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Mexican activist attempts to burn American Flag-key word "attempts"

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posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by somedude
Give me a break, all this talk about violations against the guy's right to freedom of speech. [edit on 7/29/2007 by somedude]


only reason i mention it is cause people are quick to toss out all the instances where people they know or read about 'fought for the flag' or fought for this country and the rights..(and that was freedom of speech right? yeah)....this dude has every right to do that BECAUSE PEOPLE FOUGHT FOR THAT RIGHT, but when he wants to excercise it, those same people are ready to steal from him or give him a beat down.

i think that is very funny.




posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
edit* burn cotton=not ok
beat down a person=ok....lol
[edit on 29-7-2007 by Boondock78]


I picked this out of your post because I noticed someone else saying something along these lines earlier in the thread. Just because some of you aren't able to understand symbolism, doesn't mean everyone else isn't. It isn't "just a flag" or "just a piece of cloth" because of what it represents. Take a $100 bill for example, it's just a piece of paper with some ink right? Technically yes, but it REPRESENTS value, just like the flag represents the country and its beliefs.

You can go on and on about freedom of speech all you want, but as many have stated, just because it's legal doesn't make it right.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by somedude
Just because some of you aren't able to understand symbolism, doesn't mean everyone else isn't. It isn't "just a flag" or "just a piece of cloth" because of what it represents.

^^^^^ok, so burning some tangible item =not ok
physically harming a human though=ok, as long as it is protecting said tangible item???? whateva


You can go on and on about freedom of speech all you want, but as many have stated, just because it's legal doesn't make it right.


don't need to be right, just legal
what is 'right' to me, may not be to you.

just cause grass is illegal, don't mean it's 'wrong' to smoke it.

i get that some of you have feelings for this flag but sorry, i feel like a human being trumps the cotton every time.
it's not right to burn the flag but you think it's right to knock a guy around for it?

friggin hypocrite man.

this is the country of freedom. rights. free speech and we got the patriots trying/wanting/wishing to stop certain aspects of these rights cause they don't agree.
hypoctite much?


edit* your money vs flag comparison is just too far out there.


[edit on 29-7-2007 by Boondock78]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

Many understand the flag to represent the freedoms and rights guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution and its Bill of Rights and perhaps most of all to be a symbol of individual and personal liberty as set forth in the Declaration of Independence.


Through the Pledge of Allegiance and other political uses the flag has also come to be associated with U.S. nationalism, patriotism, and even militarism. The flag is a complex and contentious symbol, around which emotions run high.
---------------------------------

flad means many things and nothing at all to many people.
the hell gives you the fight to decide what it means for them?
why stop at the flag?

why not get out there vigilante style to stop other crimes and what not? other things you don't agree with?
why stop with the cotton?



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Sorry a little confusion there, I wasn't implying that it's alright to harm someone else over the act of burning the flag. A few posts back I stated that I would have taken the flag as the guy in the video did. What I was getting at from the part I quoted from you was your comparison of the flag to only being cotton. I was explaining the importance of symbolism. I don't really feel that my comparison of the flag and money is "way out there." Both items at material value are relatively worthless, yet they both represent a higher value than themselves.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:53 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

The flag should not be used as "wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery",[1] or for covering a speaker's desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general (exception for coffins).

do my american flag boxers warrant me a beat down? do you get all bunged up when you are at wall mart and you see teh flag on all sorts of apparel? do you 'steal' it cause it is wrong to sell it?

The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed, or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.

how bout that one? you see some americam flag napkins at a party, do you go around grabbing them all up?








so i am thinking you choose what is 'right' and then decide how to act huh?

good thread



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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It's nothing more than a thing, it would be the same to burning a towel, sheet, rag, ect.
Why people get so offended over a burning flag is beyond me.


Sure, it's a symbol for a country.. but why care so much when there are a hundred more flags out there?

