Why do people need to believe in lies?

This is my first post by the way and I want to try and keep this short and simple.

I'm asking this question because I want to break people down into 3 archetypes:
1) Delusional(blind optimists)
2) Realists(balanced minded)
3) Psychopaths(purely cynical and evil)

I have an understanding why people need to be lied to to make it through their existence here on earth, but when the split between 1(the delusional and 3(the psychopaths) grow further and further apart, it really is up to 2(balance/reality) to take charge.

It's now 7/30/07 and the lies that have been spewing out of this administration is beyond nauseating. These people compile lies on top of their lies which, for anybody logical, makes you just want to smash your head into a wall running at full speed, or just turn off all the MSM and go live in a forest somewhere.

Lies have been around since the beginning of civilization and eventually these lies have destroyed empire after empire for thousands of years.

My questions are these. Do any of you guys ever wonder how long these lies can go on for(in america)? Do you understand the three types of people I listed above?

This is a question really geared towards the #1 types out there. Because,IMO, these people suffer the most when it all goes bad.

If anything, I would like to talk about the 3 archetype of people above.

Dang!

No replies yet.

I guess it's either too ambiguous or too easy to understand.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

The delusional probobly know the truth but cannot prove it.
The realists are the brainwashed majority of the population.
The psychopaths know the truth, and kill because..well...why not?

What is a lie? Telling me something that isn't true? What makes anyone really put the amount of trust in someone to even believe anything that anyone else says? I am glad the education system taught me the basics....but for the most part I learn on my own. I don't learn from books and television, I learn from personal experience. It's my life, so I will live and if I am not happy, I will make myself happy with happy thoughts or actions. I do not need anyone telling me anything, whether it be the truth or a lie, therefor I take any information given to me as purely unneccesary and most likely biased BS some fat guy that went to college taught him. So I guess anything I get is a lie until I prove otherwise with my own personal "experience". I think I said that in two posts today.

My world is my world, people I percieve in it exist, people I do not percieve are not real, until I personally meet them. People typing on this forum, I believe, were possibly my minds own creation, you could all try to prove me wrong....by telling me more information about yourself that I wouldn't know....but I guess I would know then wouldn't I?

Which lies do you mean?

The lie that Islamic terrorists are trying to topple the West?

Or the lie that Western interests were behind the Twin Towers attack?

The lie that flying saucers exist?

Or the lie that no-one has been abducted by aliens?

How about the lie that God exists?

Or, again, the lie that life arose from dead matter?

One man's truth is another man's lies. Why should yours be the same as mine?

Your division of humanity up into categories is demeaning and offensive. Which category do you you fit into?

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Astyanax]

People believe lies mainly because they are reasonably plausible and also its easier to just go along with the official line.

Society is based on lots of different lies - we start off raising our children to believe in 'Father Christmas', the 'tooth fairy' and then we wonder why people believe in lies so easily.

If you are raised from the cradle to believe in lies and falsehoods by your parents it doesn't exactly help does it!!

People believe lies because the truth is unpleasant. LIE: Iraqi WMD and the war on terrorism. TRUTH: Iraqi oil. Which one would you allow your sons and daughters to fight and die for.
People believe lies because it gives them a moral backing. The old 'my God is the only one' argument.
People believe lies because the truth is beyond their education or experience.
People believe lies because they can't admit that they made a mistake or that their leaders would betray them like that.
And if you fixed all the aforementioned things, people would still believe lies that made life easier or just to go along with society.

Lies are easier to believe. America went to war with Iraq for democracy, not oil. Britain went to war with Iraq as the most loyal nation, not because our leader had fallen to flattery and his ego had expanded more than George 'missile in your eye' Bush. These people want us to believe their lies to wow them and stay in our position. My views: don't lie and don't believe in them. And then they go away...........

Originally posted by Astyanax


Your division of humanity up into categories is demeaning and offensive. Which category do you you fit into?

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Astyanax]

How is it demeaning and offensive?

Delusional people do things entirely on faith. They do not think things through nor consider the consequences their actions may be imposing onto others that are not apart of their family unit or community. They "go with the flow" and believe that if Joe Blow is doing it, it must be alright because he's a good guy. The bilind optimist(delusional) is not interested in introspection because they don't know how to think for themselves. They don't have the ability to relate to a person struggling(like the homeless) because they try to keep positive and have "happy thoughts" running through their heads.

