Are we talking about about plants here like the coca plant, the cannabis plant, and the poppy flower??? Good Lord - Just the name calling of of these natural and innocent life forms as "Drugs"(whatever the powers that be would have you believe that means) is the greatest conspiracy of them all. If this is what you are talking about then shame on you ATS! If not then please clarify!!

I have seen far worse and damaging things discussed here that would make any parent's head spin. There must be a very specific reason for this censorship and because it's not for the kiddies just is not convincing me. Did one of your sponsors threaten to pull out or something??

Now look what you've done. You've gone and created a conspiracy within a conspiracy discussion site. I don't know what to think now!!


[edit on 2-1-2008 by CyberTruth]

what the duck above me said; i second all of it all the way. guess i didn't really have much of a reason to post on this thread, i just wanted to show my support and agreement with TheDuckster's quacking.

It's just a crying shame that intelligent discussion is going out of the window. Where people decide what we can and cannot talk about...

I will obviously adhere to ATS rules, but cannot help feeling that other topics like 'computer hacking, abuse, murder, incest, racism, sexism' etc can be freely disussed here without challenge, yet the discussion of drugs is a terrible taboo...

If for example a thread is created about the pentagon hacker, is that not a discussion about illegal activity? In my opinion it is... Yet those posts go unchallenged by the masses.

Also where is the line drawn between drug abuse and drug use?
There's a vast difference, but we have been brainwashed into thinking all drugs are the same and all are bad.

Also, for all the people who say 'well go and talk about it on another forum', I don't think they understand that MAYBE people just want to talk about some topics between the ATS community.

Why not have a secure area JUST for that topic, whereby it is keenly moderated???

Anyway, that's just my opinion, I'm not challenging anybody here and wouldn't want to offend our masters, sorry moderators.

(but for all the people too afraid to discuss this 'terrible' subject, I suggest going out and burning your music collection).

Wow,

When I first came to ATS - A few years back under another Identity (another story another time - I was not banned) I found it very refreshing to be able to discuss such a wide range of topics and I understood from the get go that much of what was said was speculation & BS. Still I found it highly entertaining & sometimes very informative.

What I really admired was the way the site allowed people talk about such a wide range of topics - some which exposed truthfully bad things in our world and went against the MSM.

As we know good leaders become corrupted by corporations & greed after becoming elected it seems a great off the wall site may fall a notch by becoming more like the MSM corrupted by greed of the need to be liked by everyone and follow the status quo.

While I still find this a great site & I'm greatful to be here to read & post I find this current thread a little disturbing.

Though I don't agree with the owners fully, I do understand it is their site and they have every right to do as they see fit. BTW - I know this isn't a democracy here and I fully respect that & also agree with 99% of your ideas which have made this a great site.

For the remainder of my stay here I will try to respect those rules. However for this one thread I will say my 2 cents. I hope I'm not banned because of it.

Being a conspiracy site though - here we have a conspiracy within the site itself - You could almost say the XXX has taken over the site or is indirectly influencing the content of this site, so no one can expose their dastardly behavior - with the anti-discussable subjects they may be involved with. But hey that's just a conspiracy.

It seems the site owners have become more interested in DISNEYFYING the content of this site in order that children, people from companies and countries that promote censorship in order to attract more visitors and get higher marks on the pop charts? Is that really what this site has become? Watered down in order to take part in a popularity contest - in order to achieve X?

I call that a sell out & lowers the level of credibility of what this site is supposed to be about.

Of course I can agree to no nudies & no open legalization type discussion and I do agree there are plenty enough of that elsewhere. A blanket policy so we can't write about x-organization that used x-substance in order to take advantage of x-population in order to achieve x-conspiracy really stinks.

Again I admire all you have done to get to this point & done well you have. Thank you for the great site & thanks for letting me speak my peace. Good Luck & I hope you achieve your goals to become whatever your dream is for your site.








[edit on 3-1-2008 by verylowfrequency]

To Verylowfrequency and freeborn

Thankyou that is exactly what I was trying to say...

If a high ranking police officer is willing to discuss it in the public forum, then why should we be restricted on a site with a tag thats states 'Deny Ignorance'

Since when did that mean backing down and shying away from a subject?
This is indeed a possible conspiracy!

I am not going against the rules and regs here, but bowing down to filters and censorship isn't cool is it? Can you see why some people are maybe thinking that even this site is vulnerable

Maybe some neutral ground, for independent thoughts and opinions (not a Pro's vs cons arguement), but maybe a discussion room, for issues regarding legality and historical use etc...

But we don't need patronising into silence.
I too am shocked at this display of 'nannying'...

EDIT - just read the above post and I'm horrified that people are openly supporting paedophilia and nothing is being done about it... yet any post that even mentions the word Drug is thrashed by a mod.

Hmm?







[edit on 3-1-2008 by mr-lizard]

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Why not have a secure area JUST for that topic, whereby it is keenly moderated???

Those who have recently (past 3-4 weeks) initiate threads that attempt to approach certain topics with serious intent, will have discovered our new unofficial policy of moving such threads to the "Really Above Top Secret" forum where members must use points to purchase access.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
It seems the site owners have become more interested in DISNEYFYING the content of this site in order that children, people from companies and countries that promote censorship in order to attract more visitors and get higher marks on the pop charts? Is that really what this site has become? Watered down in order to take part in a popularity contest - in order to achieve X?

I call that a sell out & lowers the level of credibility of what this site is supposed to be about.

I'm sorry you see it that way.

