Conspiracy of the Beast

This thread is devoted to uncovering the secrets of the end times. As most of you know already, the year 2012 is not only a hotbed for conventional conspiracies, but Christian groups are hailing it as a possibility for the apocalypse.

Twelve is a christian number. The beast is given 7 years of power, half that (3.5 years) to be ruled by the 'whore' and then the final 3.5 years as the ruler of the world. It is unclear whether the whore is a place or a person. If the beast is given 7 years of power, and the expected date of destruction is Dec 21 2012, subtracting 7 from 2012 takes us to Dec 21 2006. Six is a satanic number, as we saw when the remake Omen came out on June 6 2006. December 21st was when Barack Obama and perhaps other politicians were elected to office in the last election.

Arguments against - if the child that was born and caught up to god before the devil (dragon) could destroy him, then 1/3rd of the stars in the sky would have been destroyed by the tail of the Dragon. I live in a city and light pollution keeps me from seeing the stars even on a clear night. I am not good enough at astronomy to know whether the constellations and stars are different in Israel and whether it's in that biblical area that stars may have been destroyed.

Arguments for: False Prophets, false Christs. If these are the end times, all the preachers who preached the year 2000 are the false prophets, since no one can know the time nor hour. False Christs - Rev Sun Moon and more recently Dr. Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda. Miranda claims to be 'Man Christ' and has 666 tattoed on his arm. One of my friends has been partially taken by Miranda, claiming he is one of the good people, when obviously the man is evil. He also listens to Jack van Impe, who claims to be a blibical prophecy expert, but all that is irrelevant. He can't proclaim the time nor hour. It goes beyond televangelist slime.

The evil people are in positions of power and wealth. The average have good teeth, no problem smiles. The very worst have sharp teeth, as if they had filed them. I saw an image on the net with sharp teeth and I was very disturbed.

As a conspiracy I seek to know the inner workings of the Beast and his cohorts/servants

If there is anyone who calls this board and works with the demons please have the strength to tell us about your experiences and what you know.

I am not good enough at astronomy to know whether the constellations and stars are different in Israel and whether it's in that biblical area that stars may have been destroyed.

If you can make it out to the deserts of the southwest, I can assure you, the stars are just fine. Millions of them as far as the eye can see.

As far as the inner workings of the Beast - the only thing I can grok is that whomever made up the end times prophecy must have really been interested in getting people to fixate on it as opposed to focusing on the endless beauty and wonder of the natural world.

"Eyes on words, not on Stars" so to speak.

What better way to make God envious as harnessing the power of subversive ideas to sway one from the childlike wonder of the Universe.

Just two cents there.

Good luck on your quest.

hi Johngardner1/
Interesting subject for the past so many years, as well as the early first years of the book of Revelation.
Revelation was read in Church in the early years of it being written, but was stopped because so many people had their own versions of what the interpretation of 'Revelation' really meant.
In Greek, Revelation is 'Apocalypse'
Apocalypse means something that will be revealed.
We cannot interpret on our own what Revelation means because we will come to different conclusions of what the Scripture of S.John is telling us.
for example...the Stars that fall from heaven is known to mean.......The 'faithful' followers will fall from grace at the end of times.
The faithful could be the priests as well as the leaders in the Church leading the people....
We cannot take 'Revelation' as being something each of us can interpret because not only Faith is needed, but prayer and fasting and being a true follower of Christ.
When the Apostles asked Christ to exorcise a demon, He replied fasting and prayer was needed to do just that.
We have the many signs pointing to the end of times, but we keep searching to fulfill our own ideas of how it would ultimately end.
The Antichrist means he will be the opposite of Christ.
He will imitate Christ in every way and do more so that he gains the popularity needed for his success.
His clever way will be to give man his needs on this temporary earthly life.
Be it money or power, he will do what it takes to have mankind serve him and his evil followers..
He will have a certain time to do this, after which he will truly reveal his true intentions to his followers and the whole world.
He will succeed only with those that are worldly thinkers and not with those that are soul searching.
His appearance into the worldly scene will be great because he will be elected by the people as a problem solver and world leader.....
It is also known in Scripture, that the Two Prophets(the two candlesticks ? spoken of by Christ)......Elijah and Enoch will come at the same time or just before the Antichrist makes his appearance to warn the people of the deception and evil ways of the Antichrist.
They will have the power to preach for 3 and half years and be able to control the weather so that people will listen to them.
They are known to have been taken into the 'Heavens' and later to return at the end of times , this will also see the two Prophets get murdered by the Antichrist at the same place Jesus Christ was crucified...later a terrible earthquake will destroy many.

just my thoughts on the matter...

helen

As a Christian, I feel obligated to believe in the supernatural. If it progresses biblically, one third of the stars should have been destroyed by now if 2012 is indeed the end of the world. Maybe it's just another crack pot crazy person spreading the rumors.

reply to post by johngardner1

As a Christian, I feel obligated to believe in the supernatural. If it progresses biblically, one third of the stars should have been destroyed by now if 2012 is indeed the end of the world. Maybe it's just another crack pot crazy person spreading the rumors.

