sorry xphiles but i really have to tell you that you probably didn't understand what the actual message of dr michio kaku was. let me try to explain: when he refered to the so-called 'terrorists' he (imo) didn't only mean those guys in the middle east (al-qaida & co). i think he meant everyone who is not supportive to a world that lives together as one in peace and depends as a single operating body on science and technology for future survival (=> type1 transformation). now what i understand as a global united world that is coordinated by a single government is what you call the new world order (nwo). ofc it's your right to do that but i honestly want to tell you that you cannot prevent this nwo (if you want to call it like that...) in any way! sooner or later countries will totally disappear (EU / NAU are only the beginning...) and we will start to think as one world that has to deal with the issue of how we want to live in future. do we really want to continue with our endless wars and hatred for each other or do we want to live in peace respect each other and develop ourselves as a civilization (technologically / spiritually)?! i think the answer to that question is clear (at least to me) and so i welcome the nwo with open arms because it's actually not that tyranny controlled world you possibly think it is... if we want to make the transformation to a type 1 civilization and become 'important' in the universe then we have to overcome every border and limit that exists for us nowadays. a lot of this sounds like science-fiction still but i tell you that the prediction of dr kaku is quite reserved. i think that we'll see the changes much earlier and ofc they will occur in our lifetime! nonetheless the big question is if people will accept this world government or not because if we would have to fight wars over it once again then we probably wouldn't make the final transformation and wipe ourselves out indeed. therefore we should fight that this one world comes into power so that we can finally start to live in the future we always dreamed of (although it sounds still like science-fiction for most of the people ) because in my opinion it's definitley worth it! - at all costs...

[edit on 28/6/07 by EBE154]

[edit on 28/6/07 by EBE154]

Hello there,

Being able to venture outside the Universe is a nice idea but eventually everyone wants to have a safe, stable, and environmentally friendly planet to live on.

This statement is puzzling to me. IMO, none of us are qualified to make such a statement because we have not lived on spaceships, on different planets, in other universes, etc.

The point is that we are a long ways off from these advanced civilizations that Kaku speaks of. By the time we take our seat at the Type 3 table I can assure you that our mindset as individuals and as a collective will have changed.

Our mindset of what is safe. What is stable. What is friendly. What makes us feel comfortable etc. That will all be different. Just like my silly plane analogy I used. Planes might be a "nice idea" for people who existed in 1800. But for people in 2007 planes aren't just a "nice idea." They are essential to our way of life.

Yeah...that must be it.

I apologize for jumping to conclusions. If you are referring to HCR (humancentric research) then I have little comment other than saying it looks like a great idea.

Prayer alone has never been enough to actually create something and science is inherently limited because no instrument can ever be constructed that can actually create matter. A definite problem in physics. How do you create something that cannot be created with physically based technology? Try it sometime.

There are many problems in physics. Actually Kaku reminded us that matter seems to be the minority in the universe. Why worry so much about the minority? What Kaku tells us is that we haven't come close to reaching our potential (in theory). Some people think that we have most of the physical laws etc figured out and that we are nearing the limit of the capability of science. Here we have one of the world's most respected and smartest minds telling us that's not the case.

Science has given us so many things we take for granted today. Things that our grandparents couldn't have imagined in their younger days. I'm with Kaku on this one. We will continue to figure out the environement around us and make progress. Conservatives like those who hold power in the middle east will fight against it and they will lose.

It doesn't matter what any of our feelings are on this issue. What matters is where the evidence points. Could Michio be wrong? Of course he's only human like the rest of us. But he does have alot of evidence lending support to our coming transition to a Type 1.

What you state and what everyone else states here is a matter of opinion. To say that one is "making a logical and scientific observation" is in itself just an opinion.

Fair enough. But Kaku is obviously a very intelligent and respected member of our species. Kaku is not only naturally gifted but he has put in a great deal of work and effort. His opinions mean more to me than your average joe at the grocery store.

Although his Type 3 visions are way out there, certainly his visions of transitioning to Type 1 are supported by evidence all around us. He also has history on his side. Over time humans have not stood still with respect to change, evolution, development.

Nothing "just happened." It is the struggle of the few which improves the lives of the many. That has always been the case.

