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Professors in Colorado Recieve Death Threats for Teaching Evolution

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posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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I find it very amusing that these fundamental extremists like to argue evolution with non-believers, saying that we atheists and science-types are stupid, ignorant, etc., and even suggest that we would be better off dead. That people who don't believe in their god should die. And yet I don't see a single news story about a scientist threatening to kill a fundie over their attempts to force intelligent design into the public school system.

Instead, we mock. www.venganza.org...

I think mockery is much the lesser of the two evils.




posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 12:59 PM
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What I find very interesting is that instead of letting people ask questions and come up with their own conclusions, that there are still people out there determined to tell others what to believe, and what they believe is truth. Were we created? Not sure, did we evolve? Not sure on that one, but it is our right as a human being to make that determination and to figure it out for ourselves to see how it fits into our own personal views of the world and how it works. I know that there are probably alot of fundamentalist organizations out there that are currently trying to dictate how we teach our children and those who are steadfast not going to follow through with such. Personally I believe, that if a fundamentalist wants their children to believe in the creation side of life, that is why there are religious schools out there that would be more than happy to accomidate them for their own beliefs and leave the rest of the country out of the debate.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
Personally I believe, that if a fundamentalist wants their children to believe in the creation side of life, that is why there are religious schools out there that would be more than happy to accomidate them for their own beliefs and leave the rest of the country out of the debate.



What is the point of having schools, or education at all, then? Education is supposed to provide common knowledge to people so that we will be able to work and live together productively, and push forward the progress of human achievement. How can this happen if all of a sudden groups of people start learning/teaching things contrary to well established facts, simply because those facts clash with their outdated belief system? Religion poisions the mind, because it is the easy answer. You don't have to work to learn new things, just accept that god did it! It is a terrible tragedy that the human race has fostered these ideas for so many millenia.

I just don't understand how people can actually take it seriously--I mean come on, there are how many religions in the world? And of those, how many of them beleive themselves to be the one true religion?

Oh yeah, they all do.


Can anyone else but me see the absurdity of this?

And then we get people like these nuts who want to kill those who disagree...Whatever. Your god must be so proud.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 02:41 PM
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I'd like to point out the similarities this specific case holds with the Taliban.

www.foxnews.com...



KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Taliban militants beheaded a teacher in a central Afghan town while his wife and eight children watched, officials said Wednesday, describing the latest in a string of attacks targeting educators at schools where girls study.

Four men stabbed Malim Abdul Habib eight times late Tuesday before decapitating him in the courtyard of his home in Qalat, said Ali Khail, a spokesman for the provincial government of Zabul, where the attack took place.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 02:54 PM
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Death threats, such a Christian thing, eh?


Jew converted to a Christian? Horrible. Thats like taking chocolate cake and pouring mud all over it.

Abrahamic religions started out tolerable and then every expansion pack got worse and worse.

Yeah the professors should make this a criminal case correct me if I'm wrong death threats like that are illegal eh?



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
So if evolution is "Known lies" what is the "Known truth"


There is no KNOWN TRUTH on the Origin of Mankind. there is as of now two theories, one is evolution and one is creationsm. But I don't pretend mine is scientific and proveable like Evolutionists do. Why can't they admit that it is THEORY, and that thy "BELIEVE" it to be true, but that it is not proveable in science, nor recreatable. Thats my only bne with evolutionists. they like to make it seem as if evolution is scietific and it is not, it is a theory of how man originated.

I believe everyone has the Right to think and believe as they want to but i don't believe everyone has the right to say belief and guesses are Facts and science. There ar many on ATS that do that, many threads and comments say clearly that they believe that to be the case and that they have a theory. But some say it is FACT, this is pure non scietific hogwash to say the least.

There are even some people that subscribe to both theories, that is to say God created it and let evolution carry it out, I don't buy this cause my God aint so cruel or stupid that he can't get it right the first time...

So in answering your question I believ in Creationism, I can not prove it scientifically and it takes faith to believe in it, as does evolution so just say so and you will get no fight from me for your theories. I will only respond to those that call it FACT. If it were fact we wouldn't be looking for missing links or teaching children known lies.

I knwo some of you would like some known lies that I am talking about as an example so here is one of them in most all American textbooks for elementary schoolers..

Archioptrix - bad spelling I am sure but it is the dinosaur bird fossil that has been PROVEN a HOAX, but it is still in the textbooks as Proof of Evolution. I think most reasonable and sane people would think that teaching the kids the KNOWN truths and facts as facts is acceptable but that teaching the known lies as facts as reprihensible..