Wouldn't it be much easier to simply acquiesce? After all, if we did so, ATS would be a much less popular place... with fewer rules and guidelines, we'd need less staff... with fewer rules and less staff, the site would have much less traffic, and I'd have significantly reduced IT-inspired headaches and expenses.

But let's ask a very serious question (which I think has already been asked somewhere here in this thread, just as my current points have already been made), which would you classify as most important (pick only one):

1) A small site where a few people can free-reign over the most controversial of topics, but no one knows about it and thus never discovers the few important issues.

2) A giant site where thousands can examine important issues (except for a very small handful of topics) where nearly anyone can easily discover the topics and learn things they never before considered.

If you want #2, stick around. If you want #1, there are thousands of other discussion boards that fit that description, and we never claimed ATS is for everyone.

You call it "selling out," I call it "doing it the hard way." And after nearly four years of hard work, and quitting my day-job 14 months ago to devote full-time to this... when someone mentions "selling out," I'm sorry but I take it rather personally.

First of all I understand it is the owners site and they can run it as they please.
This I accept and if I was in their situation I too would run it as I see fit.
As such I will abide by the T&C.

I personally think it detracts from the credibility of the site that it will allow no discussion at all on the legalisation of certain substances when I know there are valid arguements from both sides and the self same discussions are becoming increasingly more common in mainstream forums and areana's.
This is even more curious when other illegal activities, like paedophilia, have been openly discussed without moderator or owner intervention.

This can only lead to perpetuating ignorance; the opposite of the stated aim and goal of the site.

Still, as stated previously, it is the owners site and they do as they see right.

I am a little uncertain about the instruction to use R.A.T.S.
What can be discussed there?
What can't be discussed there?
Who can enter it?
Who can't enter it?

Originally posted by Freeborn
I am a little uncertain about the instruction to use R.A.T.S.
What can be discussed there?
What can't be discussed there?
Who can enter it?
Who can't enter it?

Can/cannot be disussed? - Anything within the T&C's, but in the case of some drug related threads, apparently those issues related to a conspiracy, not personal experiences, etc. Anything not within the T&C's is not allowed.

Who can/can't enter? - All members can enter, but it requires the use of points. The initial cost is 5000 points, after which there is a 250 points monthly renewal fee.

The Member Center contains a link to the ATS Store, through which the purchase to your access can be gained.

RATS is the place where 'sensitive' research can be done outside of public scrutiny since the posts do not appear on the New Threads page unless you have paid the dues.

The quality of posts is everything.

Members who do the research and create thought-provoking posts get applauds. At 500 points each in ATS/BTS and 1500 points each in AP, it doesn't take long to rack up 5000. RATS is available by using combined points from BTS, AP and ATS.

I know for a fact that staff hand out many more applauds than warns. After all, who wouldn't rather make somebody's day for a nice post than spank them for a T&C infraction. 1-liner or BIG quote?

Freeborn I understand where your coming from some of my posts don't consist of more then a couple of paragraphs. Quality not quality can or cannot apply when making a post. Members posting styles differ greatly one member I have a lot respect and time for is incapable of making a post of less then 150 words.

Cheers xpert11.

Originally posted by budski
If there is a policy change regarding these topics, could you clarify for me what is and isn't deemed acceptable.

More like an experimental "rule of thumb" to see how it works out.

Originally posted by Freeborn
I personally think it detracts from the credibility of the site that it will allow no discussion at all on the legalisation of certain substances when I know there are valid arguements from both sides and the self same discussions are becoming increasingly more common in mainstream forums and areana's.

Unfortunately, we've yet to experience any such discussion that remained credible on its own (without extensive staff intervention). Credibility rarely has much to do with your chosen topic, and has everything to do with your material and especially the presentation thereof. I sincerely wish that we could maintain an intelligent and productive thread on these issues, but in my experience on ATS and other digital venues, it has never been possible.


The constant questioning of our clearly defined policy is getting rather bothersome... especially when we need to repeat ourselves over, and over again. So I'm going to summarize our position on these issues as succinctly as possible:

1) ATS's Promise To Our Members: We've promised you an advanced environment, that contains superior search engine optimization, within which to post your most important thoughts, ideas, and theories so that the world may know what you have to say.

2) Content Filtering Prevention: Certain topics, such as illicit drug use, rank at the top of automated content filtering systems. We avoid these topics to ensure that our promise (see #1) is kept.

3) Topical Insanity: Certain topics, such as illicit drug use, attract a segment of users with priorities that are incompatible with "Deny Ignorance" as it applies to the broader spectrum of ATS topics. We avoid these topics in order to avoid encounters with those who may turn away serious members with something important to say on the broader spectrum of ATS topics... in an effort to keep our promise (see #1).

4) This Is Not Censorship: We recognize there may be valid points within the realm of the topics we seek to limit. However, we are a privately owned website and we have determined our promise to the overwhelming majority of our members, combined with the significantly broader extent of incredibly important topics, take precedent.

5) Context Is Everything: We've tried, and sometimes continue to try to allow threads that deal with issues such as drug legalization. As soon as someone posts material that discusses or promotes personal use, we're forced to take action.

6) No Room For Discussion: These are our policies and are among the cornerstone policies responsible for the growth that ensure our promise is working, and continues to work well. No amount of banter, pleading, flaming, spamming, cursing, insulting, or hair-splitting will change these policies.

7) Experimental Rule Of Thumb: Currently, topics that deserve discussion, yet must be removed from public display, are being moved to the "Really Above Top Secret" forum as an experiment. The jury remains "out" as to whether or not this is a successful strategy. This does not mean we allow the discussion of personal drug use within the RATS forum.