zeitgeist debunked and we still dont care, page 1
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Topic started on 3-7-2007 @ 03:02 PM by amenti
Zeitgeist the new “truth” movie being promoted by its makers on conspiracy message boards around the internet has been thoroughly debunked. It is disgusting to think the makers would try to sell it as a “truth movie” considering that it has dozens (over 50) easily provable factual errors. This is a slap in the face to the people who have died and will continue to do so in this patriot movement, we would expect nothing less than 100% accuracy of any movie in the 911 truth realm. We are talking about specific false claims that have been debunked for years, yet because this is the first time its been put into a form of a movie It has new life. This is not about a defense of a religion, it is about the integrity of information and our right not to be lied to by people claiming to be “truthers”
Lets take a look at the references the makers of this movie list as their sources for this information on their website:
www.zeitgeistmovie.com...

You will notice that they don’t site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist, you would think if it was true that the ancient texts showed such similarities, they would simply site these ancient texts. They don’t because they do not exist, Its quite simple, They instead offer books from authors such as Tim Leedom, Massey, Acharya, Doherty. This is laughable as a resource list if you have looked in to these claims. It’s the equivalent as me referencing Glenn Beck to prove there is no 911 conspiracy. I know its hard to believe that Tsarion or Alan Watt have been quoting known disinfo in their dissemination of this idea, but look for yourself, The numerous claims made by this movie concerning Jesus’s many similarities are either true or false. Before I move on here are the links to various debunkings of the “Christ myth”

Here is a great look at the ridiculous claims of most of the authors on that list (how they get away with this stuff is beyond rational thought)
www.tektonics.org...
This is another that site handles the major deities and does so with tremendous references.
www.thedevineevidence.com...
I like the next site because no stone is left unturned in his search for more and more "Christ myths deities" to debunk, he has about 80 claims looked in to here:
kingdavid8.com...
Because this movie spent so much time claiming the similarities of hours and Jesus here is a specific debunking to show how clearly uninformed in mythology and how easily duped the makers of this film are in making this claim.
www.tektonics.org...
Now for Leedoms "Virishna" I wish there was more information to go on, but there is no such deity, at least in our earth's currently verifiable history. he apparently didn't bother with fact checking. Here is one account of the hunt for Virishna from an earlier source:
kingdavid8.com...

This movie also tries to make the claim that the Catholic churches pagan ideals, symbolism ,and rituals are somehow proof that Christianity itself is a part of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Lets take December 25th mentioned at least a dozen times in the film. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in A.D. 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. Any person that doesn’t drool on themselves will tell you that nowhere in the bible is this date mentioned or inferred in ANY way. It is ludicrous to say that and pagan rituals involving this date can be linked to Christianity before the catholic church got a hold of the idea, that is, ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER.


reply posted on 3-7-2007 @ 03:03 PM by Amenti
continuing from.. "ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER." This illustrates that the Vatican has very little to do with true Christianity except for the obvious problem that they themselves always claim that they ARE Christianity.
Ill put it this way:

I know, the catholic church very well may be terribly evil, It stands to reason that that is where evil would want to set up shop. but lets please stop using its pagan based rituals to prove anything about Christianities founder. Yes, the "church" does seem to be used as a control mechanism…TO CONTROL YOUR PERCEPTION OF CHRISTIANITY. It seems so obvious. Jesus was actually one of the most anti-religious people that ever walked the earth He had compassion for every low down person he came into contact with, except for the "clergy" of his day. They were the only people he ever spoke a harsh word to..maby a few money changers too. The guy in the new testament would be freaking furious with an organization that claims the kind of things the Vatican claims.


Now, on to one of my favorite subjects, the Zodiac, or the Mazzaroth. This movie’s half truths and outright lies about the zodiac are sickening. The unfortunate thing is that you have to know a good deal about science, history, mythology, astronomy, and physics in order to start to even understand what is at play with this system. It is not as simple as many are led to think And because of a lack of diligent study and an overabundance of half assed research, people swallow what they are told without questioning or learning anything further.
I warn you, if you REALLY want to know what the zodiac is, if you want to know why the illuminated groups venerate the “as above so below” maxim, it wont be easy, and you will have to go to “school”, the long and the short of it is that the system, and its use and history, have been perverted to show and do things are believed only because of what you are NOT told. it is a matter of withholding information as much or more that mis-information. The truth is stranger than the half truth.
I will put some links here for those who wish to look into this, I encourage everyone who cares to do so:
www.ldolphin.org...
server.firefighters.org...
video.google.com...
video.google.com...

You can argue with me about a lot of things here (and Im sure you will) but that this movie has a great deal of factual errors is not up for debate, as I said most of these claims were debunked 100 years ago. I am very worried about the future of this truth movement of which I am proudly a part of, I know that a division on dogmatic grounds is coming, and that all the great work we have done exposing and fighting this New World Order will be undone, by design. Be careful the ones proving the most stuff are often the ones to watch out for, they do this because they know that certain truths are coming out they know that they cant stop the awakening that’s coming. so they try to temper it by supplying us with the best real information through their agents and having them only lie about key elements, It is very insidious and very evil. We must be alert and challenge EVERYTHING even if you wanted to hear everything this movie had to say it does not make it true.

