Out of all the UFO's what shape is most likley the real deal?

Hello everyone.

I’ve been reading the forums on this site for ages now and enjoy both the informative discussions and the mindless banter that appears everyday. The UFO section particularly fascinates me, as the above examples are no more clearly defined than in this section of ATS.

It seems that most people are either believers and know everything about the Alien situation or they are complete sceptics shouting down any snippet of information that appears on this forum (not helped by the hoaxers I might add!)

A few who I respect tend to go for the middle ground obviously trying to come to a conclusion based on the evidence or sometimes lack of evidence that can be presented on the subject.

Recently I have been trying to arrange my own thoughts on this matter and thought posting this may help.

First of all I want to keep the Aliens and the UFO’s separate. What do we know about UFO’s? Well here’s what I’m aware off.

We have sightings of UFO’s all over planet in different shapes and sizes
We have sightings of UFO’s in Space
We have sightings of UFO’s on Mars
If anyone else knows of any more locations please feel free to post.

We can categorise the UFO’s seen on earth into Saucer shapes, Cigar Shapes & Triangle shapes

The UFO’s seen in Space vary quite a bit but a common one that comes to mind are the odd giant doughnut shapes.

Mars, well we have photos off the Russian Phobus probes and I believe a thread is currently active showing something captured by the Spirit probes so there is defiantly UFO activity.

Now does anybody have a theory or just know why we never seem to see the same UFO’s that we do on Earth in Space etc? My own theory on this is that quite simply a lot of the UFO’s we have seen on Earth are of Human origin. I think that both the Triangles and the Saucer are more than likely built by us possibly with technology not of this world. The Cigar shaped objects seem to have similarity with UFO’s spotted in Space and Mars and I find everything makes more sense to me if the Aliens only have one style of ship!

Which of course opens up a can of worms regarding the Aliens! How many species do we currently have? How do we know this?

From what I understand the possible crash landings of Roswell indicated a similarity of what we now call the Greys so I can see where they come into the story but what about all the others?

I’m not sure if this is most thought out post I’m sort of just writing as it comes here so forgive me if this doesn’t read well. But what are everyone else’s thought on this subject.

In summary: Out of all the different styles of UFO we talk about on this forum what ones do you think are the most likely candidates to be the real deal? As for Aliens do you think there even here? If so how many species and why?


[edit on 11-7-2007 by Hope_for_reason]

Oops posted twice in error could a mod remove this one?
Thanks

In spite of the declarations of foaming UFO fanatics and self-righteous pseudo-scientists out there, we have no evidence whatsoever of intelligent extraterrestrial visitations upon the earth. Sorry, but Roswell is just a comical legend, and the data is hopelessly flawed. The thousands (millions?) of "alien abduction" stories today are products of delusion and hoax, in my opinion, as no "abductee" has ever produced irrefutable evidence to support his story. And, since our monitoring capabilities are extremely limited on both the Moon and Mars, I refuse to accept any claims of UFO sightings on either of those worlds — the hard evidence just doesn't exist. I know a lot of people out there will be grossly offended with these observations, and to those people I say get an education and stop watching Star Trek.

Now, I'm not saying that UFOs don't exist. They do apparently zip about in our skies with some frequency — I've seen a few UFOs myself, and I'm well able to distinguish commercial and military aircraft from the "unidentifieds"... However, I don't jump to the conclusion that UFOs are extraterrestrial in origin, I just accept them as unidentified. Frankly, I think these craft and their occupants are just as terrestrial in origin as we are. I think they live here.

As to which shape of UFO is likely to be the "real deal" (meaning extraterrestrial in origin), I think we're not technically advanced enough to say with certainty what is or is not a "likely" extraterrestrial design. All we can do, really, is try to catalog certain shapes based on our earthly observations.

Anybody who has really researched their UFO lore knows that "discs" and "cylinders" are the oldest UFOs in Earthly skies, inasmuch as they appear in some of the earliest known petroglyphs as well as in a wide range of other illustrations from antiquity right up to the present. Today we call them "saucers" and "cigar-shaped craft," but these things have been sighted (and recorded) all throughout human history. Hell, even the the oral traditions of the Hopi indians — arguably the oldest native people in North America — include descriptions of folks riding around on "shields" (saucers) in the sky and of folks being herded Noah's-Ark-style into huge "reeds" (cylinders) which delivered them from global catastrophe.

