(Scenario)Russia has just struck LA

Ive posted this before, but a while ago,
and im keen to see how the response has changed

Scenario:

A major terrorist attack has wiped out a large portion of Moscow, Intelligence agencies have identified a Mexican terrorist group as being responsible, and video's have emerged of them claiming responsibility.

Russia, in turn, launches a major military offensive against the east coast of America, with the aim of LIBERATING them from a heinous dictator
‘Heir Bush ' attempting to secure the Russian mainland from further 'American-continental' attacks

The Russians claim this is in direct response to the attack, in their efforts to stamp out any associations the Mexican group has, that may lead them to gaining even more destructive weapons from 'neighbouring' regimes.

As now occupied American Citizens,

1. How are you going to respond to this Russian military occupation?
2. How are you going to react to the fellow Americans whom co-operate with the Russians occupying Los Angeles?
3. Will you accept help from other 'enemies' of Russia, if it means the Russian military occupation takes continued attacks?


[edit on 7-4-2007 by worldwatcher]

edit the title to suit you better but please make clear this is "possible" event

we don't want to be alarmists and can false panic

My mistake,
thanks world watcher.

Its amazing the hypocritcal aspect of ATS.
So many people are so quick to label Iraqi's monsters, when they strike americans in the hummers....... yet when the shoes on the other foot, and they realise they'd do the EXACT same thing if they were them, they sew the lips shut.

disgusting!

Atleast admit you have more in common with Iraqi' insurgents than you pretend to...

OK Ill bite....

Let me just tell you my thoughts on this, First of all the only reason most people dont like terrorist/insurgents is because they are killing our friends/family/countrymen that is why we hate(strong word yes but its true for most for others its not that they hate them but they dont like them they kill innocent people on purpose) they also are suppressing their own people and treating their women like dogs(they are stoning women to death for being alone with a male or if she is raped she is killed by her own family for shaming them yet the guy only gets jail if anything but her punishment is death)wtf?

If this stuff was going on in the US and the pres... er dictator was killing hundreds of thousands of Mexican and Americans I can see why if the Russians came here to liberate us some would help. The way your describing it that is without taking into account that a lot of people believe our pres was involved in the killings of thousands of people ( I really dont buy it all but hey anything is possible and shouldnt be ruled out) and only because I know a lot of people think this war is wrong or just plain illegal ok so that aside or without that in mind in your scenario if our dictator invaded Mexico killed thousands with WMD's mind you and torcherd a lot of his own people then and we were in a third world country then YES it is plausible that people would help the Russians without feeling like they are betraying their country.

See we live in a democracy and are free to do anything within the law and are guilty until proven innocent and are not beheaded or murdered from an extreme religious law this makes it hard to help any occupying force on our land and give up our freedom to Russian troops but in your scenario that changes so to finally answer your question here we go

1. I will respond by greeting them with open arms for helping us get rid of our murderous dictator and his royal guards and living in the poor slums if they offered me money for me and my family to survive for some intel guess what theres only so long you can hold off without food or water and you just want to get back to the normal life so I would sell info to them

2. I will be in the group of those americans helping the friendly Russian occupiers.

3. No, see 1 and 2 above I will help the russians with more info about their enemies helping with the attacks.

Now these 3 answers are for your scenario only to say that we have anything in common with the insurgents in this time/day is crazy if the above scenario was different then there would be no way in hell that I would help any occupying force on my Home Land. I dont think this administration is the best but I would not help any occupiers relieve us from this president even if he does/did do things a dictator does and trust me if he declared tomorrow that he was now the dictator of the USA a whole lot of Americans will raise their weapons against the domestic occupiers without feeling like they are traitors. I love my country and will do anything to protect my family and our freedom from occupiers who wish to take that away from us. Make no mistake about it this country is what it now because of the freedoms we have and all the rights given to us by our CONSTITUTION/DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE and our BILL OF RIGHTS and so on and so forth!

Good 'cautious' reply!

But you agree, had you of been in the same circumstance as iraqi's, you'd be doing all you could to kill the occupying army?

Thanks yes I was being cautious and wanted to be very clear on what I was thinking but its hard to think about something then type it all down the way you thought it

I didnt say that read my reply again I would not kill the occupiers if they were here to help free me from our oppressor and his goons.

and I would not care what people in other countries thought of me if I did its not their freedom and they are not fighting for it. I know and understand what your getting at by saying we see them as murderers and such because of what they are doing yet if we were in their shoes we would do the same. However we can never be in their shoes because of who we are now we are free we are living comfortably for the most part and I see no reason to let these things go for some mistakes our government might make. I was answering the questions as if your scenario was actually in place now. They was the USA is now there is no way on this free land that any American would help an occupying party.