Sure I agree for the most part. My writing ability is less than desired. What I meant was that these folks didn't shoot for a Boeing Dreamliner, but that's what they got. One advancement led to the next. Likewise, I don't think many individuals, businesses, organizations, or govt entities are aiming for a Type 1 civilization. But that is what we are moving towards.

Well, I don't know about you, but for me that will likely occur in less than ten years. At least in regard to the progressive changes that I and others are a part of.

Agent Smith: It is inevitable.

Originally posted by EBE154
sorry xphiles but i really have to tell you that you probably didn't understand what the actual message of dr michio kaku was. let me try to explain: when he refered to the so-called 'terrorists' he (imo) didn't only mean those guys in the middle east (al-qaida & co). i think he meant everyone who is not supportive to a world that lives together as one in peace and depends as a single operating body on science and technology for future survival

I understand his message, If you think we are going to save Earth by a Kaku Type 1 transition you would be mistaken, if not already to late. A unrestricted power in control of the World will never work, it's already started on the wrong foot. You can not base your faith in technology alone when it has been shown to destroy and murder innocent people. What maybe peace to you, maybe hell to someone else.

Originally posted by XPhiles
Yes that what would call it, NWO Pseudo Science.

Well, I would bet we never make it to Type 1, I quote Einstein, "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” You see Einstein was for a NWO concept as well, he wanted the world to do away with nuclear weapons and prepare our future for a NWO. And here we have Kaku resuming that same ideal again, but flat out says "these people who don't want this transition are the terrorist." What he's really saying is, anyone who is not for or part of the NWO is a terrorist.

9/11 has set the transition stage, however the general public has caught on. A Type 1 will never happen in a NWO way, unless your into population reduction. Sure change is a part of life, but you can not control how people feel about it. You can't brainwash us all... I guess those who are not sheep are terrorist?

Einstein was stating that unless Nuclear (or other WMD) capable nations understand the concept of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) then any war fought between them would be an Armageddon. As we now know, the cold war was not won with weapons, but though Ideology and Economics. This in effect gave birth to the Type One culture, that of the western nations. The British Empire had already set in motion the spread of the English language, and the USA finally secured English as the global language though Global Media (films, music and other popular culture). The last few remaining milestones for the Type One civilisation are political and military, and with the ever increasing EU and the possible onset of the North American Union (NAU) I think Type One is getting closer every day.

I also believe that a Type One global society might not need to include every nation. In effect what we might end up with is a Westernised cluster, who would be more than capable of the scientific achievements that would be expected of Type One. I think we are around 50 - 80 years off this; with a truly all-nation civilisation being a good 100 years or so after. Just my belief though.

As for 9/11 being a transition stage? Transition to what? Whatever your beliefs on who caused 9/11 I don't see how your 'NWO' could use the September 11th attacks as a way to transcend us into a global society. If anything September 11th fractured the global culture and increased fundamentalism in all corners (hence why Al-Qaeda would of benefited most from it). Hypothetically, if I was working for a government think tank I would of suggested to your suppose 'NWO' the old cold war tactics of promoting Ideology through propaganda and economy. It's worked very well in China, just review the last 20 years.

Originally posted by XPhiles
You can not base your faith in technology alone when it has been shown to destroy and murder innocent people.

now that is what i call conservative thinking...
i would suggest a simple comparison right now:
1.) how many people have lost their lives due to technology? (a lot yes...)
10%
2.) how many people still have their lives (and now even better lives) due to
technology? (probably all those who haven't been killed so far...)
90%

in order to make it even more clear to you... do not associate things such as weaponry etc. to the 'true' benefit of technology because it is simply not what was intended to be the final 'creation' of this advanced science. if you fear technological improvement because it appears as a serious threat to you then i would strongly recommend you to watch movies about artificial intelligence and the consequences it has for mankind when it doesn't behave the way as we expected it to! that would actually be the only case where i could understand your 'fear'... nonetheless i simply disagree with your conservative view of technology and going into detail would really be too extreme because there are so many new technologies and improvements that have made our lives so much easier. and even weapons (yes) have specifically helped to solve certain situations in our world. (just think of the a-bomb and its effect on japan at the end of ww2 - but don't get me wrong this time: i thought it was a terrible idea to drop them and i personally wouldn't have done it but probably it was the only possibility to end war without having more and more casualties on the U.S. side) - cheers

[edit on 28/6/07 by EBE154]

[edit on 28/6/07 by EBE154]

Well my Irobot may be dumber than a cockroach, but is sure cleans the floors better than i can...