Psychopaths are the doomed. They know their place in the world and except it. They understand that they are and forever will be on the outside fringes of society. Now psychopaths are tricky because they are everywhere in our society. They can be very rich and important or can be living under a bridge in L.A. If a psycho masters a system and amasses power and have the delusional follow them, it's a recipe for disaster. Think Hitler.

Realists.
Realists understand the dichotomy that exists within their own consciousness. They understand the difference between doing good and doing bad. They don't rely on others to determine whether or not it's okay to do what they want to do. They live their lives how they want. Realists take responsibility for their actions and there is no regret because there is alway constant introspection.

And to answer your question Astyanax. I'm a realist with a tinge of psychopath that comes with a side of delusion.

Originally posted by johnb
People believe lies mainly because they are reasonably plausible and also its easier to just go along with the official line.

Society is based on lots of different lies - we start off raising our children to believe in 'Father Christmas', the 'tooth fairy' and then we wonder why people believe in lies so easily.

If you are raised from the cradle to believe in lies and falsehoods by your parents it doesn't exactly help does it!!

Don't you see this as a huge problem?

The major religions have some truth in them but why the hell did we get force fed santa clause, the tooth fairy, etc, growing up? Those are just childhood lies we got over. There are many, many lies and complex adult lies that exist that most people can't see through.

We are really reaching critical mass with all these lies being revealed today in this generation. How long can this last?

Why do we believe in lies?

We "believe" in lies, because we do not perceive them to BE lies. We give others the benefit of the doubt, and always see the good in them.

Our ego tries to protect us. It sees the "truth" told by people in high places as credible evidence. Why would someone who is so respected and upheld "lie" to us? They wouldnt. We dont believe those who are ridiculed, because we dont associate ourselves with people we have been taught are liars, nor do we doubt those who are above us.

We believe rationality, because we have been taught to believe all that is rational. Its not rational for a government to lie to us is it? Not at all. This type of conditioning, both from external and internal sources, is why we believe in lies

The majority of people, wherever they might fit into the three archtypes, enjoy a good story.

Even kids beg to be told bedtime stories, and it's plausible this longing for storytelling in some form or fashion is something that the majority of us never grow out of.

Let's face it - in a life dominated by the mundane, it's always nice to hear something different, exciting and outlandish - regardless of the factual accuracy of the tale being told.

Me? Psychopathic Realist with a thing for the Weekly World News.

Originally posted by Conundrum04

Originally posted by johnb
People believe lies mainly because they are reasonably plausible and also its easier to just go along with the official line.

Society is based on lots of different lies - we start off raising our children to believe in 'Father Christmas', the 'tooth fairy' and then we wonder why people believe in lies so easily.

If you are raised from the cradle to believe in lies and falsehoods by your parents it doesn't exactly help does it!!

Don't you see this as a huge problem?

The major religions have some truth in them but why the hell did we get force fed santa clause, the tooth fairy, etc, growing up? Those are just childhood lies we got over. There are many, many lies and complex adult lies that exist that most people can't see through.

We are really reaching critical mass with all these lies being revealed today in this generation. How long can this last?

Yes it is a huge problem but most sheeple don't seem to be interested, although the internet does seem to be helping people become more aware.

To quote a line from 'A few good men' in the courtroom at the end of the film Tom Cruise's character goads the Major/General into saying 'Can you handle the truth?' - Most people can't or won't.

In regards to 911, I think people are unable, or unwilling to question the government, because they feel being patriotic means following your countries leaders no matter what.

which is stupid.

Maybe they just cant comprehend that the world is capable of producing mad men?

I mean everyone believes Hitler existed, he was the result of society.
So why couldnt it happen in America?

I find most people OUTSIDE of America, understand 911 and Iraq to be highly dubious...
Where as a fair % of people in side America flat out refuse to question their leaders.

American Fantasies

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I find most people OUTSIDE of America, understand 911 and Iraq to be highly dubious...

'Most people' is a bit sweeping.

I would agree that my own experience (drawn from several parts of the world) suggests that a large number of non-Americans question American motives for invading Iraq a second time.

