Enemies Of Reason, is it propoganda?

reply to post by Xtrozero


Im not saying that its an inferior medicine to homeopathy I am saying that I believe in homeopathy working for me rather than other things. Also a healthy way of living and a total rethink of our life styles needs to be addressed and not just simply eating tablets that ease the pain of our lifestyles that obviously have made us iller!

Homeopathy is just one route that takes us all down the path of altering our mind set and our lifestyles and belief systems to become more healthier. taking Homeopathy and eating unhealthly watching to much TV not getting enough of the out doors wont really make a difference where as doing all that and taking an asprin will cure us of our headache from this lifestyle...! A headache that could be stoped if people were just to think about alternative ways of becoming healthier and taking things that help you as an individual to change your attitude to taking responsibilities of your own lifes. Homeopathy helps/cures and changes peoples lives with the if the unity of the mind and spirit and actions are all taken in taking this responsibilites!

quote]
Yes, I understand from personal experience. That personal experience being graduation from high school.


Then that says it all really doesnt it!

when you graduate from the university of life come and see me.

Sometimes its easier to judge and follow a way of thinking because its easy to do so.. Its easy to see the truth and believe in others factual evidence so people do not have to take responsibility for themselves.. Its easy to just live in denial and let the world spin by and over indulge in things that are bad for us and keep us dumbed.

I suggest that its time to have an open mind, an open heart. (not physcially of course,) but spiritually and find out what your truely about.

Shopping, television, money, fabrications of a life that is so out of touch with who we really are. Homeopathy / medine, this thread is about the docuemtary that was aired on British TV a while ago that made me feel annoyed that so many people would go to their beds believing and being like sheep in congratuating themselves by what they were taught to believe is truth in science and how everything that is mystical cant be explained and therefore isnt real.

But the mini-series is just promoting pharmaceuticals, which isn't better.
That was the real point of this thread.

Let's see....hmmmm, pharmaceutical companies are the top financial contributors to presidential candidate campaigns and many other types of politicians, this gives more freedom with the FDA.

There's thousands of prescription and non-prescription medicine that are horrible for your health and can even cause strokes, like a medicine that a doctor prescribed me for back pain, the companies then say they will launch an investigation on those possible side effects and the results will be given in 4years, in that time they are NOT taken off the market. If they find that they must take it of the market, either they do or they don't. But the news never reports it, because all you see are pharmaceutical ads during the news, they are their biggest sponsors.

There's no money in a cure, and the govt. makes no money out of alternative medicine. So why wouldn't they make a mini-series like this?

Oh boy, here we go again.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

There's no money in a cure, and the govt. makes no money out of alternative medicine. So why wouldn't they make a mini-series like this?

Why not make money off of alternative medicine? Anyone can make or sell aspirin, and it is a huge money maker because it is a great medicine. If you could prove that some alternative procedure or medicine worked SELL IT and make billions. The problem is when viewed under scientific scrutiny they do not live up to their claims, and so they cannot be legally sold with said claims as medicine.



[edit on 29-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by misuneko

Homeopathy is just one route that takes us all down the path of altering our mind set and our lifestyles and belief systems to become more healthier.

I feel you are going more in the direction of faith healing and that I cannot debate for or against since I have seen things that defy the laws of physics and I have also seen many that are just plain scams to get money from the desperate.

Also your sense of homeopathy might be a lot of what I call living a good life.

Either way if there was something that had verifiably success at least as good as normal medicine even if it was a mystery of how it worked the results would be enough, but I have never seen any positive statistical data on success rates done by an independent agency.

Hmmm, I fairly sure that acupuncture was consider "bunk" at one time too, Heathens with pins as I recall, now even some dentist's use it instead of "pharmaceutical" meds

I used to work at a pharmaceutical company, and the funny thing was we would sell 1000 tables for a dollar ( we were a subcontractor )and yes those very same tablets were sold for $40 for 20 tablets, Nope no profit or price gouging there at all, and yes we also did R&D there as well, it was a privately own company so not board of directors or Voting share holders, the Owner would walk his dog thru the plant on weekends as well.