One more thing, As this movie suggest, I too believe we are at the end of an age. An astronomical age and a spiritual age, the precession of the equinoxes is a real thing,
They have tried to tell you that this impending change is a non-christian Idea, This IS the Idea! It is clearly described in the bible we will indeed change, as will this world, and why it must do so. but they are keeping you from seeing the origin of the warning! The bible has been 100% accurate in its writing history in advance, this is how has validated itself. Challenge this claim It is our duty.


reply posted on 3-7-2007 @ 06:50 PM by KINGOFPAIN
Originally posted by Amenti
I will count you as one who doesn't care about the factual errors in this movie.



count me as well,funny how all of the links you give are from sites that agree with the same thinking as you..(i assume x-tain). like when i read this llittle snippet from one of the site's you linked..


Aren’t there some striking parallels between the Jesus and Zoroaster stories?
Hardly. Zoroaster was a Persian prophet, though some (perhaps erroneously) refer to him as a god. While some scholars claim he was first worshipped around 1700 B.C., the earliest existing references to Zoroaster come from around 600 B.C. However, almost everything we know about Zoroaster come from texts written over 300 years after Jesus walked the Earth, and the earliest existing copies of these texts are from the 13th century. This creates a serious problem for those claiming Christianity "borrowed" from Zoroastrism, since the evidence suggests that it was the other way around, that the Zoroaster character was changed to become more like Jesus in post-Christian times.
1. Zoroaster was born of a virgin and "immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason."

Zoroaster's mom was married when she gave birth to him, and there's nothing suggesting she was celibate while married. The "ray of divine reason" was apparently a purely spiritual thing, and Zoroaster's body actually was created the usual way


i thought marry was married also?...even though some claim she was not,what about the time she spent with her friend (3 months away from Joseph)? she could have been knocked up then.. so as in the above ... "there's nothing suggesting she was celibate while with joseph"

can you see how trying to debunk truth is pointless.

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[edit on 8/7/07 by masqua]


reply posted on 4-7-2007 @ 12:33 AM by KINGOFPAIN
miss understood?.. i dont think so.. for one the word "virgin" has been debated for years and still no one really agrees on what the true translation of the word is.. so her being a virgin or not really dont matter to me cause she never exsisted to begin with.


The Virgin is the first aspect of the Goddess that dates back to Grecian times. "Holy Virgin" was a title for temple prostitutes, a duty of the priestesses of Ishtar, Asherah, or Aphrodite. The title itself did not mean virginity, but it simply meant "unmarried." The functions of these "holy virgins" was to give forth the Mother's grace and love by sexual worship; to heal; to prophecy; to perform sacred dances; to wail for the dead; and to become Brides of God.The Semites, and parthenioi by the Greeks called children born of such virgins bathur. Both terms mean virgin-born. According to the Protoevangelium, the Virgin Mary was a kadesha and perhaps was married to a member of the priesthood known as the "fathers of the gods."

There is an analogy between Mary's impregnation and that of Persephone's. The latter, in her virgin guise, sat in a holy cave and began weaving the great tapestry of the universe, when Zeus, appearing as a phallic serpent, impregnated her with the savior Dionysus. Mary sat in a temple and began to spin a blood-red thread, representing Life in the tapestry of fate. The angel Gabriel came to Mary, telling her that the spirit of the Lord would over shadow her and she would be with child. (Luke 1:28-31) This child was Jesus Christ, who many call savior.

In the Hebrew Gospels the name Mary is designated by almah which means "young woman." The reason that Mary is held to have remained a virgin by Catholics and some Christians is because Matthew in his gospel used the Greek word parthenos, meaning "virgin," instead of almah when referring to the virgin birth of Jesus. Also almah was derived from Persian Al-Mah, the unmated Moon goddess. Another cognate of this term was the Latin alma, "living soul of the world," which is essentially identical to the Greek psyche, and the Sanskrit shakti. So the ancient Holy Virgins, or temple-harlots, were "soul-teachers" or "soul- mothers." Thus comes the term alma mater. A.G.H.

Sources:
Walker, Barbara G., The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, New York, HarperCollins, 1983, pp. 1048-1051

The author of Matthew is saying that Mary's "virgin" birth of Jesus would fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14.
The actual Hebrew verse which the author of Matthew attempts to manufacture a prophecy fulfillment out of doesn't say a virgin would give birth but that a young woman would conceive. As an aside, the KJV Bible does as most Christian Bibles do, which is to translate the Hebrew word "almah" to mean virgin instead of young woman. The RSV (Revised Standard Version) Bible is one of the few Christian Bibles that maintains the term young woman instead of replacing it with the word "virgin". The basic issue is that Isa 7:14 doesn't have anything to do with Jesus in the first place.


you cant use the bible to prove the bible....what's the matter with not thinking the way your gawd thinks?.... it's not going to effect you... right? so whats the big deal?

