A conservative guy with a few guns and rifles point of view on 911.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

Originally posted by masterp
It's a Zionist game, please don't fall for it. If you want to destroy USA, nothing can do it better than a civil war.

Ok so we sit back and watch the America be destroyed by our politicians.

I'd rather fix it myself with the help of my brothers and sisters than watch a bunch of corrupt politikos steal, lie, and cheat their way back into power.

We need a change, revolution whether peaceful or violent, will fix things.

But you will not fix it by civil war, you will destroy it!

Im not going to bother anymore. My blood has boiled over too much already.

Fine, stay in your borders, stroke your guns and pollute the earth and piss of the world.

The arrogence, the hypocracy, the endless fearmongering.

Your polluting a world i love and i am tired of dealing with the bull#.

Oh and if i am told to either open my eyes, or 'be a sheep' or any more of that moronic bull# once more i am seriously going to reconsider the general intelligence of this forum. Saying those things just promotes a 'join us or be a Pariah' ideal.

Just like the one you fight.

The Hypocracy...im tired of it.

Well I am sorry your blood is boiling over, mine boiled just a bit when I saw your attack on the way we live in our country, and you calling our constitution "parchment". I dont care if you open your eyes, and I dont care if you join our fight, it isnt yours to join in the first place, and it isnt your place to tell us how it should be. You should stay out of forums like this if all your are going to do is bash our way of life, like I said in my first post, butt the hell out!

Originally posted by masterp
But you will not fix it by civil war, you will destroy it!

I am not asking for a civil war, I am asking for a revolution. There is a large difference.

For one, I do not wish to kill any of my American brothers and sisters who have done nothing wrong.

The problem lies within our corrupt system of governing. They need to be held accountable for all their lies, scandals, and murders. This means everyone currently working for the government gets an unpaid vacation effective immediately.

I do not wish to kill anyone either. I'd rather the 'regime' change be bloodless. But it doesn't always happen that way.

We need a direct democracy, not our pseudo-republic that we live in now. We've become degenerates worse off than the Romans!

Enough!

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Fine, stay in your borders, stroke your guns and pollute the earth and piss of the world.

The arrogence, the hypocracy, the endless fearmongering.

Your polluting a world i love and i am tired of dealing with the bull#.

Don’t come on here leveling your accusations at another nation when you don’t even have the intestinal fortitude to say where it is that you are from. It is rude.
If you are going to trash talk another nation, at least put a location on your mini-profile.

For all I know your nation may be more violent than ours, and your nation may pollute more than ours.

But the bottom line is that our guns don’t affect you, wherever you are, so don’t worry about it. Discussing the merits of gun control with Americans is one thing but allowing your feelings to be hurt by things that don’t concern or hurt you is just silly.

Oh and if i am told to either open my eyes, or 'be a sheep' or any more of that moronic bull# once more i am seriously going to reconsider the general intelligence of this forum. Saying those things just promotes a 'join us or be a Pariah' ideal.

Well then open your little sheep eyes and people will stop saying it to you.

good video. more people need to speak out...

Wow. That was quite a mouthful. He's got balls, I'll give him that, he's also a tad scary, he looks just like an average joe, clean cut, etc... But with those guns he owns... I wouldnt be surprised if he has a few kills under his belt before his days end, and Im not saying that BECAUSE he has guns, I'm saying that because he really comes across as somebody who is at wits end. He's acting like he's backed in a corner, you back an animal into a corner and binary thinking comes in, kill or die? Maybe what he's saying is true, but he still scares me, I wouldnt want him in my neighborhood, and I feel for his children and wife.

Originally posted by jtma508

Originally posted by pyrolimeade
I laughed at this. The argument of money not being backed by silver or gold is meaningless. Nothing has any worth. To think that silver is magically "worth more" than paper is to think that orange is "worth more" than green.

