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Something Strange is happening in the Outer Reaches of our Solar System.

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posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 02:38 AM
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A lot of members are probably aware of the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft anomaly. It has been claimed by some people that this anomaly is easily explained, and some have even claimed such anomaly does not exist.

Here is some of the latest information on this anomaly, which could very well show us that "something is very wrong with our understanding of the laws of physics", or at the end the awnser might be more mundane.

For now we know the anomaly exists, and we will need some more research to find it's origin.



March 28, 2007: Read a letter from Pioneer Project Anomaly project director Slava Turyshev on the status of the analysis of the recovered Pioneer data.
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Something strange is happening in the outer reaches of our solar system. The Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft are not where they are supposed to be. These missions, launched in 1972 and 1973, have covered hundreds of millions of kilometers, .ing toward the edge of our solar system. But something is holding them back. Each year, they fall behind in their projected travel by about 5,000 kilometers (3,000 miles).

Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientist John Anderson and his colleagues have been searching for an explanation since 1980. But as of yet, they have found nothing conclusive; no spacecraft behavior or previously unknown property of the outer solar system can explain the deceleration of the Pioneer spacecraft. Scientists are being forced to consider the unthinkable: something may be wrong with our understanding of the laws of physics. An important line of inquiry will be to study mounds of Doppler (velocity) data and spacecraft status data (like temperatures) that have been unavailable to researchers—but that is about to change.

www.planetary.org...


Focus: the Pioneer anomaly


To date, the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft are the most precisely navigated deep-space vehicles. However, as indicated by their radio-metric data, the Pioneers’ orbit reconstructions were limited by a small, anomalous, constant, blue-shifted, Doppler frequency drift of approximately 6 x 10^-9 Hz/s. The drift can be interpreted as due to a constant sunward acceleration of a_P = (8.74 ± 1.33) 10^-10 m/s^2. This interpretation has become known as the Pioneer anomaly.


Although the most obvious explanation would be that there is a systematic origin to the effect, the limited set of the analyzed data does not support any of the suggested mechanisms. We assert that analysis of the entire existing Pioneer data is vital to understanding the anomaly and, hopefully, to finding its origin. Indeed, analysis of the entire existing Pioneer data record is critical in attacking the anomaly on two fronts: (i) an analysis of the early, not rigorously analyzed, data could yield a more accurate direction of the anomaly and hence might help to determine its origin; (ii) by using the entire data set, from 1972 to 2002, one could study the temporal evolution of the anomaly and determine if it is due to on-board nuclear fuel inventory and related heat radiation or other mechanism.

www.issi.unibe.ch...

Who knows, at the end of this research maybe we will find there is a more mundane explanation to this anomaly, but this could very well show us that we do not understand as much about the laws of physics, or even our universe as we thought we knew.

Personally, I would say there is much we really do not understand about the Universe, and there is much we will get to discover, which should very well change much of what we think we know.

We are living in very interesting times heh?

Anyways, i thought I should be sharing this.

I am looking forward to the Third Pioneer Explorer Collaboration meeting which will be held on February 18-22, 2008, at ISSI, Bern, Switzerland. We will know more about what they discovered after that meeting.


[edit on 13-8-2007 by Muaddib]




posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 03:01 AM
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Thanks for the post, I was doing some research on Pioneer and Voyager last week.

I love the idea of a new physics model to explain the anomaly, but I don't think it would be practical to investigate it. Keep in mind that Pioneer is a very old piece of equipment. I don't remember exactly when NASA stopped getting data from it, but it's age probably has alot to do with it.

From what I understand, the effect is very small. Could be human error as well.

But the universe is a big place, maybe we don't understand it completly.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 03:33 AM
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this is amazing, some thing holdingnus back, the probibilty of interference from another race of aliens is massive i would think, is it possible that gravity can work both ways ? pull things or push stuff away ? how about a massive electric force acting like a magnet ? Ill have to look into this.


Take Care, Vix



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 03:34 AM
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this is amazing, some thing holdingnus back, the probibilty of interference from another race of aliens is massive i would think, is it possible that gravity can work both ways ? pull things or push stuff away ? how about a massive electric force acting like a magnet ? Ill have to look into this.