Ancient accounts such as this tell me is that discs and cylinders have been humming around Earth and sometimes even descending on human populations for thousands of years. Again, this doesn't mean that the things are extraterrestrial in origin. I'm inclined to think that these others who zip about our skies are another, older, intelligent Earth species.

By "older" I mean, perhaps, on the order of hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of years more advanced than humanity. We can't capture them or their technology any more than a chimpanzee can capture one of our Stealth Fighters. I mean, that's the possible difference between us and them — they may see us as gibbering primates, still burning plant matter for fuel, still waging territorial feuds like the bunch of dimwitted apes that we are.

And, perhaps, we're not terribly interesting to them, except maybe when we clumsily detonate a nuclear firecracker in the desert. This activity might warrant their attention, to be sure, in the same way a chimpanzee firing a .38 Special might tend to warrant our attention.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 7/11/2007 by Doc Velocity]

In the 50s the saucer was the main type of sighting now 60 years later it s all hi tech ,orbs etc or invisible, it seems to change as we change which must mean something .

Yet theres still not a decent photo out there that would prove they exist....millions of cameras and all you get is a blur or a dot

UAP manifest in all shapes, often UAP have been observed changing from one shape to another. Often several UAP of differing shapes are seen together.

So trying to categorize UAP ('UFOs') by shape alone is going to be in direct conflict with observation. (Note that other characteristics and behaviors of UAP remain consistent despite the differing shapes that manifest.)

Hope that helps.

If they are Aliens, and if their propulsion systems truly are based on the amplification of gravity, then I guess you could shape your craft any way you like. As long as you have the right gravity amplifiers you could supposedly fly a castle around...

That being said, an oval-shaped "disc" probably is the most ideal shape all around if you think about it...

[edit on 11-7-2007 by Diplomat]

There are as many different types of craft as we have automobiles, trucks, Suvs, buses, vans, you name it. It is entirely possible that the varying types come from different planets too. And yes I would say that they do up grade from time to time. Most likely many sightings are of our covert craft, but not all.

I know personally one shape that's the real deal, the V-shape. I've seen 3 of those. I've read opinions that any "winged" ufo is bound to be human designed. I doubt it. Boomerangs have been around since at least the early '70s. Over 30 years later the military still aren't using them? They're still flying them over cities? Makes no sense.

Also, I agree with Doc Velocity. I think they're earth-based. One of the most common assumptions I hear from debunkers and believers alike is that they're extraterrestrial. (The debunkers wonder why so many ufos would travel millions of miles to do little or nothing here.) If you look at the history of ufos going back to antiquity and the diversity of craft, it makes much more sense that they're based here on earth and/or nearby on the moon or other planets in our solar system.

However:

And, perhaps, we're not terribly interesting to them

Could be, but I think it might have more to do with their not wanting us being too focused on them. If most of the population knew undeniably we coexisted with aliens, our culture and social development would be vastly altered. They may fear harming us by their very presence. Or an external imposition like that might skew the results of their observations or foul up their experiments.

Originally posted by antar
And yes I would say that they do up grade from time to time.

You know, I've heard this theory issued from the UFO community for many years, even decades — that the reason we see so many varied configurations of UFOs (saucers, cylinders, triangles, boomerangs, polyhedrons, and even gelatinous UFOs) is that the others periodically "upgrade" their hardware.

Unfortunately, this doesn't at all explain why the saucer shapes that are found chiseled and painted onto rock surfaces dating back thousands of years are pretty much identical to the saucer shapes we still see today. To me it seems that the saucer-shaped and cylindrical UFOs have remained basically unchanged throughout most of human history.

That's one of the main reasons why I believe they are at least a few hundred millennia more advanced than we are — you only have to upgrade your hardware when you're still learning how to design it. I think that when you've had several tens of thousands of years to work out the bugs in your technology, then any given unit of that technology should perform pretty much flawlessly for many thousands of years to come, without any "upgrades" — we're talking about perfect technology, something that is only a fantasy to the best scientific minds today.

So, the saucers of the Stone Age are probably the same saucers that we see today in the Information Age — and they're probably still under warranty.

See, I think the others outgrew their "upgrade" phase a couple of hundred thousand years ago. Perhaps they hit the pinnacle of technological growth, creating perfect, frictionless, low-power, high-performance craft that never require maintenance and never wear out. That's still just a dream to us, so we continue researching and developing and upgrading our technology, working toward that elusive perfect technology that may be hundreds of centuries beyond our grasp.