You're wrong. Metals do have worth based upon their industrial uses. Paper is... well paper. And currency, having been preprinted, has less worth than plain paper. A given weight of a metal can be sold on the international market (like any other commodity) for its prevailing price on that day. So your clever orange vs. green argument is fatally flawed. Good try.

The better way to look at it is things have worth according to the demand for them and how aboundant or difficult it is to obtain. Supply and demand. Worth is artificial, it is based on perception.
Our perception of things is controlled by our demand for it, knowledge of things is dynamic, so therefore the use and demand for them is constantly
changing.

and you calling our constitution "parchment

Uhhh....isnt it parchment?

Well, you see, its all down to what you mean by 'joining our fight'

1. Is this an open arms confrontation? or something diplomatic?
2. If you succeed in blowing your government sky high and win this revolution, what will you do then?


***

I am not asking for a civil war, I am asking for a revolution. There is a large difference.

For one, I do not wish to kill any of my American brothers and sisters who have done nothing wrong.

because no one gets killed in revolutions?

www.geocities.com...
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu...
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

Don’t come on here leveling your accusations at another nation when you don’t even have the intestinal fortitude to say where it is that you are from. It is rude.

I live in Rydalmere, Sydney, Australia. Happy?

But the bottom line is that our guns don’t affect you

Actually, they do. the size and military power of the US forces the world to try and compete.

Well then open your little sheep eyes and people will stop saying it to you.

Here is my evidence of the stupidity of some people.

I come here, i open my eyes, what do i see? #ing Morons, thats what. There are alot of people on this site who are quite intelligent and know that evidence does not always mean truth.

I am truly very sorry for you.

Thank you for being yourself, i really know where the bottom rung of humanity is now.

I offer an initial apology if, in responding to this particular missive [I felt so compelled], I've posted similar to others who were more eloquent in their own response ... at risk ... I'll carry on:

I agree, this is a compelling oration from a person who admits to border line hating my [liberal] guts. And I'm sure he does, though for the record I do not hate him, nor his guts. In fact, I appreciate his guts. And I couldn't agree with him more. Something tells me, even though he border line hates me, he'd still defend [to the death?] my right to my views.

We The People, in my humble [if not outspoken] opinion need to step up and ... well, what? Demand that Congress act more aggressively? Heh. *cough* That's not worked ... at least not yet.

The man's correct, arm yourselves, just in case. I personally was of a/the liberal camp and thought guns should be ... not necessarily abolished, I've friends who literally feed their families off the hunt they kill ... but restricted. Restricted? Now I feel the fool to have entertained such ideas. The right to bear arms, in these times, seems essential. Yikes. I'm off to buy a shotgun.

No. Joke.

I own 1.7-acres of Minnesota River Valley ... water from a well tapped via the natural aquifer below. I plan [ideally] to be entirely off the grid within three years. In the event all Minnesota goes to hell in a handbasket I'm prepared thusly ... but in the event that any catastrophe occured, and neighbors decided they were going to take from me [and my daughter] my crops, or my water ... um ... I need to be prepared to take care of my own. And I, in such a circumstance, will do it.

On the other hand, if said neighbors came and *asked* for help I would help. Just don't steal from me.

How sad is it that these sort of scenarios have played a part in my dreams of recent, and not scatteringly. Often.

My daughter will be 17 on Sept. 22 ... honestly, I'm hoping we can get our s**t together as Americans no matter whomever, or of what party, becomes president.

No, instead, as the man in the video intimated, we Americans should be on each the other's team. No matter our differences.

It's OUR country. Lets us take back control.

So mote it be.

AmberLynne... I can understand where you are coming from. I think lots of us who see the writing on the wall are beginning to plan survival models. The problem is, survival models pit each of us against everyone else. It is the epitomy of divide-and-conquer and exactly what anyone wishing to dismantle our Constitutional government wants and needs.

I'm a huge advocate of survival planning and always have been. But the true fact is, it's virtually impossible for an individual or small group to defend themselves for any meaningful length of time. For that you need more eyes, more hands, more force. You need your community/neighbors.

