I think someone I know has been bainwashed by his church

reply to post by the titor experience



I think you're actually making my point. YOu dont' believe because God has not called you: you will wander in the dark forever, but this is what you want anyway.

I know you must consider yourself free. The truth however is that you are a slave to your depraved mind. no doubt a slave to pornography too. You think that you make choices for yourself but you don't, your body completly cantrols you every action you make. my guess is that you are comepletely addicted to masturbation. why you ask? its because of your extreme hate for the truth, nothing of witch you are even slightly educated on.

By the way I noticed that you are from Australia. Last time I checked your God for saken land was about 75 to 80% desert and becoming more of a desert each day. Every one crys out to God when they are dying! you won't be any different!

Uh...what? What was that all about Graystar? Please review Matthew 7:1-5 for both of our sakes. I think it would be appropriate to apologize for those prejudices/assumptions.

[edit on 2-9-2007 by saint4God]

Nick I've met people like you have described many times, and yes, its a form of brain washing, or "letting other people think for them" as another person said, and yes they try to convert you to their holy roller ways.

The common term for this is evangelizing.

These types of villians travel the world to convert people of all nations, they are not unlike the mormons, only I do believe mormons know when to shut the hell up.

Note they always use the "burning in hell" bologna and always say "oh but god has forgiven me" hogwash.

Good luck not running into anymore of the religious throwbacks.
For many years I have only encountered them here at ATS, among the paranoids and schizophrenics and deluded fantasists. Religion is organized mental illness.





[edit on 2-9-2007 by Legalizer]

Originally posted by the titor experience
Wow. The Preachers are out in force on ATS at the moment.

The roosters start crowing before sunrise.

Originally posted by the titor experience
The height of arrogance is the creation of god in our own image - a god who is so fallible that he "condemns" people and has the human failings of causing pain to others if we do not do as he says.

The height of foolishness would be to create a god in one's own mind who doesn't live up to his own standards.

Originally posted by the titor experience
i would rather burn in the scorching hot pits of hell in a pool of my own faeces and vomit than for a single moment live in the kingdom of a murderous, hateful and venegeful god such as yours.

With that same reasoning, I'm sure you wouldn't approve of law enforcement who would convict a murderer after he committed the very act before your eyes.

You like justice as long as it isn't served on you. It's natural.

It's why the entire law hangs on that one commandment.

Originally posted by Graystar
reply to post by the titor experience

 

I think you're actually making my point. YOu dont' believe because God has not called you: you will wander in the dark forever, but this is what you want anyway.

I know you must consider yourself free. The truth however is that you are a slave to your depraved mind. no doubt a slave to pornography too. You think that you make choices for yourself but you don't, your body completly cantrols you every action you make. my guess is that you are comepletely addicted to masturbation. why you ask? its because of your extreme hate for the truth, nothing of witch you are even slightly educated on.

By the way I noticed that you are from Australia. Last time I checked your God for saken land was about 75 to 80% desert and becoming more of a desert each day. Every one crys out to God when they are dying! you won't be any different!

What is it with Christians and sexuality?......lol did not take long for you to get to topic of masturbation.....must be all that repression......i love the truth, thats why i have 2 degrees a masters and continue to study while working full time to increase my knowledge of the world - i can never know too much!

Yes i live in Australia.....ummm yes a lot is desert, a lot is not - thanks for noticing?

Can you hear me back there in the BC years?

Originally posted by the titor experience
i love the truth, thats why i have 2 degrees a masters and continue to study while working full time to increase my knowledge of the world

One once said that heaven and earth would pass away, but his words would not. Whose words are more important? If those words outlive heaven and earth. Whose words are the truth? Whose knowledge do you love?

Does a man of understanding love the sinking ship more than the life boat?

Originally posted by the titor experience
- i can never know too much!