To say these are all "bunk" is not accurate at all, but until some one can figure out Huge profits, it will be labeled as such.........it's all about the Money, treat the symptoms but never give a cure............

[edit on 30-8-2007 by thedigirati]

Your body's own healing abilities

Originally posted by misuneko
Do you doubt your own healing as a human being and put all faith in scientific medicine.

Nobody doubts the body's own healing abilities. Certainly not homeopathic practitioners, because it is on those abilities that they rely for their 'cures' -- the 'medicines' they prescribe are incapable of curing anything.

It is your body's own immune system and regenerative processes that are keeping you alive and healthy now, not the coloured water (or alcohol, or milk sugar) you're buying from homeopaths. Homeopathy works fine so long as you're not really ill; but it will let you down badly when it comes to the crunch. Good luck for that day.

Originally posted by misuneko
when you graduate from the university of life come and see me.

I have the feeling we’re going to entirely different places when we “graduate from the university of life.”

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
But the mini-series is just promoting pharmaceuticals

Are they really?

That was the real point of this thread.

No, the point of this thread was to ask whether “Enemies Of Reason” is propaganda. And the answer is no.

Let's see....hmmmm, pharmaceutical companies are the top financial contributors to presidential candidate campaigns and many other types of politicians, this gives more freedom with the FDA.

There's thousands of prescription and non-prescription medicine that are horrible for your health and can even cause strokes, like a medicine that a doctor prescribed me for back pain, the companies then say they will launch an investigation on those possible side effects and the results will be given in 4years, in that time they are NOT taken off the market. If they find that they must take it of the market, either they do or they don't. But the news never reports it, because all you see are pharmaceutical ads during the news, they are their biggest sponsors.

And this is a serious problem with America, slightly moreso now that it lends credibility to bogus “alternative medecine.”

There's no money in a cure, and the govt. makes no money out of alternative medicine. So why wouldn't they make a mini-series like this?

The government made “Enemies Of Reason”? Really? Would this be the government of the U.S.A., or of Great Britain?

I think its ironic that there are ATS members who will scoff at alternative methods of healing, some of which have testimonials and other corroborating scientific evidence to support their effectiveness ie: cinnamon, garlic, ginger... BUT you happily chase after UFOs which have (arguably) no evidence to substantiate their existance. I am in no way saying UFOs aren't a possibility, I just think you should remember the motto of ATS - Deny Ignorance. Especially in your use of logic.

Originally posted by thedigirati
Hmmm, I fairly sure that acupuncture was consider "bunk" at one time too, Heathens with pins as I recall, now even some dentist's use it instead of "pharmaceutical" meds

Very good point but it also proves my point that when it works it becomes more of a normal medicine. Alternative medicine is a place for everything good or bad that has not been proven yet.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
cinnamon, garlic, ginger... .

Why would we treat these any different than willow bark, or the thousands of other natural substances that we have in real medicine?

I live in a part of the UK that has always attracted spiritual people, new age hippies, musicians, artists etc and I have 2 friends who are "qualified" homeopaths, and my mother is also a "qualified" homeopath, her husband is a spiritual healer and also uses hypnosis for healing, so I speak from some personal experience.

I've found a couple of standard arguments that these people always use.
1) Doctors don't know everything - this kind of implies that they somehow know more than doctors, and I don't think this is the case.
2) How do you know what your body is capable of? - that's a good question, but also a pretty good cop out for not being able to explain the processes homeopaths use.

The have a somewhat mystical approach to not only medicine, but also life in general (spells, witchcraft etc - you know the kind of thing I mean).
This is not to denigrate their belief system, but IMO that's all it is - a belief system. The spirituality, mysticism, healing etc are all intertwined and related in this belief system - and this (so they say) is what you have to buy into for it to work properly.