This gentleman's video was the camel's straw that casued me to start this thread: Welcome to the New 60's. We need to start getting more people aware of what is going on and we need to do it quickly. The time may very well come when our ability (and right) to discuss and publish these ideas will be terminated. That time, I fear, is sooner than any of us want to believe.

I urge everyone here at ATS to start thinking NOW about what we can do to start the process of turning the tide. This systematic erosion of our rights, our economy and our country cannot happen without our consent or at least our apathy. We are all quilty of too much of the latter. The internet affords us the unprecedented ability to reach massive numbers of people quickly. Time is short. If people here in the ATS Commuity believe half of what they say they believe then they have an obligation to act. Standing by, in full acknowledgement of what is transpiring, is like holding someone's coat while they molest your child. We can do something about this. We have to do something. The alternative is unnaceptable.


[edit on 22-7-2007 by jtma508]

I liked the video Piacenza, like I do most of the vids you post here.

The sad thing is that the true facts of 9/11 will never be answered for the general public. There is a reason that certain events, even after 5 years, 31 years, 100 years, are considered to be a conspiracy. JFK, Pearl Harbor, 9/11 etc. all contain hard evidence that each of these events are not what the Government/Media would lead us to believe whatsoever.
People like the guy on the video are the kind of people we need to rebel against the Governments BS. Nothing will ever been done about 9/11 though, which is a true shame. There isn't really any way that the public can get the Gov to fess up.

Would someone please answer me.

If the Government turns 'evil' and does all this, you fight and win. What will you do then?

Obviously, you cant put another government in. It may happen again

You might put a single leader in if someone leads the resistance, but this may be a very bad move.

So what will you do? Separate into your states?

Will every American live off their own and live of the land?

Its a strange thought.

You're missing the entire point.

Government is supposed to be by the people, for the people, of the people. It is no longer so.

Abolishing said government does not mean we'd have an instantly better country overnight.

There is a great deal of work to be done, far more than any of us imagines.

But I would rather work my ass off for the rest of my life reconstructing our great nation than watch our politicians and bankers (among others) systematically remove my God-given rights.

You do not live in America. Fine. You cannot possibly understand the hardships we deal with regarding our police, taxes, politicians, etc. You would have to stay here for an extended period of time to witness the corruption of our government.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Will every American live off their own and live of the land?

If only we all had the common sense to do that!

We're raised to feel obligated to others. We're raised to feel obligated to our "leaders", who "lead" us. This is done by associating these corrupt people with "our country".

But they don't live where I live, or want what I want in the world, and to be quite frank, I don't even know these people that run "my country". I do not feel obligated to them in any way, and in this regard I don't feel the least "patriotic". I feel attachment to my friends and family, my local community its geography, and other aspects of American culture, even a lot of flawed ones.

Yes, it would be nice if everyone just went back to providing only for themselves and those around them.

I just posted a message to Kurt (author of the video) and I thought some of you might be interested so I'll repeat it here:

Greetings Kurt,

I'm Harry. Just saw your video featured on ATS

I too "hate" what you call liberals but I come from an entirely different part of the political spectrum from you. I call myself a democratic anarchist. Nevertheless you said something which is very close to one of my own goals when you spoke of needing to link arms - even with those liberals you despise - in order to defend ourselves against the common enemy (creeping tyranny). This is my obsession too.

It is my view that libertarians of both right and left have a lot more in common with each other than either of us have in common with the control freaks who are attacking our liberty on a daily basis. You can tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I'd be fascinated to know your response to two of my blog entries. The first deals with the shooting at Virginia Tech and, deals with the question of gun control. It concludes with sentiments I think you would agree with:

"The real reason they [US Citizens] need those guns is because, sooner - I suspect - rather than later, they're going to have to start defending themselves against their Police State." You can find it here

The second entry is called "The Democratic Cannibals" and is a bit more "academic" in that it deals with the notions of Democracy and Anarchism but it concludes with my attempt to reconcile Left and Right. You can find that one here

In both you will find links to my work on ID Cards, Surveillance and the Police State. I suspect there's not much you would disagree with - which, considering you define yourself as a conservative, and I define myself as a left wing anarchist, would be pretty remarkable!