But thats just the concept, the occupier is telling you.
Did you ASK for them to invade and occupy?

Add another aspect to it,
Had 'abu grahib' type events occured, fallujha events occured, would you still be happy to stand by while the russians detained and tortured people?
Would you still accept them, when your broke, with no water/food/electricity, or had your family of been killed in a missile strike?

Yes he is telling me and no I did not ask for occupation but it would be welcomed as it would get rid of our Dictator whom we all feared. I mean cmon this guy murdered people in his own family whats to stop him from doing it to me his little subject? Thats enough to say F*** you to him when outside forces step in.

If those events did occur no I would not be happy to stand by while the russians detained my people. And if they killed my family then no I could not see myself helping them I can say that with 100% certainty. War is a terrible thing and I dont like terrorist no matter where they are from but I dont hate the Iraqi people or any one race or group of people(I do hate some individuals though )

Oh by the way are you american? what country are you from? I ask because if you are not from the USA then you are not aware of what people here are going through and though it does not make it right I think it changes your views on a lot of aspects of this war. If you are then you may have an idea but maybe are of middle eastern origin? I dont want to assume so Id rather you answer me before I go off on another rant.

Im neither American nor middle eastern, but i have been to America....
So, should your family be killed in a russian air strike, and youve now got no one, nothing.. accept a militia offering u money to kill the enemy.. what would you do ?

Well with my family gone and me bymyself why would I need money? OK honestly though I would have to be put in that position to decide its easy for me or anyone to say Yes I would take their money and take my revenge out by killing some russians who killed my family. or No I would not because I would be just as bad as they are and being a normal person and not in the military or trained to kill people I cannot say that I would. I however cannot begin to imagine whats going through those peoples mind when they're families are killed.

Well since you are not from America let me tell you right now that the way your are viewing this war is as an outsider on neither sides but you have a bias against the US because of what you see on TV or read in the papers. You see it as we invaded them they have the right to protect themselves and kill any american over there because they dont belong and are killing their families and innocent people I think thats kind of the mindset of the insurgents as well. And we as americans believe that this war no matter how it got started needs to be finished and when its all said and done democracy will come to Iraq and it will be free and the people there will have a say in their own countries doings. I for one would rather not be at war with them but I also support our troops and dont want to see them die they are following orders thats what they are trained to do!

You see we were attacked and way before 9/11 the terrorist groups wanted us dead I know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and the president has acknowledge it however leaving the war now would be disastrous as it would leave the country open to any one of the extreme radical groups to take over and run the country the same way saddam did and with even more hatred toward the US then before. I dont claim that we are 100% right but I will say that you could never understand why someone believes what they do until you are put in the same position. If Al-Queda attacked your country next would you still view us the same or agree that justice must be taken? What if your country after the attack decided to help the US and sent troops over to Iraq and Afganistan would you then not mind if your countrymen died over there because your country is now part of the evil occupiers?

Thankyou, I have to say for once someone actually can debate a topic without getting personal, thumbs up for that, to often people collapse NOW and carry on with the 'anti-US' or 'anti-Bush' bs, thankyou for being mature enough to debate a topic decently.

You see it as we invaded them they have the right to protect themselves and kill any American over there because they don’t belong and are killing their families and innocent people

That’s precisely it,
American soldiers, corporate contractors and government officials have no reason to be occupying Iraq.
Democracy will never come, so long as a foreign army is dictating Iraqi life.
It’s not ours to dictate, it wasn’t ours to invade. Iraq would of sorted itself out in a decade had we NOT of entered.
Every year, Iraq was becoming more and more open to the prospects of civilised order. Schools, hospitals, education, different social divides were being crossed and allowed.
Sure Saddam was a bad leader, who was ruthless, but in the final years 2001/2002 he wasn’t like he was in the early 90's and late 80's. Things were calming down, things were becoming positive.

We ' the west ' had a big opportunity after 911 occurred, middle eastern nations usually hostile towards us were mourning with us, were offering assistance, had we of capitalised on that, and opened dialogue with various nations we could of eliminated terrorism from the fanatical Muslim genre. We could have worked together and stamped out these madmen.

Instead we've done the exact opposite, and poured fuel on a spark, creating a fire that’s now totally out of control.