I have no agenda for or against this, except if it becomes harmful - i.e. if they refuse hospital treatment because they believe that alternative methods are better.

Let me also explain that I have taken some of these homeopathic "remedies" and whilst I can't say they did me any harm, I'm pretty sure they didn't cure me either - my mother tends to try and use us as guinea pigs!

The only alternative medicine that produced a noticeable difference was echinacea, which did work - whether through a placebo effect or not, I felt better.

People who have this belief system tend to defend it quite vigorously (like all belief systems) even though it has no scientific basis.

Another problem is that the NHS are spending large amounts of money on something unproven, money which may be put to better use.

In conclusion, modern medicine has a lot more going for it: the research, the thousands of years spent understanding the human body and many other things.
Advocates of alternative medicine will try and cite the historical use of certain plants, herbs, potions etc etc - and my only answer is this:
If all these remedies were so brilliant, why was life expectancy so much lower before the advent of modern medicine?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by kosmicjack
cinnamon, garlic, ginger... .

Why would we treat these any different than willow bark, or the thousands of other natural substances that we have in real medicine?

Your right.. Why would we? I'm not sure if you're even making a point here. Maybe for the sake of this thread we should characterize alternative medicine as any substance or method that isn't developed or repackaged by a money-grubbing pharmaceutical company to prey on the discomfort and dispair of the average citizen. Guess you know where I stand - yes the video is propaganda.

I AGREE THE VIDEO IS PROPAGANDA!

For the very fact that its is pro science needing factual evidence, uses things use as the Horoscopes in the newspapers to say how people born on certain dates are not like their star sign..! The programme just made me laugh at the stupidity of some of its sources..!

They touch the surface of the true of lots of things spiritual and homeopathy realated but go into no real depth because this programme was propaganda! If it wasnt propaganda i wouldnt be sitting here typing this! I believe in science as much as I do the spiritual side. But i know when something this crazy is broadcast on the TV what the truth is.

Control of society, making us believe this is life, working long hours to make money for bigger companies to make more money! sickening.. and some of you actually sit there and can say open heartedly "I believe that we are living in the truth"

FACT: We are being spoon fed facts that are compeate lies and like sheep we follow and dont even question it!

For the people who are in belief that this programme was not propaganda then carry on walking with your eyes closed, but soon you will come to realise that the veils are lifting very fast now and its time to see excatly what is going on.

Whether you like it or not there will be more people wanting to seek the truth and change how our societies control and manipulate us.
How everything on TV is scheduled by stastics so that they know when to air a certain promo, when to play out a programme, how to advertise using words that touch your emotions and its a chocolate bar they are wanting you to buy! OMG cant anyone see how much control they have over us all...?

Everything we do is catering what the goverment have made us call. "life" we even finish work and get a pay cheque and believe we are "free" to BUY products/cars/clothes etc we have a choice out made to us from advertising agencies who are using their powerful words.. POWER WORDS and we are all sucked in.. Take the Enemy within, ENEMY WITHIN! do you not see how this is negative and juxapositioning it with spiritual or homeopathic or anything for that matter will make us associate it with negative words/ideas....

so all of you who are saying how good this programme is... I ask you to watch it again with a different view.. look at the words within it the way its structured how it caters for making us think "we are right" what we were taught in school is fact we are right... how it puts down this field of work that has miricles and wonderous ideas and beliefs, love and faith and shows us of a "life" that we are all able to have, and we are not because of all the propagada that we are being bombarded with!

Just make sure you see both sides, not just agree with everything we see on TV.. Most TV docos footage is edited together and worded to suit the treatment of the programme so they can show it in a way that doesnt show the whole truth but we still believe! The TV lies!

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I think its ironic that there are ATS members who will scoff at alternative methods of healing, some of which have testimonials and other corroborating scientific evidence to support their effectiveness ie: cinnamon, garlic, ginger... BUT you happily chase after UFOs which have (arguably) no evidence to substantiate their existance. I am in no way saying UFOs aren't a possibility, I just think you should remember the motto of ATS - Deny Ignorance. Especially in your use of logic.