[edit on 093131p://58079 by mnmcandiez]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by somedude
Sorry a little confusion there, I wasn't implying that it's alright to harm someone else over the act of burning the flag. A few posts back I stated that I would have taken the flag as the guy in the video did. What I was getting at from the part I quoted from you was your comparison of the flag to only being cotton. I was explaining the importance of symbolism. I don't really feel that my comparison of the flag and money is "way out there." Both items at material value are relatively worthless, yet they both represent a higher value than themselves.


sorry. i thought it was you that said they would beat them up or something to that effect if you saw someone burning a flag...

you stated you would hav taken it from him so i will take issue with that. he has the right to do that and you do not have the right to take his property, no matter how strong you feel about the cotton.

well, money is not displayed on flagpoles and flown about and attatched to certain symbolism.

it is legal tender that we use to pay our mortgage with, buy food, work for, etc etc....it's different.

i don't have any c-notes hanging from a pole in the yard...matter of fact, i have never seen such a thing. that is the difference



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by mnmcandiez
It's nothing more than a thing, it would be the same to burning a towel, sheet, rag, ect.
Why people get so offended over a burning flag is beyond me.


totally, 100% agree.
all it is is cotton or some sort of cloth that people place a meaning too. means different things to different people.

i think it is kinda strange how many 'rules' are devoted to the flag....read that wiki link i gave...there is a laundry list of things not to be done with it.

flag is supposed to be raised briskly and lowered slowly.

who gives a rats balls about this crap?
^^^rhetorical....apparently a lot do.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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If you notice the shop windows and newspaper stand and other assorted clues, you will realize this is in Mexico, not the United States.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
so i am thinking you choose what is 'right' and then decide how to act huh?good thread


Those hardly stand up to the intensity of burning a flag. Again, it's all about symbolism. The burner certainly understands the meaning of it, otherwise why would he waste his time standing out in the street just burning "some cotton"? It's a direct insult to everyone that holds symbolic value in the flag. Why is that so hard to understand?



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by somedude
[ It's a direct insult to everyone that holds symbolic value in the flag. Why is that so hard to understand?


it's hard to understand cause it means something ot nothing to each and every person....so it means this or that to you, so in your opinion that means that persons views on the flag are less valid cause he does not agree with you.

i frankly don't care what he thinks of it or what you think of it.

the point is here for you and all the patriots is just cause you don't like something, does not give you the right to go attempt to stop it...

taking his flag or preventing him from excercising his rights is a direct insult to me, a person who thinks that people should be able to do what they want to do, so long as it does not pysically harm someone else.

so your views/opinions on the flag trump mine....?

my point is, you put a lot of stock in the flag...thats great....that does not give you the right to impose your feelings on others, or from stopping them from displaying their feelings towards the cotton.

why is this so hard to understand?

edit*
again,
so i am thinking you choose what is 'right' and then decide how to act huh?

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Boondock78]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
so i am thinking you choose what is 'right' and then decide how to act huh?
[edit on 29-7-2007 by Boondock78]


Quite frankly, yes. Without going into a long speech about the founding fathers, it is that ideology that started this great nation. And if what I do is deemed wrong, then I'll pay my dues for it.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:15 AM
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I'm glad he took it. The guy was trying to lite a flag on fire on a busy street corner. Anyone seen those videos of what happens when flag burnings go wrong and they catch themselves and others on fire? See that girl in the video jump when the flag got near her? I can't believe that it would be legal to lite anything on fire in the middle of a city street.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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As I watched this video, what I am most disturbed about is that this person, who was trying to burn the flag, wanted to do such with his face covered. All of the times that I have seen the flagged burned, no one had their face covered and there was a lot of support, especially for the stuff in the 60's. When it is done outside of the country, well that is what they do, but myself if I was going to purchase and burn the flag of my country I do not think I would do it with my face covered or without the support of a large group of people, as that shows the mood of the local population that I live in. Flag burning is not illegale, but I am also under the belief that if you are going to do such, have the courage to show your face as well.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:21 AM
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OK isnt it against the law to start fires in public. Maybe the mexican should be arrested and the guy who stopped is actually a hero.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:49 AM
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I love the irony of the flag kissers here who post patriotic comments behind their invisable accounts online and someone who trys to burn a bit of cloth with their face covered out in public is a coward!

Personly he should have got his flag back,its his property and he should use the right amount of force needed to do so.

Its only a piece of fabric guys,dont be brainwashed into thinking its anything other than that



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 11:06 AM
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Let's have a lynch mob mentality folks!! Just get physical when someone exercizes their Constitutional Rights; thats a GREAT way to protect and defend..NONSENSE!!

We do NOT take any oaths in this nation to protect and defend a piece of cloth, no matter the patterns on it. We, at least those of us who have served in the Armed Forces and public officials, etc. take an oath to support and defend the CONSTITUTION of the USA, NOT the symbol of cloth that they make kids stand in front of and recite some pro govenment balderdash to every morning; it is PROPAGANDA, plain and simple.

