Originally posted by theindependentjournal
They wanted Jesus to be born on Dec 25th so that they coul link him to Mithra, Horus, Osiris, Zeus, Odin and many other SON gods.

I don't think bible calculated birth date was being bought into question, simply because when it comes to the Myth of Jesus it is irrelevant. The fact is that Christians celebrate the Birth of Jesus on the 25th of December - Christmas day. That is the base of the Myth. Do you think that Horus was a real guy with a bird head that was born of the 25th December? No, because he was a representation of the Sun and its cycle, and the same can be said of Jesus.

You can say that all you want, it doesn't make it true or factual. There is ample evidence from secular sources that declare Jesus,(yahshua) lived and hung on that cross. You don't have to believe it and you can scream as loud as you want about it too, but again it is your opinion and it may make you look foolish to archeoligists and those in the know so be warned of that fact.

And it does not change the fact that the movie is full of lies and crapola. It only enforces it considering that all learned peoples know how Constantine made Dec 25th Jesus's birthday. The best evidence of that of course being Constantines OWN WRITING...

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
it is your opinion and it may make you look foolish to archeoligists and those in the know so be warned of that fact.

I have friends who are studying both Ancient History and Archaeology Masters and they have assured me that there is no CONCLUSIVE evidence that Christ did exist. There are claims, texts and scriptures but no physical evidence. I'm currently waiting for a reply from one of them about the factual content of Zeitgeist Part 1, hopefully if he's not too busy I can post what he tells me in the following week or so.

I do know though that Christians practice Christ's birthday on the 25th of December, and just like Christ's divinity was decided by men, so was this date. I don't understand why you dispute this. I'm not saying he WAS born on the 25th, I'm saying that it is commonly assumed by the Christian Church.

The modern construct of Christ is as make-believe as Horus. Even if there was a Jewish man called Jesus who lead a cult and was crucified, that doesn't prove that your Christ 'Son of God' was real.

And I am telling you as one of those Christians that it isnt his birthday nor is it celbrated as such by REAL christians.. Would you like the name and phone number of my pastor to prove it??

Yes the Ctaholic church does, sincce it is a Roman thing but then again Catholics think Diddling Children is ok asrecent news has shown, so lets not include them shall we...

And even if everyone on the planet celbrated dec 25th as his birthday it still wouldn't make it so, don't you understand that?

One more thing if your friends say there is no secular evidence he lived let me show you with ACTUAL DOCUMENTS that will show they don't know what they are taking about.

There is a lot of evidence inside the religions to support Yashua living, but if you need a poloraoid of him on the cross and multiple history books won't convince you then we have no worries, because you to be intilectually honest couldn't accept no historical writings as evidence. That is what you said right? You want physical proof and history writings don't count? Then NO historical Writings can count...

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
And I am telling you as one of those Christians that it isnt his birthday nor is it celbrated as such by REAL christians.. Would you like the name and phone number of my pastor to prove it??

Whatever your Church practices as the Birth date of Christ does not reflect the stance of the Catholic Church, the oldest surviving and most powerful Church of Christianity. Both Catholics and Protestants officially celebrate Christ's Birthday on the 25th of December, regardless of what you and you suppose 'real' Christians say on the matter.

And even if everyone on the planet celbrated dec 25th as his birthday it still wouldn't make it so, don't you understand that?

Christianity is not about the truth of the possible life of Jesus, its about the Worship of the Demigod Christ.

One more thing if your friends say there is no secular evidence he lived let me show you with ACTUAL DOCUMENTS that will show they don't know what they are taking about.

Secular evidence?...As in non-religious evidence? - Do you mean actual conclusive objective data not fabricated by the Catholic Church to re-enforce the Christ Myth? Well, there is none. Please present your documents. No doubt written by a Catholic scholar or priest in 900AD...

You want physical proof and history writings don't count? Then NO historical Writings can count...

How about a gospel of Christ himself? Or perhaps evidence of him in Roman Census? Or perhaps Items such as a piece of the Cross? Or the spear? Or even an item of clothing? Such artefacts should be sacred to Christians so why didn't any of them keep them at the time? Why? Because they probably didn't exist.

As I've already said, a man called Jesus may of lived around then, but that doesn't mean the Demigod Christ did.

theindependentjournal... I'm sorry if I disagree. This is from memory but... The angel came to Mary in the 6th month (June) to say she would be pregnant. She left right away to visit Elizabeth and stayed 3 mos (Sept). She was pregnant when Elizabeth saw her. So she became pregnant in June meaning she would have delivered in March-April. September is impossible (unless we're just going to throw out human physiology here in which case anything is possible for the birth of Jesus OR John).

See my bible says he was born in Late September, probably the 29th.

which bible do you use?

The King James Bible never gives any reference to a date, except that the north star was shining the east. hmmmm...

Point Set and Match...

HA HA your funny see below.

JTMA508
Circumstances and descriptions in the Bible suggest he was born in the Spring (likely April). But no date is ever given.

Independent journal said:
See my bible says he was born in Late September

Amazing that one of my fellow Christians is ADAMANT that Christ was born in
September, yet in the same forum another Christian throws out a much more sedate argument (which for future reference Journal "you get more ants with honey than you do vinegar") with a totally different MONTH...

I agree that no one knows for sure when Christ was born, as when I racked my brain about it (too late to edit... Darn!) I realized I made a mistake earlier in implying that the bible said that Christ was born on the 25th.

I should have said...

