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Conspiracy of the Beast

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posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by johngardner1
Again your argument is compelling, but it is an argument based on metaphor. The bible is explicit as it counts the formal and ritualistic destruction of the world. The stars falling are an integral part of Revelations.

However, we can argue further on this subject. Let's say it happens your way. Are plagues and disasters all metaphorical too?


We are seeing plagues and disasters now and they are anything but metaphorical. Will it become worse? Probably, I don't know.

There are famines now and they are quite real but they are also metaphor.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord.

12.And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

13.In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.


That time is now. Even in churches you may hear one or two quotes of scripture but the rest of the time is filled with music, asking for money, a speech about how to live a good life, etc. God's Word was to be read when people met, not man's word. Today, as you read on ATS, young people are thirsting for knowledge but what they find are myths, study of pagan religions - junk. They hunger and thirst but are not being fed God's Word, truth.

God teaches using metaphor, analogy, etc. Because there are really stars doesn't mean they can't also be fallen angels. A seed is often used. It can be a true seed but it is used to show how truth can spring forth from it and grow. (many false religions seem to believe a seed is money - it grows for them).

So....yes, I believe there will be and are plagues and disasters but many times they are also used metaphorically. Our world will not be destroyed as this is where God will be.

Rev.21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The time of that scripture is the eternity. The new heaven and earth is the new AGE - the same earth and heaven but the 3rd age. ("first" as used in that scripture should have been translated as "former", as in the following vs. 21:4)

Many of the terrible sounded events of Revelation should be taken in a spiritual context. For instance:

Rev.6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Death is another of Satan's names. Notice that "power was given them". Who gave that power? God did. It is a time of testing for His children. Hunger is spiritual hunger as they are not being fed His Word and death is also spiritual. Not our physical bodies could die but our souls. The beasts of the earth could be the power given to Satan to deceive us if he is able.

Satan is prince of this world and the powers he uses are Finance, Education, Politics and most effectively - Religion.

There will be a literal great shaking, especially in Jerusalem. This happens when the true Christ appears but remember what also happens then:

1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52.In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Christ arrives at the 7th and last trump. Will we be changed before or after His cleaning earth of evil things? Also realize that as children of God, if we stayed true and do not fall for Satan's deceit, we will not be harmed anyway. As Noah went through the flood, as the 3 Hebrew children were not harmed, as Daniel was thrown in the lion's den and not harmed, etc., etc., etc.,............We stand on the Rock and He loves His children - why would He harm us?


.............Whirlwind




posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by agoodshot
15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.




Originally posted by whirlwind
Rev.8:10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star
from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11.And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.



If time travel were invented tomorrow and we were going to find out exactly what happened, I'd get down to a bookies and put a tenner on the fact that these paragraphs were referencing a nuke in the only way the authors knew how.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by C.C.Benjamin]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 



WW -
If the dragon is coming to make war with us then we will be here, not raptured. It is imperative that we, as Christians, know that Satan comes first. We must not believe his lies (his mark in our forehead).


ClearSkies -
The antichrist does NOT come before a rapture(harpazio)
Jesus said "watch" for you know not when the son of man cometh.
He did not say, watch for the antichrist.
Also he said the laodocean church will be vomited into the tribulation.


The anti-christ, or Satan, comes to earth first. He comes pretending to be Christ, hence the name "instead-of Christ".

We are warned of this in places in the Old Testament and Jesus Himself told us in three of the gospels. I'll select some from Matthew:

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, 'Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'"

The wheat is still there when the tares are gathered, not raptured away.

13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50.And shall cast them into the furnace of fire....


The just are still there when the wicked are taken, they were not raptured.

24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

We must wait until the end.

24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso-readeth, let him understand


We will see the abomination, we will not be raptured.

21.For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We will experience Satan's tribulation which is lies and deceit, disguised as peace and prosperity - he is pretending to be Christ.

22.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: for the the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

By "no flesh" it means so many will die a spiritual death because they follow Satan. Note that the elect are still here, not raptured.

29.Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

After the tribulation of Satan this happens.

30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Why would all the tribes of earth mourn when they see Yeshua? Because then they will realize they have followed Satan, they were deceived.

Clear Skies, there is no rapture. Yeshua did say "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." (Matt.25:13) That is true but He isn't saying if He comes before or after Satan there, just to keep watch. In Matt. 24:29 He tells us it is after Satan.

You said, "He said the laodocean church will be vomited into the tribulation". I find, in Rev. 3:16, where He said, "I will spue thee out of My mouth", but I can't find anything about the tribulation. Please quote the scripture so I can understand.

Thank you.............Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 10:25 PM
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The antichrist does NOT come before a rapture(harpazio)
Jesus said "watch" for you know not when the son of man cometh.
He did not say, watch for the antichrist.
Also he said the laodocean church will be vomited into the tribulation.

I meant that the rapture is a mystery, not meant to be pearls cast before swine,(not you, whirlwind) It takes God to show people mysteries. we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. The dead in christ will rise and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo);to sieze, catch away, pluck, pull, take by force.
(WE will come back with him to wage war.)
The Philadelphia church, read it , says that after God says he WILL spare them, because of thier love for him, that they hear a voice as a trumpet saying come up hither and he would show them what would happen. (The same as the scripture that says the trump of God would sound and we would be taken to Jesus)
After that, the Laodocean church is given verdict and as soon as she is out of the picture, the antichrist on the white horse comes in.