MOST countries on this planet do NOT force it's citizens to stand and put their hands on certain parts of their bodies and repeat some verse that intends to promote blind obedience to the powers that be, namely the poltical structure, which we all know is as corrupt as the Cosa Nostra, maybe more so. At least a decent Mafioso will keep the law of OMERTA in place and have some allegiance to family before the State.

When I was in military school all those years, and then the Air Force, I felt a tingle when I saw the flag and heard the martial music; we were a different nation then. Now, we are the chattel for the corporate bosses and their political minions to use and abuse as they wish, spied on, searched and held without cause, rights denied, votes stolen, secrecy at maximum levels, government sponsored terrorism ( see 9-11 ) and on and on.

We are no longer a nation that can hold it's head high and claim moral and legal superiority over anyone else; we murder, we torture, we steal trillions of dollars, we steal whole nations for oil and money.

Who are WE in this day and age to be trumpeting about the high ground to ANY other country? Habeas Corpus, GONE. Privacy rights, GONE. Warrants required before a search or detention, GONE. Giving captured soldiers Red Cross access and respect for the Geneva Conventions, GONE.

WE are the rouge state, WE are the terror sponsors, WE are the nightmare of a looming police state, WE are the nation with NO health care for millions of it's citizens, WE are the premiere producer of nuclear and toxic waste, WE are the nation that says nothing when a Court stops an election and gives it to their cronies, etc.

I could go on and on..SURE America is great, or used to be..and can be great again. If we got rid of EVERY politician now in Washington and started over with Lincolnian type oratory and debate and real input from the people, and NOT the corporate bosses who run us now, we might have a chance. The America we knew ithe 1950's and even 60's is GONE forever, unless WE bring it back, and we CANNOT do that by denying Rights to ANYONE.

Anyone who interferes with the burning of a flag, or any other form of political protect, should be arrested and charged with assault, theft and civil rights violations. How DARE anyone go against the CONSTITUTION in the name of the ' flag '!? The Constitution is our only hope, properly comprehended and acted upon; the flag can be changed by Congressional fiat and so is in flux at all times.

Will you be so rabid about protecting a piece of cloth if it had the NAU symbols on it? When Bush and his gang give us away legally into the NAU scheme, will you slavishly protect THAT flag as well? Why not? it will be the new American flag ( as well as Mexico's and Canada's as well ) and so you would get all huffed up if some political protestor burns it, right? Or will you?

Throwing stiff arm salutes or worshipping a piece of cloth may be the way for YOU to express your patriotism, but remember that when you get to Court, it will be the Constitution that defends you, and not the legions of screaming ninnies wailing because their precious piece of cloth was used to promote discussion about political issues.

I do not care if it a Mexican or American or Bosnian or the last cannibal on the Congo, the RIGHT to free expression must NOT be thrown away by the emotional ravings of the flag wavers. To them the law means nothing, the Constitution means nothing, only the satisfaction of base and emotionally bereft desires to act out and appear to be some kind of patriot..so sad.

The very people who think that they are protecting the ' flag ' by destroying the Constitution will be the downfall of us all, and themselves. they just cannot see past the hatred and emotion ; the big picture alludes them. Flags and other appurtances of any regime are there to inspire nationalism and belief that one nation is ' special ' and all others are lesser. We cannot take the high ground in the world as long as we are doing such a crappy job of protecting people at home.

Let them burn flags all day long; most are made in China anyway and that means that they will always have a goodly supply to sell us at inflated prices; the so called patriots can wave their flags and pretend to be good citizens while the Constitution is slowly done away with by the ignorance of the masses, who see an immediate and emotional response as valid and appropriate. God help us get their eyes opened.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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People keep forgetting that if they do not like another's expression of speech they have the right to leave! How is that so hard to understand? If this video was made in Mexico, like someone suggest, than why all the hooting and hollering anyways? People burn American flags a lot outside the US. Generally in countries who disagree with policies or actions by the government. Why are people ragging on this guy for wearing a bandana anyways? Maybe he didn't want to breath in the smoke from burning the flag? It is best to just go by evidence instead of using your presuppositions against people you have never met.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by noangels2006
Its only a piece of fabric guys,dont be brainwashed into thinking its anything other than that


Just like the Constitution is only a piece of paper, and the Bible is only a book, and a tombstone is only a slab of marble? I could go on and try to hit something that actually matters to you, but hopefully the point was made.

Nobody gets angry over the burning of fabric (unless maybe you're an uptight fire marshal). It's the act of vandalizing something that holds symbolic value to many, when the intent of the act is only to cause offense and to insult those that do hold value in it.

edit: typos

[edit on 7/29/2007 by somedude]





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