It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by neformore
The bitter resentment this will cause from the "normal" Iraqi population in the years to come will be long term and not good at all, because the root cause of all the death and destruction right now in Iraq lays squarely at the feet of the people who kicked it all off.
Originally posted by CSIfan
How dare anyone say that their job is to kill men who are defending their country from invasion, and that they're only doing their job. Real men fight eye to eye, cowards press buttons.
I have more respect for the passion of the guy who is not on salary (the freedom fighters).
Originally posted by PaddyInf
Done much eye to eye killing yourself have you?
[/quote[
I said real men FIGHT eye to eye. My ideal war is that where the two leaders square off and go for it, man to man. Solve the problem without too much bloodshed.
Paddy, I apologize if I posted brashly. I don't hate our military; every man in my family has served, all over the world. And every day I see vets always getting the "short stick", and for that I am enraged. But these vets come back from wars so messed up!
The insurgents do plenty of button pressing with their command detonated bombs.
But they're the bad guys, or are they? Didn't Cheney promise they would throw flowers at our soldiers? I guess they didn't much like guys coming over there to take over their country, you see, it's still their country, their oil may be gone, but their land is theirs.
You have a strange romantic vision of these people. Armchair commandoes tend to buy into this image.
"Romantic"? No, I just grieve for a people who have been invaded and murdered. If only the world were all armchair commandos; then there would be more discussion and no more war.
We gave them the chance of freedom on a plate and they just took it as an opportunity to squabble for power.
We, who is we? Are you talking about the major Oil Companies who have big deals going on over there, or the soldiers who were deployed? They may not be happy with the puppets we continue to install in their government, remember that we installed Saddam and looked the other way? Should the Iraqi people trust us this time?
Just remember that without the men and women who have fought all over the world while you sit on your @rse you wouldn't be enjoying the freedoms that you exercise every day in a democratic society.
Gung Ho! But, why are our guys fighting all over the world? Don't you see something strange about that? What kind of country is always "fighting all over the world"?...could that be why we are racking up long lists of enemies? Because I can only remember America being attacked once, at Pearl Harbor. Did I miss something?
Why we fight, constantly, all over the world, is truly a thought to ponder, for all of us Americans. Let's stop meddling. Of course, I know you don't make the decision to go to war, nor do I, so our opinions are just that.
Are our borders secure? Don't you feel kind of funny or suspicious that we're at war and our borders are wide open? I do.
Our soldiers come from us, our families, our communities...and even if we are victorious in war, we all lose something every time we invade and attack another country...some little part of our humanity changes...especially if they were no threat to us. Our communities must then absorb these angry men returning home and it's worse than ever this time...financially, everything in this country is changing rapidly...even the VA is gutting benefits.
Originally posted by CSIfan
Gung Ho! But, why are our guys fighting all over the world? Don't you see something strange about that? What kind of country is always "fighting all over the world"?...could that be why we are racking up long lists of enemies? Because I can only remember America being attacked once, at Pearl Harbor. Did I miss something?
Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:
(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
a) You attacked us in Palestine:
.....
(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.
(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;
(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!
(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:
(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.
(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.
(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.
(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.
(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.
Originally posted by PaddyInf
We gave them the chance of freedom on a plate and they just took it as an opportunity to squabble for power.
Originally posted by PaddyInf
How popular do you think the government will be if the middle east fall further into bedlam, driving up fuel prices?
Originally posted by CSIfan
Malachai,
We are seeing eye-to-eye on this topic, but I especially like the way you say the things you say, and your sources are right on the money.
I had to make a copy of the reasons why American citizens are at fault to show a friend!
To the OP:
Thank you for this topic, it gives us an opportunity to see our differences of opinion in a new light.
Originally posted by twitchy
IMO there are two types of terror, the real and the false.
Real terrorism springs from things like futility of a given cause, resistance movements and the like, while false terror tends to empower, or even justify a cause. I don't think that makes much sense now that I read it, but it seems to me that if I were going to say take hostages, I would have a reason, something I wanted to gain from it. Perhaps I would take such hostages as I had no other options, no military alternatives, no popular support, that sort of thing. Now if I take hostages and then leave a copy of the koran and some anti-western literature in the blood pools to get people riled up, then that's false flag operation. Google the term false flag sometime, it will humble you to learn some of the things done under the guise of terrorism.
Originally posted by neformore
OK. Lets take this a step further - the guy lives in Iraq. He's not a US citizen and Iraq is a sovereign nation at the time. Who gave you the right to drop the bombs on his country in the first place?
In this case - in the eyes of the ordinary Iraqi guy who was just looking after his family and had no interest in politics - the US started the cycle.
Of course, you are right about the perpetuation of it from that point onwards, but we're talking about perspectives here.