The reference to 1/3 of the stars

Rev.8:10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star
from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11.And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12.And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened and the day shone not for a third part of it and the night likewise.

Wormwood is another of Satan's names. He is the "great star" that falls (actually gets kicked out by Michael) from heaven.

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Satan is the great star Wormwood and he will be bright and beautiful, as the morning star but so very deceitful. He comes to earth as anti-christ which is misinterpreted and is actually "instead-of" Christ. He will fool many as they will think he is the true Christ. We must know that the true Christ comes "after the workings of Satan" and not worship the beast.

The references to the third part of the stars, etc. are those that will follow him when he arrives and do his work now. The "stars" aren't literal stars but are a metephor. God gave us the sun, moon and stars as signs (Gen.1:4). We should be able to read those signs and this verse tells us to look for darkness, evil and bitterness coming over people.

I'm sure seeing that now.... how about you?


......Whirlwind

Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by johngardner1

 

As a Christian, I feel obligated to believe in the supernatural. If it progresses biblically, one third of the stars should have been destroyed by now if 2012 is indeed the end of the world. Maybe it's just another crack pot crazy person spreading the rumors.

The reference to 1/3 of the stars

Rev.8:10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star
from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11.And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12.And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened and the day shone not for a third part of it and the night likewise.

Wormwood is another of Satan's names. He is the "great star" that falls (actually gets kicked out by Michael) from heaven.

Luke 10:18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Satan is the great star Wormwood and he will be bright and beautiful, as the morning star but so very deceitful. He comes to earth as anti-christ which is misinterpreted and is actually "instead-of" Christ. He will fool many as they will think he is the true Christ. We must know that the true Christ comes "after the workings of Satan" and not worship the beast.

The references to the third part of the stars, etc. are those that will follow him when he arrives and do his work now. The "stars" aren't literal stars but are a metephor. God gave us the sun, moon and stars as signs (Gen.1:4). We should be able to read those signs and this verse tells us to look for darkness, evil and bitterness coming over people.

I'm sure seeing that now.... how about you?


......Whirlwind

Your argument is compelling but the dragons tale was to have wiped out a third of the stars with his tail. This seems pretty non-metaphorical to me.

Originally posted by johngardner1
As a Christian, I feel obligated to believe in the supernatural. If it progresses biblically, one third of the stars should have been destroyed by now if 2012 is indeed the end of the world. Maybe it's just another crack pot crazy person spreading the rumors.

The Anti Christ hasn't shown up yet,or He has and We don't know it. When He shows Himself,It'll be the last 7 Years before the end of the World. Christians will be taken up by Jesus before this Happens.

Hi BigDave/
I do hope that you are not refering to The Rapture?

Christians will be taken up by Jesus before this Happens.

All people will be on earth when Judgement begins of the ''Living and the Dead''(those who have died before the end of the World,will rise to be judged according to ones deeds)
There is no mention of being taken up in the air to be safe from all that is happening.
As Christians,we are to follow in Christs footsteps, as the Apostles have done......'take up your Cross and follow me' were the Words of Christ.
This means that those people who are strong enough to live through all the destruction and chaos, will be here to encourage others with their faith and Hope that Jesus Christ promised 'I give you my Kingdom' If you follow me.
Our 'end' of this world can come at any time with each individual person...of that Hour and day know one knows.....this is why we must be ready at all times.
It is said that before the end of the World and the Antichrist appearance, many shall die because they will not be able to withstand all that is happening and will lose their faith.
The Rapture is a new concept and not anything in what the Apostles wrote of in the early texts.
It is not recommended to be believed because many will assume that they are safe and will be taken away from all that is happening......this concept is absurd because it shows that God will let some suffer and some guaranteed a 'quick pass' to the Heavens.
This is not so.
The early teachings of the Fathers say that Elijah and Enoch who lived throughout the Old Testament and did not Die,shall come back and die a cruel death after they preach to the whole world about the end of the World and the appearance of the Antichrist.....they shall not escape in the air but be killed by the followers of the Antichrist.
helen