The anti-christ, or Satan, comes to earth first. He comes pretending to be Christ, hence the name "instead-of Christ".

Yes, Jesus doesn't SET foot on earth in the rapture.We are called to him and noone sees his 'stealing' of us. No one sees him, but us. The darkened souls of the earth will say that the earth has cleansed herself of us (those who would not conform) The age of aquarius.The new age,etc...


We are warned of this in places in the Old Testament and Jesus Himself told us in three of the gospels. I'll select some from Matthew:

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, 'Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'"
The wheat is still there when the tares are gathered, not raptured away.

These are those saved DURING the tribulation and the lost.


13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50.And shall cast them into the furnace of fire....


The just are still there when the wicked are taken, they were not raptured.

24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

We must wait until the end.

24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso-readeth, let him understand


We will see the abomination, we will not be raptured.

21.For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We will experience Satan's tribulation which is lies and deceit, disguised as peace and prosperity - he is pretending to be Christ.

22.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: for the the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

By "no flesh" it means so many will die a spiritual death because they follow Satan. Note that the elect are still here, not raptured.

29.Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

After the tribulation of Satan this happens.

30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Why would all the tribes of earth mourn when they see Yeshua? Because then they will realize they have followed Satan, they were deceived.

ALL of these are the tribulation peoples. They will SEE him coming THAT time and mourn. All of the elect will be made 'elect' after they are converted.



Thank you.............Whirlwind
YOU're very welcome!



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind


Why would all the tribes of earth mourn when they see Yeshua? Because then they will realize they have followed Satan, they were deceived.


All tribes will mourn because a rapture will occur at the Last Trump. Those left on earth will now experience the wrath of God that begins on the Day of the Lord. They will mourn. All the saints are in heaven at this point.




Clear Skies, there is no rapture. Yeshua did say "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." (Matt.25:13) That is true but He isn't saying if He comes before or after Satan there, just to keep watch. In Matt. 24:29 He tells us it is after Satan.


There will be a rapture. If you understood nothing beyond knowing the unchanging character of God this would be understood.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He saved Noah from the flood and he saved Lot from destruction. Those that are counted worthy will not experience Tribualtion. They should be in tribulation and trials right now.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 12:51 AM
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One thing for sure, I see the earth inhabitants as being more and more confused and lost.

There's hardly anyone with common sense nowadays. Everyone is PC and scared to offend anyone.

Christian countries like England have become secular and christians are being ridiculed, I sense the beast is smiling.

it's all a blur.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 



I meant that the rapture is a mystery, not meant to be pearls cast before swine,(not you, whirlwind) It takes God to show people mysteries. we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. The dead in christ will rise and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo);to sieze, catch away, pluck, pull, take by force.


We will be changed but that doesn't happen until Christ comes and He tells us that He only comes at the 7th trump.

11 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

The apostasy will happen before Christ returns. The apostasy is the tribulation of Satan, when Christians who have loved Christ all their lives will change their faith (falling away). No Christian would willingly or knowingly allow that to happen so we know it is done with deceit. Satan will be pretending to be Christ and those that haven't been taught or aren't expecting it will be taken.

2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12.That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


God sends the delusion. He tells us what will happen in the letter He wrote us and those that listen instead to false preachers or false doctrine (had pleasure in unrighteousness), will be damned.


WE will come back with him to wage war.


He comes here and brings His army of those who have passed before us, with Him. Those that did not fall for the lies of Satan will join that army but it is here.



The Philadelphia church, read it , says that after God says he WILL spare them, because of thier love for him,


Yeshua does love Smyrna and Philadelphia, the only 2 out of the 7 that He found no fault with. However, it is because of what only those two teach, not just because they love Him.

Rev.3:10 Because thou has kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

What keeps them from the "hour of temptation?" Knowing His Word, they kept His Word and that Word, the truth, knowing Satan comes first will allow them to overcome - not be taken away.

3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of My God...........

You can't overcome if you aren't there.


that they hear a voice as a trumpet saying come up hither and he would show them what would happen. (The same as the scripture that says the trump of God would sound and we would be taken to Jesus)
After that, the Laodocean church is given verdict and as soon as she is out of the picture, the antichrist on the white horse comes in.


The trumpet doesn't happen until the next chapter and it is John, the writer of Revelation, that is "in the spirit, and taken to heaven. I can't find where a verdict is given or where the church of the Laodiceans is out of the picture.


Yes, Jesus doesn't SET foot on earth in the rapture.We are called to him and noone sees his 'stealing' of us. No one sees him, but us. The darkened souls of the earth will say that the earth has cleansed herself of us (those who would not conform) The age of aquarius.The new age,etc...


That is not Biblical.


ALL of these are the tribulation peoples. They will SEE him coming THAT time and mourn. All of the elect will be made 'elect' after they are converted.


The elect have been elect before they were born in this age:

Romans 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30.Moreover whom He did predestiante, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.


Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:

I hate to argue with a fellow Christian but please consider these scriptures. As I have said before, even if you still believe in a rapture please be prepared in case there isn't one and know that Satan comes first. Do not be taken.


.........Whirlwind



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