corey Mondello
Boston, Massachusetts
CoreyMondello.com



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 05:22 AM
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My turn My turn

Ok I am a follower of Jesus Christ and believe Christianity is more then being good, it is a personal, spiritual relationship with God.

Ok that being said you know my point of view.

I do not consider the founders of this nation, nor the current rulling elite to have believed in the teachings of Christ.

In God we trust is not a pro Christian saying, look it up, it makes a claim to any God, a supreme being, but not which god. It specifically is said it was meant to show the pluralism of our nation (except athiests)

Jefferson actually made a new bible taking everything out that was spiritual since he was a firm believer in the rational (deist). Although they did not mention in front of the masses, the main religion of the founding fathers was reason. This really matches their masonic, enlightenment. They believed in the santicty of mans thought. I personally believe this denial of Christ to be occult in a similiar way that the current leaders worship owl idols with cerimonies and claim to be Christian to fool the spoon fed masses.

How can anyone who reads the teaching of Christ support the Lies of Bush, and the lies are the least of his actions.

God Bless have a great day



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by Redge777
 


The Jefferson Bible (the four Gospels collapsed into one text) is the one I turn to, to get to the gist of Christ's teachings without all the hocus pocus getting in the way. It is not disrespectful of Jesus in any way.

"How can anyone who reads the teaching of Christ support the Lies of Bush, and the lies are the least of his actions." Redge777

Amen brother amen.

[edit on 19-9-2007 by grover]



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by Redge777
the main religion of the founding fathers was reason. This really matches their masonic, enlightenment. They believed in the santicty of mans thought.


where some may see that as evil, I would see that as a truly wonderful foundation. If we were really founded on christian beliefs, this would not be the free country it is - starting right away from freedom of religion, so therefore freedom of speech, and most likely freedom of assembly, media, etc. It would have been a totally different story altogether.

About equating Bohemian Grove with Masonry, well - that's just not accurate. Plus, the current president was never a mason, he was in fact an anti-mason. That's what the Skull and Bones were originally founded as, a counter to the influence of masonry, and that is where I would see "evil," if I believed in such a thing. I see it on a spectrum, as opposed to a lightswitch.



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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I think what the founders meant by that is that they believed in the obvious universal moral laws that Jesus thought. Tolerance, love, cooperation, giving, etc: you know, just be nice to other people. I doubt they believed in the Catholic nonsense.



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 05:19 PM
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The Domionists and Biblical Literists (sometimes refered to as "Fundamentialist") are, in fact, different from the Taliban only in terms of which theology they have chosen.

Radical religious fanatics who feel that they must force the world (and I mean "force" in all its connotations) are a serious threat to any democracy or republic style of government - a real threat to all people who would choose to live free.

Equating a belief in a Supreme Being of any kind with a belief in the concept of a divine Jesus is simply a convenient corrumption perpetrated and perpetuated by Christians seeking power.

I've asked this many times and I'll ask again: If you believe that your religion is so true then why must you coerce others into following it? Oh ye of little faith. ;-)



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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WOW Al, you're so wrong.

Christians: : love thy neighbor as thy self
Muslims: Blow up your neighbor and thy self.

Muslims need a reformation like Christians did. All other religions are superior to Islam in my opinion. For all other mainstreams say peace. It's only the leaders that corrupt this.



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Islam is not a religion, it's a conquest strategy. If all these pro-terrorist, anti-war wimps on ATS multiply, I would be converting myself to Islam. It's a safe bet against people who have no concept of danger even when threaten on a daily basis via terrorist websites and 9/11.

People who never learn should be teached a lesson, this is where I would join the army of Islam, no hesitation to wipe any of the wimps out after they realize, negotiations and "conversation" won't solve the world's problem.



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 07:15 PM
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Oh so macho.... be still my beating heart.



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by chickeneater

People who never learn should be teached a lesson



So true...



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by TheBandit795
 


Ya know what I have never been able to figure out is why (some) newbies on here have to be so belligerent and arrogant at the beginning.

I have noticed this several times now and it always amazes me.



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
WOW Al, you're so wrong.

Christians: : love thy neighbor as thy self
Muslims: Blow up your neighbor and thy self.

Muslims need a reformation like Christians did. All other religions are superior to Islam in my opinion. For all other mainstreams say peace. It's only the leaders that corrupt this.






that's quite the flame, if I do say so myself.

[edit on 19-9-2007 by scientist]



posted on Sep, 19 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by scientist






that's quite the flame, if I do say so myself.