Should we stay in Iraq?
If you believe we can stamp out the anti-American mentality taking hold of that country excellent, but we need to establish a means of doing this.
A troop surge, stay the course rhetoric, is not creating a map for peace in Iraq.
Truth is I don’t think the Whitehouse has any clue about how to achieve a democratic Iraq, im not saying I do but at least I'll admit I haven’t the foggiest.
Where as the President and Co are continually telling you '' more patience is needed ''

Patience for what?
What can we achieve in 6 months, that we couldn’t achieve in 5 years? Especially when the violence has gotten 100x worse, and we're agitating more and more people, are they hoping if we throw enough money at the corporate dogs raping tax payer’s money it might somehow fix itself?

I'd be happy to stay, IF we actually had a plan of attack to reduce the deaths, minimise the damage done and push forward to happier days.

I support the troops, I will admire anyone who puts on that uniform stands in harms way if it means bettering civilisation, so long as that’s his reason. But the majority of people enlisting are not enlisting for the right reasons.
You cant win a war with a bunch of young bucks straight out of high school, who get more thrills out of shooting guns and blowing crap up, than they do helping an Iraqi' lady carry her shopping.

But in saying that, again, America is its own worst enemy.
You can’t expect your fighting men and women to respect the laws of the land, when they only have to look over their shoulder and see another solider, being paid 10x the amount, getting all the frills and not having to stay until they are told to go.
The corporate army America has induced into Baghdad is a major reason why Iraqi's spit at even the honest, respectable solider.

"You’re making thousands upon thousands of dollars, to shoot at us, when we did nothing to you."

I know that would make me pretty agro, toward anyone with a western accent.

However leaving the war now would be disastrous as it would leave the country open to any one of the extreme radical groups to take over and run the country the same way saddam did and with even more hatred toward the US then before.

Correct, But this is going to happen regardless of how long your there.
I mean, the % of ethnic groups majorly favours the Shi'a, thus Iran.
But America is so hell bent on refusing any sort of dialogue or negotiation with Iran, that anyone warm with Iran or of Iranian influence is dismissed, and rightly so.

So you've got a Sunni leader? Someone who is hell bent on revenge against the west, at the same time trying to ensure its shia's brethren do not use its majority numbers to overthrow the government, which it probably would.

How about the Kurds?... I cant imagine neither the shia or sunni allowing an outside faction to control Baghdad.

So you’re left with various options, all of which are not going to work if you want a peaceful Iraq.
Saddam was as good as Iraq was going to get, and considering he wasn’t attacking the US, invading neighbours, or creating WMD's... it was the best option to leave him in place.

You want to find a solution to the Iraq Mess, This is what you do.

1. Find a way to show the Iraqi's you don’t purposely want them to suffer.
- To do this, we must prove to them that this war, was nothing more than an opportunistic governments attempt at gaining a foothold in a basin of Cash, for their corporate masters.
We must disband the Bush administration; put them all on trial for crimes against humanity, crimes against the sovereign nation of Iraq and for crimes against America.
Like we did Saddam, we need to hand them over to the Iraqi's, and allow them to execute them, in the same inhumane way we executed their rightful leader.

2. Assist them in rebuilding their country
- We must devote as much of our economy as possible to re-building Iraq's infrastructure, economy and education/medical services. No corporations make any profits, all profits are destined for Iraqi' coffers.

3. We allow who ever holds the most clout within the ethnic community to take the reigns as Iraq's leader, Al Sadr, and Alsistani
- To do this we must accept Iran as a nation, and open talks with them, live on international TV.

4. We must pledge to the world we will never allow such a corruption within our own ranks to blind us into assisting in another massacre.

Until we take step number 1, the muslim community will never try to stamp out anti-American aspects of its community.
I’m happy to be the person wrapping the hangman’s noose around their necks, I believe it’s my mission in life.

If Alqaeda attacked my country, Id be angry.
Id approach the Taliban, like the US did and demand him, like the US did.
The Taliban in return told the United states, provide us with evidence Osama committed this act, and we will oblige.

Do you know what the US did ?

We bombed them.

I’m even happy to live with that, supposing Osama DID do 911, but there was no need to shift this to Iraq.

I will embrace any American as my brother so long as he is not prepared to kill foreigners, in their land just to secure oil ( as one person said earlier today )
I will always feel sorrow for the people of September 11, that was a heinous act.... but what I cant understand about the American public, is why after all the inaccuracies about 911 have come out, after all the lies of Iraq have come out... why aren’t people taking to the streets, boycotting EVERYTHING demanding this government resign?

Trying not to get sidetracked...

As now occupied American Citizens,

1. How are you going to respond to this Russian military occupation?
2. How are you going to react to the fellow Americans whom co-operate with the Russians occupying Los Angeles?
3. Will you accept help from other 'enemies' of Russia, if it means the Russian military occupation takes continued attacks?