Ok, lets say if there was really a 'Rapture' would it be fair to say that those people who are 'born again' Christians(this concept did originate in this group)living at the time of all the chaos be allowed to escape and taken up, whilst all people remaining will be put through torture or other means because of their belief in Faith, Hope and Love?
What about all those children and innocent people of horrific crimes,eg/
rape and physical abuse?
Did they not deserve to have had that chance in life to be taken away from such circumstances, before it was allowed to happen?
Why would one consider themselves to be 'special' in a way that others have not had that chance?
The Rapture is for people who make themselves out to be better then non believers or better then other people because it is the easy way out....
All will be judged fairly according to Gods Law and not mans.
God does not stop crime but allows each person to make a choice.
We have a choice and we do it knowing that every choice has a consequence, be it good or bad......some of us learn from our mistakes, whilst others repeat their choice in life.

helen

Originally posted by helen670
Hi BigDave/
I do hope that you are not refering to The Rapture?

Christians will be taken up by Jesus before this Happens.

All people will be on earth when Judgement begins of the ''Living and the Dead''(those who have died before the end of the World,will rise to be judged according to ones deeds)
There is no mention of being taken up in the air to be safe from all that is happening.
As Christians,we are to follow in Christs footsteps, as the Apostles have done......'take up your Cross and follow me' were the Words of Christ.
This means that those people who are strong enough to live through all the destruction and chaos, will be here to encourage others with their faith and Hope that Jesus Christ promised 'I give you my Kingdom' If you follow me.
Our 'end' of this world can come at any time with each individual person...of that Hour and day know one knows.....this is why we must be ready at all times.
It is said that before the end of the World and the Antichrist appearance, many shall die because they will not be able to withstand all that is happening and will lose their faith.
The Rapture is a new concept and not anything in what the Apostles wrote of in the early texts.
It is not recommended to be believed because many will assume that they are safe and will be taken away from all that is happening......this concept is absurd because it shows that God will let some suffer and some guaranteed a 'quick pass' to the Heavens.
This is not so.
The early teachings of the Fathers say that Elijah and Enoch who lived throughout the Old Testament and did not Die,shall come back and die a cruel death after they preach to the whole world about the end of the World and the appearance of the Antichrist.....they shall not escape in the air but be killed by the followers of the Antichrist.
helen

Yep,I was referring to the Rapture.

Matthew 24 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



Matthew 24
Signs of the End of the Age
1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Your argument is compelling but the dragons tale was to have wiped out a third of the stars with his tail. This seems pretty non-metaphorical to me.

Rev.12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

We know from Rev.12:9 that the dragon is Satan and he is the one that "drew the third part of the stars of heaven". The question is, what are those stars and when did that happen?

That part of the scripture is reference to Satan's first rebellion and those that followed him, 1/3 of God's children - the "stars of heaven".

There was an earth age before our present time, the one in which the dinosaurs lived. We, as Christians, know there will also be an age after this one. In that first age Satan was loved by God but he rebelled and took many, 1/3, of God's children with him. God destroyed that age, not the earth, at least not completely but it was greatly shaken and flooded.

God didn't kill His children but started a new age and all souls must be born of woman during this age and make their decision on the one they will follow, God or Satan.

There are several places in the Bible that God tells us about that first age but the first is at the very beginning:

Gen.1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

It didn't say when that beginning was and as science shows it has to be millions, if not billions of years old. In the 2nd verse it says, "and the earth "was" without form" but that should have been translated as "became" without form. Most modern bibles footnote that correction.

So...the earth "became" void - that was when God destroyed that age. In the last half of vs. 2 we see when this present age began:

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Satan rebelled in the first age and many of God's children followed him as many will again in this age when he comes at the end of days. Are the 1/3 of Rev. 8, we discussed before, the same souls as the 1/3 of Rev.12 that followed him in the first age? I think they are.

God tells us that: And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last." Luke 13:30

To me that means that both God's elect and Satan's 1/3 will be here at the end of this age. They shall be last and make the stand.

If you would like further documentation on the first earth age I would be glad to provide it.



..........Whirlwind

reply to post by BigDaveJr

Yep,I was referring to the Rapture.