And unless you’re directing that comment at some very specific members commenting on this thread, then your own logic is pretty flawed.

I personally understand that there are some alternative medicines that work, and am on the fence about UFOs.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Alternative medicine is a place for everything good or bad that has not been proven yet.

Quote of the day, right there.

Originally posted by misuneko
I AGREE THE VIDEO IS PROPAGANDA!

For the very fact that its is pro science needing factual evidence

Waid, WHAT?!

Experimentation, i.e. obtaining factual evidence, is critical to the Scientific Method.

If it wasnt propaganda i wouldnt be sitting here typing this!

No. If you didn’t think it was propaganda you wouldn’t be sitting there typing that. And you know what? I’m quickly losing interest in what you type.

I believe in science as much as I do the spiritual side.

Science doesn’t require belief.

But i know when something this crazy is broadcast on the TV what the truth is.

Sure you do, just like you know that homoeopathy works.

Control of society, making us believe this is life, working long hours to make money for bigger companies to make more money!

There are millions of entrepreneurs, contractors and consultants in the USA alone. If anybody’s trying to make people slaves to big business, then they’re failing.

FACT: We are being spoon fed facts that are compeate lies and like sheep we follow and dont even question it!

Sometimes, yes. That’s kind of why this site exists. And you come in here trying to spoon feed us lies of your own.

No. If you didn’t think it was propaganda you wouldn’t be sitting there typing that. And you know what? I’m quickly losing interest in what you type.

if your loosing interest in what i type stop reading it! Also from the Evidence of my Media career advertising career and knowledge of structurising documentaries etc I can safely say that the way this documentary was protraid it was in the vested interest in making scientific fact more credible to the public. which means it has portrayed the other side unfairly and not indepth or else you would of seen a compleatly different documentary!

Sure you do, just like you know that homoeopathy works

yes I do. I work in Television and i am well aware of what i am talking about here. If you are unaware of my understanding then maybe you need to educate yourself about the subject of Documentary making and advertising campaigns to target certain sectors of the public!

There are millions of entrepreneurs, contractors and consultants in the USA alone. If anybody’s trying to make people slaves to big business, then they’re failing.

People do not realise that they are slaves to the system!

Sometimes, yes. That’s kind of why this site exists. And you come in here trying to spoon feed us lies of your own.

Im not telling any lies.. im telling my thoughts... I do not need scientific proof to back up any beliefs I have. And I share these same beliefs with a lot of the population. As do i share some scientific "facts" that ive been told. Quite frankly its sad to see that some people are so closed minded having to firmly set their oppions by what others have told them on the TV. I think keeping an open mind to everything and not to take scientific fact as total Fact,, just to observe and understand that there are two sides of a coin and if a documentary isnt telling both side fairly and is biased then to be suspisious of it.

I AGREE THE VIDEO IS PROPAGANDA!

For the very fact that its is pro science needing factual evidence

Waid, WHAT?!

Experimentation, i.e. obtaining factual evidence, is critical to the Scientific Method.

you miss quoted me.. i was saying that this film was trying to find evidence or being able to prove that homeopathy does work and that astrology etc can be proved using things such as horoscopes out of newspaper cuttings that are obviously not going to be a reliable source that you would put into a documentary if you were showing the other side of the story fairy. ie propaganda!

"Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist."

This documetary was intended in ridiculing everything of spirituality to homeopathy issues. It was intended to shape perceptions using scientific facts and show how this area of interest cant be proven scienfitically and therefore give the desired intent of the propagandist in believing that if science cant make factual evidence of the spiritual world it cant be taken seriously in this world as science cant prove in its methods. Also by using very examples in the spiritual world to portray just a mininal and by no means intire true representation of what goes on in the spiritual circles it showed a unfair argument within this docuementary. It finished gaining the desired intent that it was set out to achieve just by who the narrator was says it all as well...