One can never know too much, but one can know everything, if he seeks him.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by WiseSheep]

Originally posted by WiseSheep


One once said that heaven and earth would pass away, but his words would not. Whose words are more important? If those words outlive heaven and earth. Whose words are the truth? Whose knowledge do you love?

Does a man of understanding love the sinking ship more than the life boat?

Wait wait......are these the same words spoken by the guy who said the following-

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: 12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12


Happy to be in what you consider ignorance my friend.

Your God is a major a**hole, not to mention a fruit loop

[edit on 4-9-2007 by the titor experience]

reply to post by saint4God


i just wanted to thank you for thoughtful insight and non judgemental responses in this thread. It is breath of fresh air to hear a honest and informed response free of the usual bible slinging mixed with insults.

Christianity at its heart, the teachings of jesus, is really a beautiful thing, Not so different from buddha's teachings or thos of ghandi and many other masters, teacher and others who seem to be divinely sent have conveyed.

but christianity as a religion is full of dogma and rhetoric and men using it in the name of their own power, money and fame has been so twisted it is often totally twisted from its original teachings.

I have no problem with christianity , I even think jesus was a truly divine being, one who should be studied and emulated, I do however have a prolem with his followers and their leaders especially in many cases.

i do not for one second believe he is the only way to peace, heaven or whatever you want to call it. You cant convince me that someone who is a truly kindhearted, loving person who lives in an ethical way will be denied anything for following a different path.

When someone i barely know begins preaching to me, trying to convert me, reading passages from the bible and telling me i an damned to hell i totally shut down, become uncomfortable and want to cover me ears and say lalalalala.
just like i would if they were telling me their life story or about some weird medical condition they had.

I find it highly offensive that in doing so they are telling my that my beliefs are intrinsically inferior and wrong without even knowing what they may actually be. It is an arrogant narrow minded way to live in this diverse world.

Is the fear of damnation really a good reason to be a christian and believe in jesus?
doesnt that make it a very selfish act to then be a christian.
One should be a good person for the simple value of being a good person, not fear of burning in hell.

Would it not be more effective or more appropriate to wait until the person shows some interest in conversion.
or to say "hey do you want to come to church with me this weekend, I think you would really like it." give them the chance to discover it for themselves.
Or even better to lead such a wonderful life of goodness and kindess and empathy that other will automatically look to you for guidance and information.
Lead by example not your words.

When did religion become something pushed on others like a vacuum cleaner or used car.

I love to engage in religious conversations, debates and discussion. But only if it is a two way respectful exchange, this is hard to come by.


My typical response when confronted my a missionary trying to convert me is
"no thank you"
if that doesnt work and they arent backing off i simply tell them
"I am really glad you found god/jesus but i wasnt looking"
rude?
possibly but sometimes it is the only thing that works.
this gives me enough opportunity to escape the conversation or stuns them enough to leave me alone. I don wish to be preached at by anyone, especially not in public and unsolicited.

Originally posted by the titor experience
Wait wait......are these the same words spoken by the guy who said the following-

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: 12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

The problem is, It would be a waste of precious time trying to do the impossible and talk law with you.

For you to be brought to the conclusion that GOD and his law is righteous. It would be like a wolf in this present age being brought to the conclusion that lambs are not tasty.


This requires a supernatural work in you. One that the carnal man cannot grasp. No amount of studying and no amount of ritual will get one there. If you ever get it, it will be because the creator had mercy on you and gave it to you.

Originally posted by the titor experience
Happy to be in what you consider ignorance my friend.

Would anyone have known that Saul of Tarsus would have been given sight one day? Back at the point he was overseeing the murdering of* christians? Who would have taken the time to sow a seed in him?

With GOD all things are possible.

