Freemasons and politics

Originally posted by Trinityman
The current "Grand Lodge" has simply adopted the name and history of the original Grand Lodge of York to lend itself some legitimacy.

I agree, the lack of continunity is clearly apparent and the very early connections conveniently can't be confirmed one way or another.

Originally posted by TrinitymanThere is not much information about the original GLoY on the net, but its probable dates of existence as a grand lodge are 1725 to 1741 and 1761 to 1792.

By this I presume it existed as something other than a "Grand Lodge" before that date? - do you have a rough estimate of its earliest origin? I am still intrigued by the cross-over with Freemasonry and the practices of the Knights Templar. That similarities exist in their rituals implies that, theoretically at least, Freemasonry existed in some capacity as early 1306 and possibly before then.

Thanks for your reply, I have been away enjoying the very wet British summer which is why I haven't replied sooner. All the best

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

By this I presume it existed as something other than a "Grand Lodge" before that date? - do you have a rough estimate of its earliest origin?

The oldest known Masonic document is called the Regius Manuscript, and is in the British Museum. It is dated circa 13th century, but itself speaks of a Masonic assembly in York, England in the 9th century (thus the "York Rite").

The first Grand Lodge was established in London in 1717.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
By this I presume it existed as something other than a "Grand Lodge" before that date? - do you have a rough estimate of its earliest origin? I am still intrigued by the cross-over with Freemasonry and the practices of the Knights Templar. That similarities exist in their rituals implies that, theoretically at least, Freemasonry existed in some capacity as early 1306 and possibly before then.

Records suggests that there has been a speculative masonic lodge in York since at least 1705, and in all likelihood for much longer. It is likely that it transitioned from operative to speculative some time during the 17th century, in common with other lodges around the country that we know of.

The founding of the first Grand Lodge in 1717 was never originally intended to be a national governing body - its founders envisaged it having a remit covering just the London area. However it was such a runaway success that the 'Old Lodge at York' decided to become a Grand Lodge too in 1725, although ultimately losing out to its rival.

The influence of the Templars on Freemasonry is a whole other topic, but one thing I am quite sure of is that masonic lodges in the 14th century were entirely operative. Others may disagree, but that is my view .

Thanks for your reply, I have been away enjoying the very wet British summer which is why I haven't replied sooner. All the best.

Hope you weren't holidaying in Tewkesbury!

[edit on 7/29/07 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by Trinityman
The influence of the Templars on Freemasonry is a whole other topic, but one thing I am quite sure of is that masonic lodges in the 14th century were entirely operative. Others may disagree, but that is my view

.

I'm going to avoid this one for a while until I have had time to brush up on the early history of freemasonry, but there is in my mind at least a point at which the operative masons absorded some of the rituals of Templars. I have certainly found some suggestion of this in York and Robert Lomas' has written an interesting essay that 'speculates' on the possible cross-over at Rosslyn.

www.robertlomas.com...

All very intriguing - but for the time being I think I will leave it there.

Originally posted by Trinityman
Hope you weren't holidaying in Tewkesbury!

Fortunately not - I didn't stray too far from home - Filey (oh the glamour), they had flash floods and landslides a couple of days before we arrived, it made a mess but not much of a ripple in the news - North-South divide? I think so....it rained the whole week but my little boy was the proverbial pig in muck!!! Totally off-topic....but there you go.

'til next time, all the best.

reply to post by Masonic Light


....of political and civil manipulation!

"Freemasonry, says the 'Keystone' of Philadelphia has no right to be popular. It is a secret society. It is for the few, not the many, for the select, not for the masses."
this quote grabbed my attention.im a postgrad art student researching advertising as a tool of suppression in society-As an artform related/appealing to base emotions.Its not a true art form that incresases creativity thus transeding the soul into a new spiritual freedom that so many strive for yet get confused by the lure of material possessions resulting in stunting ther mind evolution.symbolisms all around us.why has the increase in suppression,bombardment,and put bluntly-visual rape penetrated so deeply into the core of our society if the leaders want a peaceful society?Why hav the public been lead down a dark path of apathy? why are the masons keeping safe the great secrets which should be open to all,it makes no sense -you say nowts secret yet you are keeping the secrets safe-EH? from who? the whole human race needs to be alerted to a path of enlightenment..there are a hell of a lot of so called 'top people' in society in freemasonary and in positions of power.if you really gave a damn about the complete human mind and its connection with mother earth/the eternal, this suppressive artform would be toned down.some of us know the secrets without havin to be in some daft club and some of us know how to keep our heads while realising ther is a definate fight between good and evil.just because you try to justify yourselvs doesnt mean you aint capable of decieving,the media lies with a sickening regularity.some of us are in spiritual positions of knowledge and arent afraid of it.Society tells you its wrong to be connected to the spiritual-numbing drugs for 'the mentally ill' (which is a label i could adapt if i let society box me in like that,trying to make me afraid of my own mind)ive seen my fair share of other dimensional # and ive still got all my marbles.its interesting that the powers that be project that the mystical is hocus while a high proportion of them are in these secret societies including freemasonary.the above quote is arogant and says to those who can fully see the words that freemasonary is for the elite,we are all capable of elite status-not always through money,loss of empathy and power positions to be asked into the club,every human is special,just as every facet of nature is.those who often use base emotions and a lack of empathy often reach the top.im afraid to say the world although a paradise because to be alive is amazing and nature is beautiful is riddled with lies,non-democracy your in a democracy weirdness..uuummmm and freedom void,destruction of mother earth...the wrong people have been in control too long.And i have to say as a person who reads imagery as i create art i can plainly see that the checkered floor is a representation of the game of chess,it makes absolute sense in relation of heirachy of power in society.the checkered floor has a demonic quality a look into a dark dimension its demonic.simple to see,for those who can...ther is so much more i cud write in relation to the powers in control and the state of the world and history of the world but freemasonary should be scrapped just like all the other bull# clubs and snakes should come from ther rocks,actually try to feel emotions with the human race, emotions of pure love are crying out to be felt.last word-jnr numbskull bush on being told the twin towers were being attacked- his reaction was guilt ridden,his face spoke that he knew about this before it happened,and georgy is a club member..why was this even broadcast??We rent the earth ther are generations to come after us.the fight between good and evils on-just as its always been.naturally,humans need artistic & creative freedom & more people are leaving apathy and being awakend.if you poo hoo the above you may only get this if your high ranking as i feel most masons aint got a clue whats goin on at the top!

reply to post by Tamahu


please dont claim that blake was a freemason-he was working class he worked in a pub when he was ten i doubt he would have been aloud access to the mason club-hes one of the most famous outsiders.the classical art of the time was not in tune with blakes style.his art is ascension not ascension in the freemason style of art-please check out his version of ladder and then check out the freemason version of ladder-demonic ,simple as.where do you get your info from?

So who would join freemasonry blindly, would you join a club that won’t let you know anything about them, my question was presented to a mason “why should I join, what’s in it for me” the reply was – “we do favours in exchange for favours, this is common knowledge, usually favours are for cash “ .......................................?

reply to post by anonubis
ATS must love this !This is curious. Why would you reply to 7 different 2 year old posts? Whats your motivation? Do you have answers ?

reply to post by anonubis




[edit on 4/9/10 by scooterstrats]