Interestingly, the really dramatic changes in UFO design that we've seen in the last 20 or so years seem to coincide perfectly with the advent of PhotoShop. So, these "new UFOs" aren't a product of their technological upgrades, but of ours.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 7/12/2007 by Doc Velocity]

I feel real shape for the visitors is somehow organic, in the round or classic oval for whatever reason. For some reason, I see a jellyfish likeness...
Classic cigar and sharp saucer shape are simply hoxes or seen at distance/level/speed, that look like that to our eyes.
Feel most are not seen by us, and not sure why any let themselves be seen at any time...that reason could be the most interesting of all.
Not sure of feelings of folks who adhere of dozens of different visitors with different craft like new roll-outs from Detroit or Japan visiting our Earth, who knows?
My bet, its a single source. Different dimension, time travel, a visitor with very important reasons to come to this small rock in space...too many try too hard and confuse the issue.

[edit on 13-7-2007 by lyingunderoath]

When you consider that the average planet of the known universe is about 3.7 billion years older than our earth, it would seem likely that if interstellar and or intergalatic travel were at all possilbe then it would have happened over and over. Quite likely, Einstein was correct about not being able to exceed the speed of light. Therefore, physical travel between the planets scattered around the universe is not at all likely--ever. Our continual sighting of UFO's (make that read alien spacecraft) is probably nothing more that our own wishful thinking. I wish this were not so, but unfortunately, it is.

Originally posted by lyingunderoath
Classic cigar and sharp saucer shape are simply hoxes or seen at distance/level/speed, that look like that to our eyes.
[edit on 13-7-2007 by lyingunderoath]

Hoaxes? You're making a blanket statement that cigar-shaped (cylindrical) and saucer-shaped (disc) UFOs are hoaxes? Hang on a moment, I hate to eat up bandwidth, but I want to share a few such "hoaxes" with you...



Now, the above image is a detail of a much larger cave painting (in France) that seems to be brimming with very familiar UFO shapes. As you can see, we're looking at the classic domed saucer profile, as well as a more cone-shaped object that seems to be swooping upwards. Age of this illustration, 17,000 to 15,000 years BC. Next...



The above image is a detail of an illustration from a 10th Century Tibetan manuscript. Maybe those are sombreros floating in the air next to those guys, eh? Next...



These images above are details of 14th Century European tapestries, with some courtly ladies in the foreground, and some more of those prehistoric sombreros floating around in the distance. Next...



Now, the woodcut images above are important in that they show two separate sightings of pretty much the same UFO activity in the skies above 16th Century Europe. These sightings were reported in the news publications of the day as some sort of sky battle between dark-colored spheres (or discs) and light-colored spheres (or discs), which seemed to be dispensed by huge tubes (cylinders) hanging in the sky. The discs were seen to fly into and out of these cylinders. Most interesting is the Nuremberg woodcut, in which a couple of crashed discs can be seen burning out in the countryside, sending up plumes of smoke. These sightings remain profoundly unexplained. Next...



From about the same time as the spectacular 16th Century Basel and Nuremberg sightings, in the above image we have another of those European tapestries with classic domed saucer profiles hanging in the sky (two on the left and one on the far right). Next...



Now, the above religious painting from the year 1710 is supposed to illustrate the Baptism of Christ (you can just barely see John baptizing Jesus in the lower center)... Why the painter chose to include a massive saucer levitating in the sky with four flood lights or energy beams focused on the baptism is enigmatic, at least. Next...



Skeptics have tried to debunk the above illustration (and story) on more than one occasion. This illustration was published in 1825, depicting a bizarre craft (a boat?) that appeared on a beach in Japan, accompanied by a strange occupant. What's so interesting about this illustration — to me, anyway — is that it includes little explanations of various aspects of the craft. For instance, it says the hull of this craft was apparently made of glass and iron. Not your first choice for boat-building materials in the early 19th Century. The illustration also shows the weird symbols that were seen on the inside of the craft (little pyramids and such like).

What we're seeing here are repeated depictions throughout the ages of similarly shaped objects in the sky. Go back 17,000 years and there's a domed saucer profile painted on a rock... Go back 1,000 years and we see illustrations of domed saucer profiles in the sky. Go back 500 years, more of the same. Right up to the present.