Originally posted by the titor experience
Your God is a major a**hole, not to mention a fruit loop

One thing I do appreciate is one who lays them self bare before everybody. Certainly makes one easier to read than the ones running around dressed as sheep.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by WiseSheep]

I would like to add my brother's experience. We are Jewish, but are not religious. When my brother was at work, there were 2 religious Jews who were looking for someone to pray with them. They asked my brother and he politely said 'no, sorry, I'm not religious and I am working right now'. They then asked again and again, trying to joke around and convince him. Again, he politely denied. They then pulled out $10 and said 'you can pray with us in the elevator, and we'll give you $10, and you can quickly put on the necessary clothing'.

At that point my bro got angry with his tone. I can't say I blame him. How many times must you say no in a polite way?

Just wanted to show that it's not only Christians that are 'pushy' for lack of a better term.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by quintar]

It seems in my time dealing with these types, they want you to beleive what they do in fact beleive. I understand that. I was in a church that needed people to come to it so it could survive. We would have a barbecue or some type of outting and have the people from the church bring in others to it. We would pray before the meal and maybe sing some songs and just let others who did not belong to the church show them from our lifestyle that we where in fact good people, we believed that it was up to god , not us, to convert them. Although we had bible college sudents who always where trying to evangelize and get people to think like them. I have seen it again and again. People who evanglelize not taking in account that god works not in what the preach, but what people see in them. So to see pushy people come out and try to get converts like that is not what god intended. They have to come freely. I have been in allot of churches and have seen the niceties and have seen the outright fraud. Its like they want you to become apart of there club. I think also they do try to hard to convert you. They get this good news and then so much want to talk you about what they have learned they fall over themselves trying to in there mind help you. In most cases you have to calm them down and let them know that when the time comes for you to know god will show you.

[edit on 9/4/2007 by zman]

[edit on 9/4/2007 by zman]

Originally posted by gluetrap
i just wanted to thank you for thoughtful insight and non judgemental responses in this thread. It is breath of fresh air to hear a honest and informed response free of the usual bible slinging mixed with insults.

I appreciate the compliment and agree we should be able to talk about these things without slinging mixed with insults.

However, this points out the shortcomings of everything I've said:

Originally posted by gluetrap
I even think jesus was a truly divine being, one who should be studied and emulated, I do however have a prolem with his followers and their leaders especially in many cases.

i do not for one second believe he is the only way to peace, heaven or whatever you want to call it.

Apparently I've been too much the crowd-pleaser and not enough a servant of the truth.

Originally posted by gluetrap
When someone i barely know begins preaching to me, trying to convert me, reading passages from the bible and telling me i an damned to hell i totally shut down, become uncomfortable and want to cover me ears and say lalalalala.

Why do you think that is?

Originally posted by gluetrap
I find it highly offensive that in doing so they are telling my that my beliefs are intrinsically inferior and wrong without even knowing what they may actually be. It is an arrogant narrow minded way to live in this diverse world.

I'd agree that's offensive, arrogant and narrow minded.

Originally posted by gluetrap
Is the fear of damnation really a good reason to be a christian and believe in jesus?

I don't think so, I think someone should come to God out of love. One is a better servant when they love their boss rather than fear him.

Originally posted by gluetrap
doesnt that make it a very selfish act to then be a christian.

Becoming a Christian usually is a selfish act. Once at the door however, it's supposed to be left on the welcome mat.

Originally posted by gluetrap
Would it not be more effective or more appropriate to wait until the person shows some interest in conversion.

When do you suppose that would be?

Originally posted by gluetrap
or to say "hey do you want to come to church with me this weekend, I think you would really like it." give them the chance to discover it for themselves.

We agree here.

Originally posted by gluetrap
Or even better to lead such a wonderful life of goodness and kindess and empathy that other will automatically look to you for guidance and information.

Excellent idea, though it doesn't happen as often as a lot of us may think.

Originally posted by gluetrap
Lead by example not your words.

That's what the book of James says, but more specifically lead by example, not only your words.

Originally posted by gluetrap
When did religion become something pushed on others like a vacuum cleaner or used car.

Probably the day the Great Commission was misunderstood.