[edit on 19-9-2007 by scientist]

I've been known to cause Jihads



But what I said is true. For the short time after the Christian reformation, Christianity was actually doing what it preaches, until it went up and down in corruption. Vat 2 put it kinda sorta in a good position.

Every religion goes through 5 stages:

Stage 1: Creation
The religion is founded. If it takes hold, it will spread quietly throughout its founding region.

Stage 2: Conflict
The religion will be attacked by, or attack, other religions. This can sometimes lead to the religion's death, or its strengthening through unity.

Stage 3: State Religion
The religion will become state approved, and enforced. Either forcefully, or through better message, the religion will become dominate in the state

Stage 4: Corruption
The religion is used to corrupt the state. Killing non supporters, and virtually halting all scientific movement. Putting the civilization with the religion in stagnant, or even moving backwards.

Stage 5: Rebirth and Reform
The religion is reborn through mini-revolts, or new leaders. It will reform for the modern age, and progress forward into a welcoming Religion, rather then an oppressive Religion. If a religion makes it this far, it can never be destroyed.

Currently, Christianity is just entering Stage 5, but Islam is just leaving Stage 3 and entering Stage 4

[edit on 19-9-2007 by Gorman91]

[edit on 19-9-2007 by Gorman91]

[edit on 19-9-2007 by Gorman91]



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by chickeneater
Islam is not a religion, it's a conquest strategy.


wrong, it's a religion.



If all these pro-terrorist, anti-war wimps on ATS multiply, I would be converting myself to Islam.


yes, because being against war and supporting terrorism at the same time makes COMPLETE sense.

...apparently not enjoying the death of countless innocent civilians to protect the easy access to resources of global superpowers makes me a wimp...
wow.

honestly, you're just being immature here.
and you just called muhammed ali a wimp...
that's very ironic.



It's a safe bet against people who have no concept of danger even when threaten on a daily basis via terrorist websites and 9/11.


yes... because an event that happened 6 years ago threatens my life to this very day.
you can choose to live in paranoid fear, i choose to not give that power to those that make threats.



People who never learn should be teached a lesson,


people that didn't pay attention in grammar class should be taught a lesson as well.



this is where I would join the army of Islam, no hesitation to wipe any of the wimps out after they realize, negotiations and "conversation" won't solve the world's problem.


well, if we take your route we'll all end up dead, so i guess that would be ONE way to solve the world's problems

...oh, and i applaud the ad hom attacks.


Originally posted by Gorman91
WOW Al, you're so wrong.

Christians: : love thy neighbor as thy self
Muslims: Blow up your neighbor and thy self.

Muslims need a reformation like Christians did. All other religions are superior to Islam in my opinion. For all other mainstreams say peace. It's only the leaders that corrupt this.


...so very wrong. try reading a koran and properly looking at islam instead of evaluating it by judging less than 1% of muslims and applying it to the whole religion

i'm all against islam, but it's not any worse than christianity or hinduism.


Originally posted by Gorman91
But what I said is true. For the short time after the Christian reformation, Christianity was actually doing what it preaches, until it went up and down in corruption. Vat 2 put it kinda sorta in a good position.


yes... it was preaching a gospel of prosperity and labeling those with doctrinal disagreements as the antichrist.

and vatican 2 only deals with half the christians in the world...
and you forget what directly followed the reformation... the catholic church's bloody counter reformation and the age of religious wars



Every religion goes through 5 stages:

Stage 1: Creation
The religion is founded. If it takes hold, it will spread quietly throughout its founding region.

Stage 2: Conflict
The religion will be attacked by, or attack, other religions. This can sometimes lead to the religion's death, or its strengthening through unity.

Stage 3: State Religion
The religion will become state approved, and enforced. Either forcefully, or through better message, the religion will become dominate in the state

Stage 4: Corruption
The religion is used to corrupt the state. Killing non supporters, and virtually halting all scientific movement. Putting the civilization with the religion in stagnant, or even moving backwards.

Stage 5: Rebirth and Reform
The religion is reborn through mini-revolts, or new leaders. It will reform for the modern age, and progress forward into a welcoming Religion, rather then an oppressive Religion. If a religion makes it this far, it can never be destroyed.

Currently, Christianity is just entering Stage 5, but Islam is just leaving Stage 3 and entering Stage 4


wrong, look at america, it's entering stage 3 or 4 there...



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Gorman's stages of a religion are actually originally from Aristotle and deals with cultures and civilizations.... Arnold Toynbee and Oswald Spengler in the early part of the 20th century made them popular but I doubt he has read those guys... I have though.

[edit on 20-9-2007 by grover]



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