Big Dave I'm afraid there will be no rapture. The only thing that can approach it is the 2nd Advent of Christ but that happens after Satan comes to earth to deceive.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
26.And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christ, the true Christ, comes after the tribulation of Satan. Satan comes pretending to be Christ and will fool many. Satan's tribulation is one of peace and prosperity and he will kill, but it is a spiritual death done with deceit and lies. We must wait for the true Christ or we are no longer "children of God".

So.....if you want to believe in a rapture at least be prepared in case there isn't one. Know who comes first!



.............Whirlwind

Originally posted by whirlwind

Big Dave I'm afraid there will be no rapture. The only thing that can approach it is the 2nd Advent of Christ but that happens after Satan comes to earth to deceive.


.............Whirlwind

Luke21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man

As in the days of Noah........

The danger is not thinking thinking there will be a rapture that doesn't happen. The danger is not watching and being ready when it does. There will be no second chance for those that have no oil in their lamp.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sun Matrix]

Our end is near...but the world will probably have to wait.

Within a split second, on the ride home from work/school or wherever it is I go, a semi-truck could slam into the driver's side door of my car and I'm dead. That's it. That's my end. When it comes, God knows when, then it's my responsibility to have already known for certain where I'd be spending all moments after that. If you don't know but want to, feel free to U2U.

As for the world, I'm sorry, I've not seen numerology shake down well as far as Chrisitian prophecy is concerned. In fact, accounts of divination sought by 'sages' and witches in the Old Testament caused disaster. Astrology, numerology, phrenology were not means to meet up with God rather competitions for God as He has told us to come to Him for wisdom, not our own ability to interpret signs.

We're not going to know when and will add this support as well:

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come." - Mark 13:31-33

So...do you believe Christ is right? ...or not?

[edit on 14-9-2007 by saint4God]

Again your argument is compelling, but it is an argument based on metaphor. The bible is explicit as it counts the formal and ritualistic destruction of the world. The stars falling are an integral part of Revelations.

However, we can argue further on this subject. Let's say it happens your way. Are plagues and disasters all metaphorical too?

I wonder if the anti Christ was born somewhere on the planet on June 6, 2006? This would mean about 30-40 more years left. I'm not sure how old the anti Christ would be.

Originally posted by cloakndagger
I wonder if the anti Christ was born somewhere on the planet on June 6, 2006? This would mean about 30-40 more years left. I'm not sure how old the anti Christ would be.

He isn't going to be "born". Anti-christ is actually a misnomer and should be "instead of christ". It is just a role Satan plays. He comes to earth pretending to be Christ and he will fool many.

We are in the end of days. Christ told us that when certain signs happened, especially as given in the parable fo the fig tree. Those in that generation would be in the end.

Generations in the Bible are 40, 70 and 120 years. The parable of the fig tree was about Israel becoming a nation, which it did in 1948. So....we passed the first marker in 1988, the next two are 2118 and 2068. However, it didn't say at the end of that generation just during that generation. It could happen anytime. There are a few things that must be fulfilled but they will come in a fast and furious sequence.

Be ready and know that the fake comes first. Don't be taken!



............Whirlwind

reply to post by johngardner1


Sun Matrix,

I just noticed an odd thing. Your post doesn't show on this thread as the others. I just noticed it when replying to John Gardner. It is as follows:

Luke21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man

As in the days of Noah........

The danger is not thinking thinking there will be a rapture that doesn't happen. The danger is not watching and being ready when it does. There will be no second chance for those that have no oil in their lamp.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by Sun Matrix]

I agree in that the danger is not being ready, with enough oil, or truth, to carry them through. My fear is that many don't know the truth as they are being taught they will be raptured. Consequently, they will be unprepared for what will happen when Satan comes to earth pretending to be Christ. He is coming specifically for Christians:

Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Christians are those that have the testimony of Jesus Christ and God warns:

Rev.9:14....If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation;.....

If the dragon is coming to make war with us then we will be here, not raptured. It is imperative that we, as Christians, know that Satan comes first. We must not believe his lies (his mark in our forehead).


.........Whirlwind

reply to Wirlwind

If the dragon is coming to make war with us then we will be here, not raptured. It is imperative that we, as Christians, know that Satan comes first. We must not believe his lies (his mark in our forehead).

The antichrist does NOT come before a rapture(harpazio)
Jesus said "watch" for you know not when the son of man cometh.
He did not say, watch for the antichrist.
Also he said the laodocean church will be vomited into the tribulation.