So, if this is a hoax, then it's the oldest hoax ever perpetrated by mankind upon mankind. If it's an "optical illusion," then it's the least understood and most profoundly mysterious optical illusion in human experience. We can scientifically explain all other optical illusions, but not these.

Originally posted by Astronomer70
Our continual sighting of UFO's (make that read alien spacecraft) is probably nothing more that our own wishful thinking. I wish this were not so, but unfortunately, it is.

So... What wish do you think the CroMagnon Man was wishing when he scrawled his version of a domed saucer on a cave wall 17,000 years ago? Do you think it was the same wish as that of the medieval artisans who laboriously worked domed saucers into their elaborate tapestries? Would it be the same wish as that of the folks worldwide who saw domed saucers in the skies throughout the 20th Century and right up to the present?

See, the wishful thinking of humankind is entirely variable: Cavemen may wish for more meat and hides; Medieval artisans may wish to glorify God; and modern society may wish for extraterrestrial policemen to come rescue us from ourselves. Every age has its own wishful thinking.

But what remains constant are the identically-shaped objects appearing in our skies for tens of thousands of years. Our wishes and explanations may change, but those damned saucers and cylinders are still up there, unchanged and oblivious to our consternation.

— Doc Velocity

Thanks for the info Doc Velocity I guess its safe to say that sightings of ufo's have been consistant for a very long time especially the "classic" Saucer shape.

I wonder if we have any other shapes like the triangle showing up thoughout history? If not it could add weight to the argument that these triangles are a human creation and are just very top secret.

Well the main one is the saucer shape but over the years more sightings have been seen in different shapes...

But why would there be only 1 shape if they are soo advanced? Look at our planes and stuff we have different looking type of planes and we used different planes for the world wars so why would the aleins only use 1 type?

Doc Velocity

Perhaps wishful thinking was not the correct term to use relative to UFO sightings. However, your characterization of historical sightings as "identical shaped objects" in our skies is, IMHO, no more accurate. More correct would be to call them similarly described sightings of things? thought to be in our skies. About the only objects I can imagine (other than alien spacecraft) that would generate similar descriptions of UFO sightings would be the planets and/or moons of our own solar system, since they certainly have not changed much over the aeons. It is quite possible for atmospheric conditions both during the day and at night--but much more likely during the day--to cause a lensing effect sufficient to allow the sighting of other planets in whole, or in part, by spectators on the ground, or in the air, if they were located in the right area at the right time.

Mind you, I am not saying this is the explanation for such sightings, but it is one possible explanation that is credible.

i believe i've personally seen the classic metallic hat / saucer shaped craft in the 80s, although i was young. a close relative saw the orbs of light phenomenon twice (50s / 80s) , and a close friend saw a 'wtf!' 'burning log' type craft in the sky along with her mother at the same time (80s). all 3 are reasonably commonly reported, altho what i saw i reckon was prolly man made. The lights / orbs have the greatest number sightings imo, and as well have lots of decent youtube footage. i've got nfi what or where they come from.

Originally posted by Spacedeck
But why would there be only 1 shape if they are soo advanced? Look at our planes and stuff we have different looking type of planes and we used different planes for the world wars so why would the aleins only use 1 type?

As I suggested earlier, if these others are several hundreds of thousands (or millions) of years more advanced than us, they may have a "perfect technology" — a product of which may be an aerial craft that no longer requires "upgrades" or maintenance, a craft that lasts for thousands and thousands of years without any modifications.

While our own technology is far from perfect, you can see something similar happening with our own automobiles. Regardless of the manufacturer, all of our cars today are pretty much the same in design and function, with streamlined bodies, internal combustion engines, four wheels on the ground, wiper blades, etc. In fact, our cars today look so similar, you couldn't tell a Chevy from a Ford from a Dodge from a Toyota from a Lexus from a Volvo if they weren't branded with manufacturer logos.

Originally posted by Astronomer70
About the only objects I can imagine (other than alien spacecraft) that would generate similar descriptions of UFO sightings would be the planets and/or moons of our own solar system, since they certainly have not changed much over the aeons.

Or, perhaps, these age-old UFOs represent a perfect technology developed by an intelligent Earth species that predates Mankind by several hundreds of thousands (or millions) of years.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 7/15/2007 by Doc Velocity]