What an amazing fella. I am not like many of ye guys, I understand in my own way and he explains things so well. I think i'm clever, (but not sure) I find it hard to understand sometimes but he made it very clear. Once again I'm new to hthis place, ABT, but been watchinh for a while it seems many people like me want answers too. Does anyone have a theory about peopel that can dream something and tell someone an hour aftre waking up, tell them, then later that day it happens?

Ive no real proof so dont take it as a reality, all I know is that its real and I,m lucky or maybe unluckyv cos it causes me upset too.

Anyway. Hope ye guys are ok with me joining your forum.

Pete

do you think a world government is a good thing

Originally posted by pierreletrek
do you think a world government is a good thing

yes i personally do because only with such a world government we can evolve
to the next stage of civilization (type 1) as described by mr kaku himself. sooner or later we will all be united under one administration. i have no doubt about that! and to be honest: in my opinion that's a real good thing because then we would finally enter the interplanetary age! so if someone would ask you: where are you from? your answer could simply be: earth... and not america europe or whatever. wouldn't that be cool?

[edit on 28/6/07 by EBE154]

He's awesome! i'm about half way right now

Originally posted by Scramjet76
IMO, none of us are qualified to make such a statement because we have not lived on spaceships, on different planets, in other universes, etc.

It is an assumption based on logic. We all want a home eventually. It is like the nomadic tribesman on this planet in the days when civilization was just starting (again). As society became more stable and sophisticated, it was generally preferred to no longer roam about but to more or less stay in one place and strive to prosper financially (if possible).

Originally posted by Scramjet76
The point is that we are a long ways off from these advanced civilizations that Kaku speaks of. By the time we take our seat at the Type 3 table I can assure you that our mindset as individuals and as a collective will have changed.

I don't necessarily agree with his conception of how things will unfold over the long haul. Some of it but not all of it.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Our mindset of what is safe. What is stable. What is friendly. What makes us feel comfortable etc. That will all be different. Just like my silly plane analogy I used. Planes might be a "nice idea" for people who existed in 1800. But for people in 2007 planes aren't just a "nice idea." They are essential to our way of life.

Technological advancement does tend to become technological necessity.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
I apologize for jumping to conclusions. If you are referring to HCR (humancentric research) then I have little comment other than saying it looks like a great idea.

OK.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
There are many problems in physics. Actually Kaku reminded us that matter seems to be the minority in the universe. Why worry so much about the minority? What Kaku tells us is that we haven't come close to reaching our potential (in theory). Some people think that we have most of the physical laws etc figured out and that we are nearing the limit of the capability of science. Here we have one of the world's most respected and smartest minds telling us that's not the case.

I can't think of anything to disagree with in the above paragraph.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Science has given us so many things we take for granted today. Things that our grandparents couldn't have imagined in their younger days. I'm with Kaku on this one. We will continue to figure out the environement around us and make progress. Conservatives like those who hold power in the middle east will fight against it and they will lose.

Many political changes are and will occur as events unfold.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
It doesn't matter what any of our feelings are on this issue. What matters is where the evidence points. Could Michio be wrong? Of course he's only human like the rest of us. But he does have alot of evidence lending support to our coming transition to a Type 1.

When do you see that happening?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
What you state and what everyone else states here is a matter of opinion. To say that one is "making a logical and scientific observation" is in itself just an opinion.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Fair enough. But Kaku is obviously a very intelligent and respected member of our species. Kaku is not only naturally gifted but he has put in a great deal of work and effort. His opinions mean more to me than your average joe at the grocery store.

I'll concede that you and him are not the average Joe at the grocery store if you concede that I am not as well.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Although his Type 3 visions are way out there, certainly his visions of transitioning to Type 1 are supported by evidence all around us. He also has history on his side. Over time humans have not stood still with respect to change, evolution, development.