I hope that clears that up for sme of you, I don't call creationism a scientific fact it is a theory.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:20 PM
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But you see evolution actually gives a scientific explanation to why it happens, and all that. Which is why it counts as science.

You are correct that there is no scientific proof that creationism is true, but theres more going for evolution, science wise, then creationism, which has no science involved. So we go with the best theory we have. I agree it should not be peddled as complete 100% fact but for science at least there is nothing else, no other theories yet.

No other evidence we collected that suggests another means to how we got here, and when you look at how things are...and really study biology, its hard to explain, it just seems somewhat logical. I wish I could put it in words you'd understand.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I hope that clears that up for sme of you, I don't call creationism a scientific fact it is a theory.


There you go confusing scientific terminology again. Creationism is a hypothesis. Unfortunately for you, it's a hypothesis with no testable evidence to back it up.

As for God not being so stupid that he didn't get it right the first time..... That's very funny. I don't recall anyone calling your God stupid, yet you insist on calling other people's God stupid.

I must say that you have a serious issue with respecting others.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
So if evolution is "Known lies" what is the "Known truth"


There is no KNOWN TRUTH on the Origin of Mankind. there is as of now two theories, one is evolution and one is creationsm.


There is more then one creation theory.


But I don't pretend mine is scientific and proveable like Evolutionists do. Why can't they admit that it is THEORY, and that thy "BELIEVE" it to be true, but that it is not proveable in science, nor recreatable.



In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method).

en.wikipedia.org...



I believe everyone has the Right to think and believe as they want to but i don't believe everyone has the right to say belief and guesses are Facts and science.


Evolution is based on scientific evidence.

You should read these links:

Evidence of common descent

Evidence of Evolution


There are even some people that subscribe to both theories, that is to say God created it and let evolution carry it out, I don't buy this cause my God aint so cruel or stupid that he can't get it right the first time...


But he's so cruel that he would fake evidence for evolution, and hoax fossils?



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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to the independentjournal, i don't think you're getting it and that was not a dig.

it is a FACT that there are examples of evidence that lends credence towards the proof of the THEORY...
even gravity is a theory. you understand?
god is like a hypothesis. there is no evidence to support that hypothesis and that is why it is not even a theory.please do not attempt to use the bible as 'evidence' to your hypothesis. i really can't stand when people do that as the bible is kind of the book in question...

i mean, science keeps looking, testing, exploring, trying to figure it out. thats why it is ever changing. some would call it learning.
following a book that was written by infallable men that is supposed to be the word of this diety that we have no evidence of is what i would call, well, dumb.
makes no sense to me.

i just absolutely can not fathom it...there is loads and loads of evidence to support these scientific theories. there is F all to support the hypothesis's in the bible except for, you guessed it...the bible



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Alien42
But he's so cruel that he would fake evidence for evolution, and hoax fossils?


He's cruel and heartless, but not stupid


He's also 100 feet tall, and built like Hulk Hogan.

I love how people claim to know what God is, and how he thinks, based on their personal ideals. Anyway, off topic....



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

There you go confusing scientific terminology again. Creationism is a hypothesis. Unfortunately for you, it's a hypothesis with no testable evidence to back it up.

I must say that you have a serious issue with respecting others.


rasbosi, people that believe as this person does will more than likely NEVER get it. never.
i debate it all the time all over the net..

"uhhhh, if we evolved how come the fossil record is incomplete....how come the missing link is still missing"......
that is the kind of crap people toss out.

for the life of me, i can not understand why people think so small. i mean, just cause we don't know the answer to this or that today, don't mean we won't figure it out tomorrow...

the fossil record is incomplete so we should stop looking? i just don't get it.
there was a day back in 03, lets call it a wednesday....as of that date in time, scientists(on that wednesday) had NO IDEA there was a 'hobit person'(homo florensis) that used to live on the island of flores. then, after wednesday on that thursday, they found it....just like that.
most important fossil discovery of the last 50 years EASILY.....
good thing we kept looking eh?


just saying ras, they won't get it...
not if it don't jive with the good book



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I love how people claim to know what God is, and how he thinks, based on their personal ideals. Anyway, off topic....




man, i love it too. god did this and god did that and god exists on a different plane and he was always there.
god just created a galaxy so vast only for us to NEVER traverse the vast distance.
i like how in one breath we can be told our brains can not comprehend about god but then, they seem to know all kinds of crap about 'him'...

i wondered that about god.
if he created it all for us and as the non believers say, "space is too vast. humans will never be able to conquer the distance"....well, then why the hell is it there?
what good is 45 million light years worth of space doing us?


know what i mean? it just don't jive with me and it baffles me how it can jive with anyone...it really does



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I find it very amusing that these fundamental extremists like to argue evolution with non-believers, saying that we atheists and science-types are stupid, ignorant, etc., and even suggest that we would be better off dead. That people who don't believe in their god should die. And yet I don't see a single news story about a scientist threatening to kill a fundie over their attempts to force intelligent design into the public school system.