Regards

Harry Stottle

If only we all had the common sense to do that!

Doubt it would work, someone will do something to gain an advantage, others will complain, conflict will arise, sides will be taken, civil war, government will rise from conflict and youll be exactly where you started

heheh

bsbray, you may not feel patriotic because that is what has been pounded into your brain by our mainstream media. Remember however, dissent is patriotic, holding your government accountable is patriotic, questioning is patriotic. There were a few dissidents back a couple hundred years ago that defined american patriotism, dont ever forget that.

Octavious I thought you were done with this thread. Being as we are kind of looking for a change to the things that you say bother you about our country, you know forcing our way of life down other peoples throats etc etc. You are either extremely retarded, or just looking to stir up some sh!t, probably the later of the two, either way I refer you to what I have said before, butt out! If you cant come up with anything but bashing us and our country, leave the conversation, you wont be missed.

People are waking up to the corruption that fills this country, there are alot more people on our side then there are against us, believe me. I think it just boils down to them not knowing how to go about knowing it is ok to not only think that something is wrong but voice what they feel is wrong without retribution from the government. How sad is that, how sad is it that we are scared to speak out for fear of punishment? That should be enough right there for people to see something isnt right, nazi germany, soviet russia, china, they all have/had similar policies against speaking out. I dont know what everyone else is doing, but what I have done is emailed as many people as I can with a link to freedom to fascism, emailed people with links to Ron Pauls website. I went yesterday and bought blank DVD's and am in the process of burning some Alex Jones films, I have also printed out some of Ron Pauls campaign fliers. The next step is to get out and start putting them on cars, handing them out to people. You can buy freedom to fascism for a buck a piece if you buy them in bulk, so I plan on ordering some of those and giving them to people and telling them to hand it out to people after they watch it.

I was glad to see this guys video on youtube, he went through the same transformation as I did. He still places a bit much I am a conservative to his talk, I am a conservative also, but more importantly I am an american. Left right, shouldnt matter right now, we need to put emphasis on right and wrong instead. You know his goat herder statement, yeah I guess political correct talk it wasnt, but I understood the point he was making by saying it. He is angry, he feels backed into a corner, but I tell you what I wouldnt hesitate to have him on my side or in my neighborhood as someone else states. I dont feel sorry for his wife and kids, I truly believe that he is doing what he is doing for his wife and kids, it is the same reason that I am pissed, the same reason I am willing to step up and do something. I want my child to live free, and I will spend sleepless nights, spend my days off, not watch one Notre Dame football game to make sure I do all I can to ensure she lives free.

Octavius... I don't believe we need to dismantle our government at all. What we need to do is force our existing government to operate the way it was originally designed and to adhere to the precepts of the Contract between the People of the United States and its elected representatives: The U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.

The problems we have and the dire future we face are a result of our politicians (and their behind-the-curtain sponsors) slowly circumventing these precepts and the rule of law. We need to emplace a means of holding elected officials responsible for their oath of office: to uphold and protect the Constitution. What the majority of politicians are doing today --- both Democrat and Republican --- is treasonous.

People hate guns until it is themselves who are the being attacked by criminals. Everyone trash talks the army until it is their country who needs the help.
Guns are tools. It is all in what you do with it. Think of the wars fought before guns. Limbs hacked off, blunt trama, hours spent laying in a field waiting to die. People have always found ways to kill other people. Has any one thought of how guns have made war more humane, because the time experienced in pain is less due to the fact guns are more effective than swords or clubs. If someone hits another person in the head with say, a hammer, are we going to blame the person or blame the fact that hammers exist.
Gun laws only make it easier for criminals to do what they do knowing the populus has no means to defend themselves. Criminals don't follow the rules anyway.
Your a fool if you think a gun free world is a crime free world.