Originally posted by gluetrap
I love to engage in religious conversations, debates and discussion. But only if it is a two way respectful exchange, this is hard to come by.

I'm with ya. U2U me anytime as well.

Originally posted by gluetrap
My typical response when confronted my a missionary trying to convert me is
"no thank you"
if that doesnt work and they arent backing off i simply tell them
"I am really glad you found god/jesus but i wasnt looking"
rude?

Sounds honest to me. And, "no thank you" should be more than sufficient.

Originally posted by gluetrap
possibly but sometimes it is the only thing that works.
this gives me enough opportunity to escape the conversation or stuns them enough to leave me alone. I don wish to be preached at by anyone, especially not in public and unsolicited.

Fair enough I think.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by saint4God]

Helloooo believers! Take a lesson from zman here:

Originally posted by zman
...we believed that it was up to god , not us, to convert them.

I have seen it again and again. People who evanglelize not taking in account that god works not in what the preach, but what people see in them. So to see pushy people come out and try to get converts like that is not what god intended. They have to come freely. I have been in allot of churches and have seen the niceties and have seen the outright fraud. Its like they want you to become apart of there club. I think also they do try to hard to convert you. They get this good news and then so much want to talk you about what they have learned they fall over themselves trying to in there mind help you. In most cases you have to calm them down and let them know that when the time comes for you to know god will show you.

With that in mind, "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15

"Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ." - Acts 5:42

Fellow believers, put down the stick, the prejudices, the self-righteousness and go among your brothers and sisters of the world (who are also sinners as we are) and be a friend.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." - John 13:34

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

See you at the finish line saints.


[edit on 4-9-2007 by saint4God]

reply to post by nickh


There are some people who are so entrenched in faith that they don't know how to exist outside of it. And they are threatened, and trained to reel everyone in they can. While the Bible tells people to go out and recruit, many take it as a personal mantra.
I think it is because they think they will earn brownie points.
So they don't feel alone in their faith.
And whatever other reason.

But what they don't realize is that they are overzealous to where they drive people off. You can quote stories all day long, doesn't make someone want to join.
I always said that if Jesus really wanted people to go out and recruit, he would of made his followers better salesmen.

The church I have the greatest respect for is the Mormon church. When my husband and I were in deep trouble and needed counseling, they offered us counseling without having to be mormon. If we were too broke it would of been for free. While they would not be able to discuss some things because of their beliefs, they never ever forced it. And they respected us, and the counselor was really good to boot.
Now, they offered us help, friendly as can be, never expected anything in return(we paid a small fee according to our budget) and never preached. Now, those are folks who care about the people, and therefore, if I were to convert, I would choose them, simply because they didn't push, and they were genuinly willing to help you without anything in return.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by nixie_nox]

SIGH... that really comes close to harassment.

If someone asks me about religion I tell them that spiritual matters are the most private thing you can experience, more private even than sex. Because, with sex, unless you are masturbating there is always at least one other... in your approach to the divine it is you and your heart alone.

Then I ask them if they go around asking people about their sexual practices?

That usually shuts them up.





[edit on 4-9-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by gluetrap
I have no problem with christianity , I even think jesus was a truly divine being, one who should be studied and emulated,

See below.

Originally posted by gluetrap
I do however have a prolem with his followers and their leaders especially in many cases.

I'd suppose if you got right down to it. You have the problem with his followers who are simply misled at the time you come in contact with them. The life of following the shepherd is a continual change. For the better.

The others in your category would be those who simply name his name, yet have no clue who he is. Their fruit is a result of that.

Originally posted by gluetrap
i do not for one second believe he is the only way to peace, heaven or whatever you want to call it.

Small problem here as a result of the first section that I quoted of yours.

To say that he should be studied and emulated is beautiful. If anyone studied and emulated Jesus. They would know him.

However, he specifically said that he is the only way to "whatever you want to call it". Let's call it life because that is what it is.