I don't think you can compare a scientist to a fundamentalist. Scientist is an official title and job.

If we're talking about just people that believe in evolution it would be a better comparison and in fact I just heard an self proclaimed atheist on a radio show the other day that said all Christians should be killed off. He was quite serious and cruel about it.

So lets not try and place blame to one side of the issue. There are nuts everywhere that believe all sorts of things.

Unfortunately there are real Christians out there like me that are always fighting against stereotypes because the media loves to jump on wackos like this guy and make him the representative of all Christians.

It would seem that we are always shown in a bad light and that's a shame because people that believe what they see and hear on TV and the radio would be surprised to know what a true Christian is all about.

We certainly have no respect for someone who uses the name of Christianity to spread a message of hatred. It always made me chuckle that the KKK proclaims that they are God loving Christians but then spew hatred towards Jews. Last time I checked Jesus was a Jew...



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
So I disagree with death threats on anyone, but I also disagree with teaching known lies to kids...


No, No, NO. You can NOT follow a statement like "I disagree with death-threats" with the word "but". You can not do it.


There is no KNOWN TRUTH on the Origin of Mankind. there is as of now two theories, one is evolution and one is creationsm. But I don't pretend mine is scientific and proveable like Evolutionists do. Why can't they admit that it is THEORY, and that thy "BELIEVE" it to be true, but that it is not proveable in science, nor recreatable. Thats my only bne with evolutionists. they like to make it seem as if evolution is scietific and it is not, it is a theory of how man originated.


Wrong on almost all accounts.
While you may not "pretend yours is scientific and provable like Evolutionists do", you do constantly insult and attack those that disagree with you. You do know that according to the Bible,saying god is only theory means your going to hell, right?

Evolution is indeed provable in science, just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it's not true. You keep saying "theory" like it means it must be false. The way gasoline makes your car move is only a "theory" too. It's just that unlike creationism, there is evidence to prove that theory, just like evolution.
In fact, just about everything humans know is based on theory's, so should we just stop teaching everything based on a theory? Sounds like a good plan, we can all go back to sitting in caves trying to decide if rocks are edible.

Deny Ignorance.


I believe everyone has the Right to think and believe as they want to

No, you don't, you insult and attack those that disagree with you.

but i don't believe everyone has the right to say belief and guesses are Facts and science. There ar many on ATS that do that, many threads and comments say clearly that they believe that to be the case and that they have a theory. But some say it is FACT, this is pure non scietific hogwash to say the least.


Is it as much hogwash as saying "the big invisible man snapped his fingers and made everything"? Nope.
Notice again how you follow a definitive statement with the word "but".
"I believe everyone has the right to believe and think as they want to, except for not really."

Deny Ignorance.


There are even some people that subscribe to both theories, that is to say God created it and let evolution carry it out, I don't buy this cause my God aint so cruel or stupid that he can't get it right the first time...


Because you know him right? Did he come to your BBQ or something and tell you?

Deny Ignorance


So in answering your question I believ in Creationism, I can not prove it scientifically and it takes faith to believe in it, as does evolution so just say so and you will get no fight from me for your theories. I will only respond to those that call it FACT. If it were fact we wouldn't be looking for missing links or teaching children known lies.


While you rely on "faith"and ignore evidence, I rely on evidence and ignore faith because "faith" has NO PLACE in the scientific process.The very definition of faith is believing in something that is unprovable. So, you can believe in something that has NO evidence for it, none, zero, zilch, not even a tiny tiny bit, but if we believe in something that can be and has been verified, were all stupid, right?

Deny Ignorance.


I knwo some of you would like some known lies that I am talking about as an example so here is one of them in most all American textbooks for elementary schoolers..

Archioptrix - bad spelling I am sure but it is the dinosaur bird fossil that has been PROVEN a HOAX, but it is still in the textbooks as Proof of Evolution. I think most reasonable and sane people would think that teaching the kids the KNOWN truths and facts as facts is acceptable but that teaching the known lies as facts as reprihensible..