What about some one/thing protecting us, we all know that if there is other life out there its got a good change of beign hostile, maybe we are safe in our lil corner of the universe and we'll eb let out by this supreme being when were ready (not talkign about god, by the way)


Take Care, Vix


(sorry for double post, can any oen fix that >?)

[edit on 13-8-2007 by Vixion]



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 04:03 AM
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Wow. Quite a revelation for me, anyway.

The first thing that came to mind was the closed universe theory, and perhaps some outward intervention of our presence being with held from certain "off limit" areas.

Maybe this entire solar system really is just a holding pen for our species until we get our collective feces together (pardon the vulgarity, but it's quite late and I'm quite lucid at the moment).

Whatever the reason for this anomoly, it'll keep several thousand scientists employed a bit longer in the space program.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 04:31 AM
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I find it very interesting that the same acceleration has been observed on both Pioneer probes. This suggests that the same cause is behind both. If only one probe was exhibiting this behaviour, then we could likely conclude it was some kind of mechanical deficiency, like leaking a small amount of gas or something.

Whether the anomaly is due to a shared mechanical problem, a new law of physics, or an invisible object, like dark matter gravitational effects... who knows? I'd love to find out, though.

Anyone know whether the Voyager probes also show this anomaly? I am not aware of any other probes that are as far away as Voyagers or Pioneers.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 04:31 AM
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WEll i believe i have a simple solution. The spacecraft is hitting more dust/water vapour particles and are getting slowed down...



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 04:44 AM
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Remember the angel with a flaming sword at the edge of eden?

The intelligent life in the universe is building a barrier to keep us in to prevent mankind from contaminating paradise.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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Anyone know whether the Voyager probes also show this anomaly?


As I understand it, trajectory data from the Voyagers can't be used because they are three axis stabilised spacecraft that fire thrusters to maintain the correct orientation with respect to target objects. Those thruster firings introduce uncertainties in the tracking data that would mask the effects of the "Pioneer anomaly". The Pioneer probes are spin stabilised, and apparently this means that their orbital trajectories can be calculated far more precisely.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 05:34 AM
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Here's some further reading for anyone that's interested. First two are PDF files.

From Standford University
A Study of Anomalous Acceleration of the Pioneer 10 and 11

From Purdue University - Warning, this contains advanced mathematics
Laboratory Test of Newton's Second Law for Small Accelerations

Article from Arizona State University
Are The Laws of Gravity Wrong?


Mogget, you are correct. Voyager data can't be used because of that.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 06:04 AM
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Wow, thanks for the story, Muaddib, i hope to read everything there is on this one.
We certainly are living in strange times!!!
Thanks for the information.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Mogget

As I understand it, trajectory data from the Voyagers can't be used because they are three axis stabilised spacecraft that fire thrusters to maintain the correct orientation with respect to target objects. Those thruster firings introduce uncertainties in the tracking data that would mask the effects of the "Pioneer anomaly". The Pioneer probes are spin stabilised, and apparently this means that their orbital trajectories can be calculated far more precisely.


Yes Mogget, you are right, in one of those articles they explain this a bit more, but you did a fine job at explaining it.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:16 PM
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There is a potential answer to the mystery but it means looking at our sun in a completely different light, as an electrical phenomena and not the nuclear fusion myth.


After launch, a spacecraft accepts electrons from the surrounding space plasma until the craft’s voltage is sufficient to repel further electrons. Near Earth it is known that a spacecraft may attain a negative potential of several tens of thousands of volts relative to its surroundings. So, in interplanetary space, the spacecraft becomes a charged object moving in the Sun’s weak electric field. Being negatively charged, it will experience an infinitesimal “tug” toward the positively charged Sun. Of most significance is the fact that the voltage gradient, that is the electric field, throughout interplanetary space remains constant. In other words, the retarding force on the spacecraft will not diminish with distance from the Sun. This effect distinguishes the electrical model from all others because all known force laws diminish with distance. The effect is real and it will have a fundamental impact on cosmology and spacecraft navigation because Pioneer 10 is now 7.4 billion miles from Earth, maybe 90 percent of the way to the heliopause. The electrical model of the solar system predicts that additional anomalies will be found if a distant spacecraft encounters the heliopause while still in contact with Earth. For the heliopause is the “cathode drop” region of the Sun’s electrical influence. It is a region of strong radial electric field, which will tend to decelerate the spacecraft more strongly. Almost the full difference between the Sun’s voltage and that of the local arm of the galaxy is present across the heliopause boundary. As a result, it is the region where so-called “anomalous” cosmic rays are generated by the strong field. It has nothing to do with a shock front and some poorly defined acceleration mechanism. Some measure of the driving electrical potential of the Sun may be gained from the study of “anomalous” cosmic rays. Also we can deduce the driving potential of other stars by the study of normal cosmic rays.