1. Try to wipe them russians out. They invade my country... (well not in real life but scenario), the longer they occupy a part of it the more they'll wnt to keep it...and not let go, or potentially grabbing more.
2. Try to wipe them traitorous people out. Make other fellow americans too scared to try to help them pesky russians. Sacrafices may need to be made for the larger good.
3. Absolutely. If they give the bombs, the resistance could use them... ;-p

The idea that if US Troops leave Iraq the US will be open to attack is flawed, because as it stands, with the US occupying Iraq, it gives many angry Iraqis and others who feel their pain, a reason to attack the US.

If the US pulls out of Iraq, it will mean one reason why the Islamist militants or Iraqis would attack the US will be gone: The occupation of Iraq.

Just the rest of the US's foreign policy to sort out after that. That drastically needs to change....fast.

If Russia did what you say, it would then be WW3 as it would be viewed as an act of war DUH, its like saying Washington DC nuked by Russian terrorist cells and USA responds with missile and troop deployments, now what would Russia do, hmm probably launch its nukes and more.

[edit on 5-7-2007 by blobby]

Originally posted by blobby
If Russia did what you say, it would then be WW3 as it would be viewed as an act of war DUH

Yes the scenario is not realistic at all, but I get what he's saying. I have no doubt that there would be resistance to out the occupiers. No one wants a foriegn army controlling their city. Still, not all insurgents in Iraq have such noble ideas however. There's no explination for the way they bomb their own citizens and kill their own people. I seriously doubt that they believe that they are striking the Americans when the blow up a mosque or set off a car bomb in a crowded market place. If I had to pick between the occupiers who stood with guns on the street corner and fellow citizens who blew up the local Wal-Mart I'd choose the occupiers.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Its amazing the hypocritcal aspect of ATS.
So many people are so quick to label Iraqi's monsters, when they strike americans in the hummers....... yet when the shoes on the other foot, and they realise they'd do the EXACT same thing if they were them, they sew the lips shut.

disgusting!

Atleast admit you have more in common with Iraqi' insurgents than you pretend to...

What this tells me is that this thread is not about a hypothetical strike by Russia at all.

It took only an hour of no responses to your thread to bring out the true purpose of this thread: American involvement in Iraq, mixed with a defense of the insurgency's actions.

Next time, just come out and say what you mean.

Urrm, the purpose is to try and show 'americans' that if they were in the exact situation they have put the iraqi's in, they do the same.

I mean, be honest jso, if u were occupied, would you attack the occupying army?

Ahh dear chopstick your scenario is so flawed. Yes Russia can more or less nuke anything they want however you forget that the new missile interceptors are based in California not to mention we would see the nuke long before it had a chance to impact and we would hit back hard. The Russians know this so it would not likely happen. Just how does Russia plan to occupy a country of say 200 million people with guns? You under estimate American resolve. Any such attack on the U.S. unites us. We would watch the Russians come and if our military didn't obliterate them then we would. Americans would make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a playground. Now to get to your main point. You non Americans who do not understand why we attacked Iraq just probably will never get it. Its called Combat Tactics. We see a loony dictator in Iraq with chemical weapons and he is bound to try to hurt us when ever he can ( scenario ) like America at war with Iran or Syria. Its a chess game. Now we have Iran surrounded ( the largest supporter of terrorism ). So now that we have bases in Iraq and Afghanistan we can strike Iran or Syria and worst case Pakistan. We could have just left Iraq in shambles and have our troops sit out in the desert in battle groups waiting for the next war, Is that what the Iraqis want? I really doubt it. Iraq is the new battleground thanks to the Terrorist not us. The terrorist don't want the everyday Iraqi to have a good life and thats why they attack them more than us. They have no respect for other people and thats why we are going to kill them all one way or the other. On 9/11 we were attacked and we will respond how we want, When we want and there is not anything that is going to stand in our way. Did anyone blame us for attacking Japan after Peal Harbor, No I didn't think so. I cant stand the crying over Iraq!! Most Iraqis that halve half a brain will tell you that its the Iranians and AQ that is making their life hell and we will do something about it.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I mean, be honest jso, if u were occupied, would you attack the occupying army?

The problem is you don't seem to address the fact that the terrorists or insurgents are not only killing soldiers but civillians as well, and that is why people hate them. If they would limit themselves to attacking military targets (instead of women and children) I think the rest of the world might be more willing to listen to their concerns and actually feel for them.

But, if they (terrorists or insurgents) want to act like animals they should be treated like one. Unfourtunently the innocent and peaceful Iraqis get thrown in the same bag as the aholes.


[edit on 7-7-2007 by FreeSpeaker]