Theologians, and Christian Dogma have stated for centuries that Christ was born on December 25th.

independent journal said:
EDIT - The Bible story of Christ's birth is in the Book of Luke the first 2 chapters... In case you needed a pointer...

well look at you... educating other Christians about their religion... thats always a way to keep free thought in any process. Force people to indoctrinate themselves with your beliefs much?






Coven out

P.s. JTMA580 i liked your post, and it validated what i was trying to say please don't take offense to my use of it!

Nahhh, no worries. None taken. Over the years I've read numerous well researched and carefully considered opinions on when Jesus was born. Alot of variables eneter into the equation becuase of liberties taken during the translations from the original scripts. Even the experts can't agree on the meaning of specific words. If they could there wouldn't be so many versions.

Originally posted by jtma508
Even the experts can't agree on the meaning of specific words. If they could there wouldn't be so many versions.

Exactly!!!!!

This is why the movie is so interesting, the producer is presenting a fairly valid argument to this fact. also if you have not watched the version linked in this forum then you have yet to see the final film.

I noticed earlier someone posted that the horus story was all wrong; I would love to know if they are talking about the story presented in the final film or the first cut ( the one in 12 parts).

Oh I like the religious debate. Could you expect anything else from the Zeigeist thread?

OP- thanks for posting this, I found it quite interesting.. not just the religious stuff, the federal reserve etc was very interesting. My family likes interesting things which make one go "hmm," so they enjoyed it as well.

I believe Jesus was a real guy. I could imagine him as a very vocal individual who thought of very advanced societal ideas (for his time). I'm not sure how that trainslates into "God," however there is a saying that goes:

"Anything is possible."

Great movie indeed.

Shame it's not being distributed officially.

But wise cause then the producer/director would probably be lynched by some guys in black

I think this film was a divisive film which brought in an unnescessary subject. Peace out.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by Colloneh7]

The best thing about the film was how the 3 seemingly unreated subjects were brought together.

It's very disappointing how childish the debates are becoming.
Jesus' birthday, indeed.

Finally watched it.

The first part I agree with some of the things it says about christianity and disagree with at the same time as well, so they got it half right.

First, Jesus was not borm on Dec. 25, they are right it is an ancient winter solitice date that got transfered from previous pagan beliefs like they said.

Second, the cross is an ancient symbol also pulled from pagan beliefs, again they are correct.

Third, Christianity began to really leave the true path from the council of Nicaea 325 AD, again they are correct.

Where they are so wrong, Jesus Christ did really exist, and as he predicted many of his followers would turn apostate, as too the true path, shown by their evil works, they prove what they really are. Actions show what a person really is and who's side they are on.

As to the rest of the movie, generally I believe it, it is part of the evil system, Big Commercial Business has thrust upon us in partnership with corrupt governments. This cannot end well, but it will end.
But not like many people think.

this movie just asserted what i already believed. Judging by most of the post on this topic it seems that it's right on point. Instead of trying to open out minds to how hoodwinked we are all i see are post arguing about when "Jesus" b-day was. i mean come on!!!! That was like two minutes of the whole hour and a half video. seems that we still can't release the chain of slavery.

Good movie and I'm forwarding it to everyone i know!!!!!

Consider the possibility that Jesus was carefully crafted for social control, just as Horus was before him. I'm sure the faithful Egyptians had their own "proof" of Horus' existence, just as faithful Christians do today.

What if the controllers have been doing this since before the time of the flood? They would've gotten pretty good at it by now. What if they also wrote the bible and prophesied within it what their plans are, with the full intention of their offspring fulfilling those plans (ie. the chip).

It's obvious that religion has been used for social control as long as civilization (as we know it) has existed. Just look at all the freethinkers emerging now... must be time for a new 'Saviour'. The age of Aquarius isn't too far off after all.

I enjoyed the film, and have even tried to share it with friends and family. Some of whom got very hostile and angry. Most scholars agree that Jesus existed, while stating that there is no evidence for such a belief! Hence, these scholars who believe in a "historical Jesus" do so without any reason or evidence whatsoever. Much of the past religions revolved around sun worship and that is why 12 is such a recurring number among religions as it represents the signs of the zodiac and the savior/sun travels trough them each year. So the sun with its 12 signs becomes the son with the 12 followers. In many ways Christianity evolved from paganism and sun worship.

Dang PontiacWarrior seems i got the same response when i forward the movie in an e-mail. One girl I knew said she got "dumber" from watching only five minutes of the video. She sounded mad in her tone of voice too. My girlfriend actually got really pissed at me and she is an atheist?!?!? Last time I try to share some information on such a touchy subject. I think next time I'm going to keep info/knowledge to my self.

these guys who made this documentary shouldn't have talked about religion because when christians watch this movie they will shut down there ears when they hear the begining and they will just ignore the rest of the movie like it wasnt real

religion = mind control to the highest degre

and dont even try to make fun of my spellings

zeitgeist

[edit on 23-8-2007 by dahl]

Great movie, I was amazed on how all of this was put together. It makes a lot of sense and also makes me question if man kind is really just put on this earth to be slaves.

Just think if there were people just like us that has existed for billions of years else where and found this planet to harvest life on. And set up a religious and monetary system for control.

I can see why people would be upset about this because everything they've ever been taught was a lie and it would be to hard to accept that their life might be very insignificant.

I guess everyone is going to have to accept their own reality. But you can't disregard the facts.

I am trying to find out how to buy the DVD before this gets methodically destroyed. Good find!

Thanks!