Ahhh, the joy of ignorance, how nice it must feel to think your always right.
Only two of the 10 Archaeopteryx fossils authenticity has been questioned, and that was because the scientists who questioned it were unfamiliar with the processes of lithification. They were proven wrong and the fossils are no longer in question.
en.wikipedia.org...
Oh wait, I forgot you laughed at Wikipedia, as I'm sure you laugh off any source of info that is contrary to the way you think. Heres a few more;
www.talkorigins.org...
www.chebucto.ns.ca...

Deny Ignorance.


I hope that clears that up for sme of you, I don't call creationism a scientific fact it is a theory.


Again, you do realize that denying your lord as a fact is a sin that will get you sent to hell, don't you? Or are you denying it as fact because you think it will appease us, much like Peter denied Christ to appease the guards?

P.S. Why do you capitalize the word "evolutionists"? Why do you call Darwin "your Jesus". Are you so uncomfortable with people not believing in the invisible man who lives in the sky that you have to think of evolution as a religion?

P.P.S. Why cant god help you with your spelling? Honestly, if you want to be taken seriously, at least pretend to run a spell check.

P.P.P.S. With you here, the freaks sending death threats and the bogus lawsuit that i guarantee won't make it past the first day in court, I am ashamed to live in Colorado.


[edit on 18-7-2007 by Tiloke]



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Now I am being warned, LOL...


As well you should be.



I will no longer be responding to Major in any thread for any reason, Deny Ignorance


Because Major speaks the truth and you don't want to hear it.


It is your type of mentality that fosters and breeds ignorance. Keep those ears shut and those eyes closed



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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UPDATE ON STORY:

The man who threatened them skipped town. The department has asked for a restraining order against him:
blog.wired.com...

He's been pestering them for over a year. Panda's thumb has some of the email exchange -- notice he says "they must go" a lot of times:
www.pandasthumb.org...

The letters were slipped under the professors' doors and included images of a skull and crossbones:
blog.wired.com...

...and he interacted with the Denver Post on this:
blog.wired.com...

...a snippet of his missive (if you don't want to click):


EBIO professors are terrorists against America and against the true spirit of humanity, which consists of created beings beholden to their Creator!

EBIO Professors are also intellectual and spiritual child abusers of their young and impressionable students.

In addition, the New Testament states clearly that Adam and Eve were our original parents and that Noah's Flood was an historical reality. So the EBIO department not only blasphemes God, who is invisible, but it blasphemes His Only Begotten Son and our Messiah, Jesus Christ, which is more unforgivable given the clear manifestations of His Godliness and Holiness and the confirmation of all He claimed to be through His historic Resurrection from the dead!

For all these reason all God-fearing and Truth-loving persons must say,

"They must go!"


Evil. Very evil.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 10:55 PM
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Wow, where does one even begin with the Christian bash fest here? I think I see how the game is played. One person finds the most extreme example of someone who calls himself a Christian to start a post and then everyone else piles on. Fun!

Now, let's wade our way through some of the muck here...

"Sometimes I think that Christian extremists are as dangerous as Muslim extremists. However it seems that one is portrayed in the media more commonly than the other."

Hmmm. When was the last time "Christian extremists" hijacked civilian airplanes and intentionally flew them into heavily populated buildings? When was the last time "Christian extremists" strapped bombs onto their children and sent them off to go blow themselves up in a crowded mall? When was the last time "Christian extremists" made a webcast showing themselves chopping the heads of people of other faiths?

"Evolution is fact. There is evidence of evolution."

Oh really? First, let's make a distinction. There is MICRO evolution and then there is MACRO evolution. MICRO evolution is indeed a fact. It has been observed and can be duplicated. An example of MICRO evolution would white moths becoming more prevalent than brown moths of the same species due to changes in their environment.

An example of MACRO evolution would be fish turning into a completely different species, such as rats. It is absolutely 1000% NOT, I repeat NOT FACT. Is there "evidence" that would seem to point to MACRO evolution? Yes, if you look at through the lens of one who believes in it in the first place. Circular reasoning is a favorite tactic of the evolutionist. Is there "evidence" that would seem to point AGAINST MACRO evolution? Once again, absolutely.

"It continually amazes me how many otherwise rational people hold on to these antiquated and irrational belief systems, for no apparent reason other than tradition or upbringing."