Now he said he was the truth. HE HIMSELF said that HE is the TRUTH.

If you don't believe he's the only way, yet he said he's THE TRUTH. Do you still want to recommend studying and emulating him?

Originally posted by gluetrap
You cant convince me that someone who is a truly kindhearted, loving person who lives in an ethical way will be denied anything for following a different path.

I wouldn't dare try to convince you, because you couldn't convince me either. The question is, who is truly kindhearted and loving?

Originally posted by gluetrap
When someone i barely know begins preaching to me, trying to convert me, reading passages from the bible and telling me i an damned to hell i totally shut down, become uncomfortable and want to cover me ears and say lalalalala.

It's no doubt offensive. If a man is told that he will be punished for something he hasn't done. You are mighty right. That would be offensive.

If a man is made to understand what exactly it is that he has done wrong and he understands why he'll be punished. Then it starts to make sense. If he's then made to understand that one took and paid his punishment for those that go through him.

If a man be drawn to that understanding and reject it, well he's guaranteed nothing.

Originally posted by gluetrap
I find it highly offensive that in doing so they are telling my that my beliefs are intrinsically inferior and wrong without even knowing what they may actually be.

Since you have already posted your beliefs concerning Jesus, well we'll go from there. See above^^

Originally posted by gluetrap
Is the fear of damnation really a good reason to be a christian and believe in jesus?
doesnt that make it a very selfish act to then be a christian.
One should be a good person for the simple value of being a good person, not fear of burning in hell.

Does a parent desire to have kids who only show them affection because they are terrified of what the parent would do to them if they didn't?

or.

Does a parent desire to have kids who love them because they first loved the child?


What does a child deserve who's parent has done nothing but good to them, yet the child rejects and completely disowns the parent?

If the child feels sorry and returns to the parent, does he really deserve forgiveness, or is he at the mercy of the parent?

Jesus said that if any man come to him he will in no way cast him out. You can reject him, but that's your own doing.

Originally posted by gluetrap
Would it not be more effective or more appropriate to wait until the person shows some interest in conversion.

Not necessarily when that which is in someone is their own enemy and will fight to keep them from knowing the truth.

Originally posted by gluetrap
When did religion become something pushed on others like a vacuum cleaner or used car.

Because that is what religion is. An attempt to bind by force.

I fell into the same trap thinking "I" could make people see the truth. Can't do it. It's GOD's work.

What we are told to do is state the truth. Those who hear will hear.

Originally posted by gluetrap
I don wish to be preached at by anyone, especially not in public and unsolicited.

I didn't either. There was always something though. Can't explain it.



Here's one chew on. Would a man in his right mind plant an apple seed in his yard and go out the next day with a bushel basket expecting to leave with a harvest?

Now if one knows anything about trees. The faster a tree grows the less likely it is to stand the test of severe weather. Compare say, pines with oaks.

Think about trees sometime. There's a lot to learn from them and everything else he made. He made with deep reasoning.

[edit on 5-9-2007 by WiseSheep]

Originally posted by gluetrap
I do however have a prolem with his followers and their leaders especially in many cases.

I have a question concerning this.

Does the follower of one have multiple leaders?

What happens if a follower has a follower and the follower stumbles and falls?

Well, It just is sad that people still are doing this kind of stuff. If you have certain religious beliefs, that is fine, but should not try to make someone believe in the same thing. It is way too easy to brainwash some people these days. Life, it seems, is just way to short to be religious. It just seems to get people in trouble. OP, I think it is better that you will not be seeing that guy again, he sounded like a real winner.

Originally posted by paigcal
Life, it seems, is just way to short to be religious.

Life is just way too short to care about an afterlife.

I never worry about the afterlife I think it is important to live in the here and now. Why would I worry about a silly thing like the future and when I die(or after I die)? I do not think it really matters, as I do not believe in heaven and hell and all that. I do think that there is so much than that.