Type 1 does seem to be more imminent than the far future visions he described.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Nothing "just happened." It is the struggle of the few which improves the lives of the many. That has always been the case.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
Sure I agree for the most part. My writing ability is less than desired. What I meant was that these folks didn't shoot for a Boeing Dreamliner, but that's what they got. One advancement led to the next. Likewise, I don't think many individuals, businesses, organizations, or govt entities are aiming for a Type 1 civilization. But that is what we are moving towards.

The inherent challenge with a streamlined, highly interactive, Type 1 society is that there will also be a movement in certain circles to orchestrate a Totalitarian government or NWO to govern everything in favor of an elite class of citizens that are elite only because they are the ones in power. That fundamental problem is something that he ignored or overlooked in his analysis.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Well, I don't know about you, but for me that will likely occur in less than ten years. At least in regard to the progressive changes that I and others are a part of.

Originally posted by Scramjet76

Agent Smith: It is inevitable.

Interesting analogy.

Will we want to be a part of the Agent Smith entity (which is also close to the idea of the Borg) or be our own individualistic Neo?

Things that make you go HMMM.

I think I will go with the latter goal.

Originally posted by EBE154
would suggest a simple comparison right now:
1.) how many people have lost their lives due to technology? (a lot yes...)
10%
2.) how many people still have their lives (and now even better lives) due to
technology? (probably all those who haven't been killed so far...)
90%

in order to make it even more clear to you... do not associate things such as weaponry etc. to the 'true' benefit of technology because it is simply not what was intended to be the final 'creation' of this advanced science.

It's more than just associating with weapons, science has many intentions. You could come up with any percentage you want, but the fact is your mind is conditioned to depend on superior technology along with economic beliefs and socialization. This weakens the mind and causes high anxiety....what are you going to do when the power grid goes down lol? Your going to freak out.

However I can associate with weaponry, as anything can be used as a weapon, such as global politics: While spreading the English language in Iraq, (the planetary language) the body count continues to grow, and you can thank 9/11 for it. Another example: implantable RFID chips could be used for medical purposes, then again it can be used to hunt you down or control you. (something the NWO probably wants) ext.....

Anything can be used as a weapon such as biotech or genetic manipulation. Yet,unfortunately we will butcher the earth trying to reach Type I civilization and unlike any other past extinction we will probably cause the next mass extinction. The more we are dominant, the greater the effects to the system, surely you can see this coming. The only way for us to truly reach Type I, 2 or 3 is probably by alien intervention, we can't depend on alien probes waiting for us to become Type 1.

If we're lucky enough the aliens will come to us, preserve us from extinction.

Another Woody Allen quote:
"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown."

Hello PR-

It is an assumption based on logic. We all want a home eventually. It is like the nomadic tribesman on this planet in the days when civilization was just starting (again). As society became more stable and sophisticated, it was generally preferred to no longer roam about but to more or less stay in one place and strive to prosper financially (if possible).

I completely disagree. I think you feel that we have reached the pinnacle of our civilization in many ways?

The way I see it is we are just beginning a long journey. Yes nomadic people wandered because of food. As agriculture and trading became more prominent there was no reason to move around so much. "We all want a home eventually" just doesn't make any sense to me. You can call anything home. Anything that you feel uncomfortable with at first you will adapt and get used to it. Anything can be home.

I don't necessarily agree with his conception of how things will unfold over the long haul. Some of it but not all of it.

Well at this stage I would say there is alot of evidence for his Type 1 theory. That said, obviously the Type 3 level spacetime tearing God scenario is very sci-fi-ish.

OK.

I'm sorry PR. Being that I'm at work, I only have time to surf a few threads on ATS, respond to your comments, etc. I missed your signature.

When do you see that happening?

Well I read a book by the name of Hyperspace by Michio Kaku several years ago. It was then that I first heard the terms Type 1, 2, 3 civilizations. I had already been thinking (before reading the book) that humans would appear to be heading towards a one world gov't. It would appear (to me) that perhaps the point of the United States of America will go down in history as being the main facilitator to a Type 1 Civilization.

There really is no resisting the change. We can drag our feet like many people choose to do but that is exactly what they're doing... dragging feet. With the increase in technology our cultures are going to cross if we like it or not and some cultures are going to go away. Like Michio says, English appears to be emerging as the dominant language. Nations are already merging to form larger entities (i.e. EU).