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[edit on 8/7/07 by masqua]


reply posted on 4-7-2007 @ 09:58 AM by dr_strangecraft
Originally posted by amenti

This movie also tries to make the claim that the Catholic churches pagan ideals, symbolism ,and rituals are somehow proof that Christianity itself is a part of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Lets take December 25th mentioned at least a dozen times in the film. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in A.D. 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. Any person that doesn’t drool on themselves will tell you that nowhere in the bible is this date mentioned or inferred in ANY way. It is ludicrous to say that and pagan rituals involving this date can be linked to Christianity before the catholic church got a hold of the idea, that is, ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER.


Personally, I've come to the conclusion that December 25th was an authentic Christian celebration.

If the star of bethlehem was actually the conjunction of Jupiter and Venus with the star Regulus ("king star") in Leo (Judah) in 2 BC, then Christmas may be a reference to Jupiter's retrograde motion after the event into Virgo (the virgin).

The reason for thinking this is that Jupiter's retrograde motion in Virgo ended on . . . December 25th, 1 AD.

In the words of matthew, "the star came to rest over the place where the star was." This maky refer to the planet Jupiter's apparent "stopping" in Virgo. The constellations may have been a map of Israel, with Virgo corresponding to Bethlehem.

I explored it in detail, with footnotes, in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



all the best.


reply posted on 8-7-2007 @ 08:26 PM by jimbo999
Originally posted by amenti
the new “truth” movie being promoted by its makers on conspiracy message boards around the internet has been thoroughly debunked. It is disgusting to think the makers would try to sell it as a “truth movie” considering that it has dozens (over 50) easily provable factual errors. This is a slap in the face to the people who have died and will continue to do so in this patriot movement, we would expect nothing less than 100% accuracy of any movie in the 911 truth realm. We are talking about specific false claims that have been debunked for years, yet because this is the first time its been put into a form of a movie It has new life. This is not about a defense of a religion, it is about the integrity of information and our right not to be lied to by people claiming to be “truthers”
Lets take a look at the references the makers of this movie list as their sources for this information on their website:
www.zeitgeistmovie.com...

You will notice that they don’t site one single original source for the Jesus similarities they claim exist, you would think if it was true that the ancient texts showed such similarities, they would simply site these ancient texts. They don’t because they do not exist, Its quite simple, They instead offer books from authors such as Tim Leedom, Massey, Acharya, Doherty. This is laughable as a resource list if you have looked in to these claims. It’s the equivalent as me referencing Glenn Beck to prove there is no 911 conspiracy. I know its hard to believe that Tsarion or Alan Watt have been quoting known disinfo in their dissemination of this idea, but look for yourself, The numerous claims made by this movie concerning Jesus’s many similarities are either true or false. Before I move on here are the links to various debunkings of the “Christ myth”

Here is a great look at the ridiculous claims of most of the authors on that list (how they get away with this stuff is beyond rational thought)
www.tektonics.org...
This is another that site handles the major deities and does so with tremendous references.
www.thedevineevidence.com...
I like the next site because no stone is left unturned in his search for more and more "Christ myths deities" to debunk, he has about 80 claims looked in to here:
kingdavid8.com...
Because this movie spent so much time claiming the similarities of hours and Jesus here is a specific debunking to show how clearly uninformed in mythology and how easily duped the makers of this film are in making this claim.
www.tektonics.org...
Now for Leedoms "Virishna" I wish there was more information to go on, but there is no such deity, at least in our earth's currently verifiable history. he apparently didn't bother with fact checking. Here is one account of the hunt for Virishna from an earlier source:
kingdavid8.com...

This movie also tries to make the claim that the Catholic churches pagan ideals, symbolism ,and rituals are somehow proof that Christianity itself is a part of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Lets take December 25th mentioned at least a dozen times in the film. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in A.D. 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. Any person that doesn’t drool on themselves will tell you that nowhere in the bible is this date mentioned or inferred in ANY way. It is ludicrous to say that and pagan rituals involving this date can be linked to Christianity before the catholic church got a hold of the idea, that is, ALMOST 500 YEARS LATER.


Well - I thought your first link of so-called 'trmendous references' (Tektonics) and I quote from the first article on the first page you linked to:

'(The author is a historian based at one the world's leading universities. He specialises in and is currently developing a publication record on ancient and modern myth.)'

Hmmm...a mysterious 'historian' with no name, who teaches at an unamed university. Hardly very credible really...it's simply a christian web site set up to de-bunk the above mentioned move/book 'Zeitgeist'. Really guys, this is a non-starter for a thread.....next please..

J.
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