This is understandable, since America has behaved with such callousness, recklessness and all-round stupidity with respect to Iraq and the Middle East since then. But it also means that the world has largely forgotten Saddam Hussein's endless defiance of the Security Council and his refusal to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors. Iraq's behaviour prior to the invasion gave the world every reason to believe that the regime was concealing weapons of mass destruction. You didn't need George Bush and the CIA to make you think that: all you had to do was watch Tariq Aziz on TV every night.

People forget quickly. They forget that Saddam invaded Kuwait and seemed intent on heading west from that country into Saudi Arabia when he was stopped by American and allied forces. I suppose in a few years time we'll have idiots popping up on ATS to tell us that the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was faked, just like the moon landings and the Holocaust are now said to be. Technology is a wonderful thing: it globalizes the babble of fools and cranks who are -- with very good reason -- shunned by neighbours and co-workers in the real world.

Concerning the belief that what you call '911' (by which I presume you mean the destruction of the World Trade Centre by Islamic fanatics using planes as bombs) is somehow 'dubious', my experience indicates that that particular fantasy is largely American. I've heard a few Arabs blame Israel for it; but then, they would, wouldn't they?

Originally posted by Astyanax
American Fantasies

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I find most people OUTSIDE of America, understand 911 and Iraq to be highly dubious...

'Most people' is a bit sweeping.

But it also means that the world has largely forgotten Saddam Hussein's endless defiance of the Security Council and his refusal to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors. Iraq's behaviour prior to the invasion gave the world every reason to believe that the regime was concealing weapons of mass destruction. You didn't need George Bush and the CIA to make you think that: all you had to do was watch Tariq Aziz on TV every night.

And of course there was absolutely no spying going on within the inspections, lol , which is the reason Saddam kicked them out in 98. Go search Scott Ritter.

And Saddam's behavior, prior to the unlawful invasion of Iraq, is entirely due with the deception and lies projected towards him from the west. Saddam was a despot and evil for sure but he was set up to be that way from the beginning for purely US interests.

People forget quickly. They forget that Saddam invaded Kuwait and seemed intent on heading west from that country into Saudi Arabia when he was stopped by American and allied forces. I suppose in a few years time we'll have idiots popping up on ATS to tell us that the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was faked, just like the moon landings and the Holocaust are now said to be.

Yeah faked it was. The BS story about the iraqi soldiers going into a hospital and throwing new born Kuwaiti babies on the floor is 100% FAKE.
www.antiwar.com/orig/cohen1.html

And of course Saddam invaded Kuwait without him thinking the US would support him. GEEZ!!! Being naive crosses all borders.

Why do people believe lies? I have wondered the same thing. I suppose there must be many reasons, but, I think when it comes to 911, and the media of today, it becomes more apparent to those who have an opposing view to those who believe the media whores, are really trying to be rational, and intelligent, and most of them actually are rational and intelligent until you show them factual information that does not support their paradigm, then they become irrationally angry and agressive. This is when they usually resort to name calling, or black labeling the person who posits the thorn of truth into their paradigm. For instance, if a person really believes that president Bush is really not interested in the welfare and survival of our economy, and the balance the middle class brought to our society, and suggests this is so by sourcing various attrocities he has penned into law, you are liable to get insults by the bushel, and black labeled as a liberal bleeding heart, or a Socialist, or too lazy to earn your own keep and want a nanny state, or a commie, and even labeled as a paranoid delusional America hater. LOL!

For the most part, I think people are good, but, theydo not believe they are capable of being fooled, or capable of fooling themselves. When I think about how good we have it here in the US compared to other people in the world, I am grateful, but also somewhat ashamed. We burn a lot of fuel, and we need that fuel to keep our country afloat, especially since the war, and the war profits, that are driving us into the greatest world wide depression ever on the planet. If I think about it long and hard, I come to the conclusion that I am just as capable of being fooled as any other person is. The problem is that we can not imagine our life without the comforts we take for granted every single day. How often do we hop in our cars and take off where ever and never even give a thought to the gasoline we're burning, and the real costs, and whose blood was shed for that convenience? Without fuel, we have no electricity, no travel, no emergency room plastics. Jobs would be protecting you and yours, and staying alive.