The future could hold a merger of the USA and EU to combat a merger of China and Russia. That isn't to say that Americans want to merge with Europeans! But if i.e. China merges with Russia, they might not have a choice. IMO it will ultimately come down to the ideology of communism vs capitalism. Look at the major powers on the planet. You see the liberal left in the USA not going away. They continue to try and push socialistic ideas into our system. Ultimately a China-Russia merger might have to incorporate more socialism/capitalism into their ideology... as we might have to incorporate more socialism/communism into ours. It might be necessary to avoid killing eachother over plots of land, resources, beliefs etc.

I would say that Kaku's assessment of 100 years is probably fairly accurate. Although it might take a little longer to completely be out of the "danger zone." As Kaku pointed out, this is probably the most difficult transition for an evolving species.

I'll concede that you and him are not the average Joe at the grocery store if you concede that I am not as well.

Ok deal. Although while not an average Joe, I'm certainly nowhere near Professor Kaku. I'm a curious laymen at best.
I will say that I'm greatful tfor people like Kaku who step forward and bring some common sense and scientific expertise to the discussion. He also brings much hope in his views while cautioning of the impending dangers.

I think his views on how ET contact could happen seem much more realistic than the "White House landing" everybody dreams of.

Type 1 does seem to be more imminent than the far future visions he described.

Yes well as humans I think we can imagine Type 1, because we see the beginnings. Type 3 is so far down the road that not even a theoretical phycisist is really qualified to make educated guesses. Although his classification of energy consumption makes some sense.

The inherent challenge with a streamlined, highly interactive, Type 1 society is that there will also be a movement in certain circles to orchestrate a Totalitarian government or NWO to govern everything in favor of an elite class of citizens that are elite only because they are the ones in power. That fundamental problem is something that he ignored or overlooked in his analysis.

Many people (including many on ATS) are concerned with the whole NWO/Totalitarian government. I wouldn't worry so much about that. That threat already exists today plus the threat of culture/ideological clashes between governements. In this case I feel 1 is better than 2.

Things that make you go HMMM. I think I will go with the latter goal.

Amen. I'm with you on that. Although, you never know what the future holds. There doesn't seem to be any stopping the transition to Type 1. And I suppose we will all keep reproducing until we look alike anyways...

Let's hope Neo comes thru.

It is advanced applications of The Light that will supercede the theoretical Type III civilization with what can be termed a Type IV civilization, i.e., one that is capable of utiliziing energies that are more powerful than the sum total of all the billions of galaxies in the entire Universe.

Not to get too far off topic for this thread... suffice to say that I'm spiritual and interested in religious philosophies.

Just wanted to point out that Michio isn't just a believer in the universe... he believes in the multiverse. Since he went wild with his civilization theories I'd point out that if we could figure out a way to enter our "parent universe" as he calls it.... that universe's scales might be in no way comparable to ours. Using the energy of the parent universe might be the Type 4?

Mathematically you can assign any number to anything while attempting to gauge the degree of size or power of a particular object or energy. And still any number you assign or add to it will fall far short of infinity!
So while the sum power of our universe might equal one. The sum power of our parent universe might equal one hundred billion trillion decillion. Still nothing in the face of infinity.

I think I'm becoming mesmorized with potential power sources! I better stop now and come back to reality.

I love Michio. To me he is the new figure head of Science taking the seat from the late Carl Sagan and is keeping it warm for the next brilliant man who could represent the ever expanding world of science.

People would enjoy reading his book "Visions" about the next 50 years of technology and the coming revolutions in tech that will grossly change all of our lives for ever.

I've been a big Kaku fan since highschool when I read Hyperspace. I even emailed him a question once and he answered it and was really friendly. He's a really good guy.

I would say that the problem with the idea of a one world governement in modern times is that the people who would be in the front of the line to rule it are sociopaths. That's the universal problem with any organized relgion, form of government or anything really is that it's only as good as the people who are involved.

I don't believe that things will always be this way, though. I'm an optimist and I think that we will evolve to the point where we won't have corruption to the degree that we have it now. I don't know if that will happen in only a hundred years though. I know technologically we are progressing by leaps and bounds but ethically we are still in the dark ages. IMO