Do you mean the belief that there is no God? Do you know what the statistical odds are that life exists on this planet purely by chance? Start with a "zero", put a decimal point after that, and then add on enough zeros to get a hand cramp. The odds are so infinitely small that it is called "statistically insignificant". The implications are huge when you examine the inverse odds. In other words, the odds that life exists by design and not chance are so overwhelming that to think life on this planet (much less the ENTIRE UNIVERSE) exists purely by chance (evolution) is a bigger leap of faith to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and every other mythical character you can think of.

"Faith lets people invoke a supernatural entity rather that take responsibility for their own lives."

Not belieing in a supernatural entity lets people live with an attitude of "this is it, so I better get all I can, while I can". Believing in a supernatural entity will certainly make one be more concerned about the eternal ramifications for their actions than not believing in one.

"Ok, this how I see the whole hypocrecy of cristianity in our nation. Keeping the children dumb so they make ingnorant adults."

Hmm. Evidently you were raised as a "cristian".

"And to claim that we are bringing democracy and freedom to the world when in our own nation we have radical christians trying to control education."

Actually, we have radical humanists trying to control education, and doing a pretty good job of it. You don't like the idea of evolution being forbidden to be taught, but you don't have any problem at all that any teaching of "intelligent design" being taught is forbidden, do you? Most creationists and IDers simply want the weaknesses of evolution to be taught as well as their "strengths", but evolutionists absolutely refuse to even admit they have a horribly weak case, much less allow it to be taught in public schools.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by GLDNGUN
You don't like the idea of evolution being forbidden to be taught, but you don't have any problem at all that any teaching of "intelligent design" being taught is forbidden, do you?


That's absolutely correct. Because science is about observable events and controlled experiments to gather evidence, of which there is plenty for evolution, and ID and creationism are simply philosophies with no empirical evidence whatsoever.

Your Christian philosophies have no business being taught in public school with children from many different faiths, and none at all. Period.

You can get as indignant as you like, but it still makes you deluded. You just happen to be cleverer than most of the self-deluded. But the most intelligent victims of brainwash are usually the hardest to deprogram.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 11:18 PM
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"What I find very interesting is that instead of letting people ask questions and come up with their own conclusions, that there are still people out there determined to tell others what to believe, and what they believe is truth."

I could not have said it better myself. Why is it that evolutionists don't want the subject even debated?

"I'd like to point out the similarities this specific case holds with the Taliban.

www.foxnews.com...

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Taliban militants beheaded a teacher in a central Afghan town while his wife and eight children watched, officials said Wednesday, describing the latest in a string of attacks targeting educators at schools where girls study.

Four men stabbed Malim Abdul Habib eight times late Tuesday before decapitating him in the courtyard of his home in Qalat, said Ali Khail, a spokesman for the provincial government of Zabul, where the attack took place."

You lost me. Just where/when did the "Christian extremists" behead a teacher? Did I miss that in the story?

"No other evidence we collected that suggests another means to how we got here..I wish I could put it in words you'd understand."

I wish you could too, because that statement is absurd. For example, if macroevolution happened, where are the billions of transitional fossils that should be there? Billions! Not a handful of questionable transitions. Why don’t we see a reasonably smooth continuum among all living creatures, or in the fossil record, or both? The evidence here does NOT in any way suggest evolution.

"There you go confusing scientific terminology again. Creationism is a hypothesis. Unfortunately for you, it's a hypothesis with no testable evidence to back it up. "

And the TESTABLE evidence that backs up evolution is???

"even gravity is a theory. you understand?"

LOL. Now, it's REALLY getting deep. I hate to break this to you, but it's called "The Universal LAW of Gravity", NOT the "theory of gravity". Again, gravity is testable and has been tested for thousands of years. And the TESTABLE evidence that backs up evolution is???

"for the life of me, i can not understand why people think so small. i mean, just cause we don't know the answer to this or that today, don't mean we won't figure it out tomorrow..."

I'm confused here. Were you talking about creationists who don't have the answer for everything? Certainly you wouldn't apply a different standard to them. Would you?

"Evolution is indeed provable in science"

Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong again. And the TESTABLE evidence that backs up evolution is???

"While you rely on "faith"and ignore evidence, I rely on evidence and ignore faith because "faith" has NO PLACE in the scientific process.The very definition of faith is believing in something that is unprovable."

LOL Then by your very definition, the belief in evolution is based on FAITH. I agree 100%. As stated in my previous post, the odds are OVERWHELMING in favor of life existing as a result of "intelligent design" and AGAINST all of "this" being here by chance.



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