source

The Electric sun model makes much sense, and can easily explain many of the mysteries the present model cannot explain without resorting to ad hoc explanations.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 10:14 PM
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Gravity is known to be the weakest force (at least as we understand forces).

Could this point to there being far more than we can see ~ right here, right now??



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 12:31 AM
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What if the universe is also moving, wouldn't that also effect our space
flight?



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 12:34 AM
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I hadn't heard of the electric sun model before, but this sounds familiar. I remember reading of electrical anomalies regarding comets and the sun. I'll have to read up on this. Thanks! Andy

edited for precision

[edit on 14-8-2007 by drumist69]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 01:17 AM
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Possible theories I have:

1) The warp in space-time from the sun's gravity could affect its sun-toward acceleration in ways we do not yet know.

2) The warp in space-time, or better said the lack of a warp in space-time at that far distance could be affecting our measurable "perception" of the craft's relative position in space. Similar to when cesium atomic clocks were flown in jet aircraft at high altitudes and they measured a slightly different time than the synchronized ones here at sea level.

3) The radiation of the onboard nuclear fuel could be slowing it down.

4) The decay of the radioactive isotopes is occuring in multiple dimensions, thus causing an enhanced deceleration effect. If quantum theory states that subatomic particles can exist simultaneously in multiple dimensions, perhaps the space craft is exhibiting an enhanced "drag-effect."

5) Some unknown force from the earth or the sun is tugging on the craft when it emits radio frequency waves. Perhaps some strange electro-gravitational attraction is occuring between the sun and the space craft when it beams its signal towards us.

Any thoughts?



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by squiz
There is a potential answer to the mystery but it means looking at our sun in a completely different light, as an electrical phenomena and not the nuclear fusion myth.

source

The Electric sun model makes much sense, and can easily explain many of the mysteries the present model cannot explain without resorting to ad hoc explanations.


Thanks for the link. I don't know if this theory is accepted yet or not by the scientific community but it sounds very interesting. I can easily imagine our textbooks will be revised and plasma theory will need updating. Maybe we are one step closer to understanding how everything in the universe is related (I'm thinking about the Unified Field Theory). Perhaps this theory will even help in the development of fusion power. It's hard to say what long term effects new knowledge might bring. Thanks.


I'm wondering now if this theory could solve the mystery of dark matter.


[edit on 14-8-2007 by orionthehunter]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 03:13 AM
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This is a fascinating thread! I was always under the impression that
the further a craft traveled from Sol's gravity well, the FASTER it would
fly. Now it appears as if spaceships have something like an elastic
tether, with one end connected to the spaceship and the other end
connected to our sun. The further away you fly, the tighter this
"rubberband" gets. I wonder if propulsion was shut down, would a
craft zoom back towards the sun like comets do?

[edit on 14-8-2007 by carewemust]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 03:16 AM
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So from what I am gathering from all this so far is that top scientists have been trying to figure this thing out since 1980. I would venture a guess that they have explored most if not all theorys that have been mentioned in this thread so far. Until recently, cosmologists did not understand why the outer rim of galaxies revolve around the center at the same speed as the inner galaxy. Conventional physics dictated that a galaxy should spin like a top. They do not. Now, most scientists think that this may be because of dark matters gravity. So my guess is that there may be some dark matter having a gravitational effect on the space craft, slowing them down. That, or gravity from Nibiru is having an effect on them


Edit: doh! Someone beat me to the dark matter connection. That's what I get for replying on a small cell phone keyboard LOL

[edit on 14-8-2007 by Dionysian]




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