So why would anyone choose to believe that the Al Qaida bandits did it? Because, if they didn't do it, who are we going to blame, ourselves? Hold on there that is absolutely unacceptable, and we patriotic flag wavers have to stand behind our president, even if we don't always agree with him, because anything else is just not acceptable. Blaming ourselves might imply that we are really a country full of spoiled selfish murderers, complicit imbeciles, and belong in the sheep pen or in the same gulags we want to put other far away peoples of different cultures into all in the name of enduring freedom. My question is whose freedom are we protecting here, ours are being eroded by our elected president and vice, theirs are being demolished by our military, and we can't understand why we are hated. Mercy!

They believe what they want to believe because it is the most convenient beleif, it doesn't cause them strife, as long as it happens somewhere else, not in their own neighborhood; the beer flows and football is on.

Onward, Ignorance!

Originally posted by Conundrum04

Originally posted by Astyanax
You didn't need George Bush and the CIA... all you had to do was watch Tariq Aziz on TV every night.

And of course there was absolutely no spying going on within the inspections, lol , which is the reason Saddam kicked them out in 98. Go search Scott Ritter.

Yes, I've seen Mr. Ritter make his case on television, 'lol'. So what? Do you seriously imagine that there would not, or even should not, have been spies among the inspectors? You have a nerve calling other people naive.

And Saddam's behavior, prior to the unlawful invasion of Iraq, is entirely due with the deception and lies projected towards him from the west. Saddam was a despot and evil for sure but he was set up to be that way

Oh, poor little Saddam, it was the wicked, wicked West, they made him what he was. It's all down to upbringing and environment, isn't it? He was a good fellow really, but growing up in the deprived circumstances he did, cruelly potty-trained by Donald Rumsfeld, no wonder he grew up all bitter and twisted, hooked on anthrax and mustard gas. He didn't stand a chance, poor lad. I blame Society, of course...

What fiddlesticks.

I suppose in a few years time we'll have idiots popping up on ATS to tell us that the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was faked, just like the moon landings and the Holocaust are now said to be.

The BS story about the iraqi soldiers going into a hospital and throwing new born Kuwaiti babies on the floor...

...and therefore the invasion never happened -- of course.

Clearly the process of rewriting history has already begun -- at least inside certain people's heads. Have fun.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Which lies do you mean?

The lie that Islamic terrorists are trying to topple the West?

Or the lie that Western interests were behind the Twin Towers attack?

The lie that flying saucers exist?

Or the lie that no-one has been abducted by aliens?

How about the lie that God exists?

Or, again, the lie that life arose from dead matter?

One man's truth is another man's lies. Why should yours be the same as mine?

Your division of humanity up into categories is demeaning and offensive. Which category do you you fit into?

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Astyanax]

i second this post.

Being Canadian, I have the unique advantage of a high tech lifestyle and the intellectual freedom to make full use of it. We are not censored and restricted as some other nations at our level are. Not yet at least. There have been attempts and an increasing pressure from our southern neighbour to conform to their image. But until this happens, our veiw of the world is pretty complete. That is not to say that the LIE isn't practiced here, just that if you are willing to take the time, the resources to investigate the truth are easy to access. the truth about Iraq is that it has been a messy war zone for thousands of years and will remain that way until there is a revolution in Islamic thought. Until some Islamic cleric rewrites the Koran and then stands up and shows the people a new way, there will be bloodshed and violence. Interference from the rest of the world won't help, it just builds resentment. Americans in particular aren't trusted, because of the CIA's habit of helping both sides. The UN is seen as an American puppet, and NATO is blamed for creating the Isreali state, which is universally hated in the Islamic world. The best thing that could happen in Iraq is for the government there to be shored up and all US troops removed. Let the revolution happen and shake the hand of the winner. Hopefully it will be someone with a little foresight.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Onward, Ignorance!

Yes, I've seen Mr. Ritter make his case on television, 'lol'. So what? Do you seriously imagine that there would not, or even should not, have been spies among the inspectors? You have a nerve calling other people naive.

Are you serious??? Saddam accuses some of the inspectors of being spies, kicks them out, and ends up being correct in doing so because they were, indeed, spies imbedded. So was Saddam just supposed to let this happen?