Zeitgeist: Part One

"The Greatest Story Ever Told"
Alright I'd like to hear the counter arguments to this thing. I've heard alot of it all before, but never in such a streamlined presentation.

Google Video Link

The main arguments are:
-Jesus = astrotheological Sun God like the rest of them.
-Cross = cross of the zodiac
-30 years old began ministry + died at 33 = prosession of the ages
-12 apostles = 12 constallations of the zodiac
-Judeo-Chistrian beliefs are 95% plagerized from Egyptian mythology.
-Jesus birth and life story is the same as that of Horus
-Death and resurrection in 3 days represents the suns movement at the end of the year wher it floats for 3 days before rising back in the other direction; December 25th.
-Siruis is the Star in the East, and the 3 stars next to it represent the 3 Magi Kings. These line up with the sun during the Winter Solstice.
-Jesus = Pisces, the fish god; The "Age" we are in today.
And so on.

This is a simplified listing. Please do watch it before responding.

It's Astrotheology. Well explained. I know some of the past messiah citiations can be refuted as grasping at straws, but he didn't really focus much on those, and the context I was saying isn't really presented here. I can refute some of the similarties that people normally cite to say "hey look he was a copycat", but when it's applied in a astrolgical context I run out of arguments. I'd like to hear what others say.



[edit on 24-6-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Hehe, that's funny, it seems story about Jesus' life is just a copy from Old Testament:

Hi IgnoranceIsntBlisss,

Thank you for posting this video. I too am very familiar with much of the information contained in the video and other info that was not mentioned in the video. I did, however, learn a few new things. I am quite sure that for some this video will incite some strong negative feelings, or outright denial of what it contains.

I started researching Christianity a while ago, when I found that many of my questions could not be answered by either leaders of various denominational churches or those who have studied the bible for years. So I went searching for my own answers and in doing so, found out much of what was relayed in the video. Since I went searching for the truth, I found it and then some.

I have now progressed beyond "official" recorded history into the realms of what some call "forbidden history". It is really delving into the realms of possibilities and new discoveries, and is wrought with contradictions and controversy. Yet I am not deterred at all by that.

As far a religion goes, I have found that it is a tool that can help some people, yet enslave others. For some, it is not the truth that matters, but instead the feelings that are evoked by the words and traditions in the ways that they are presented. They give a sense of purpose, meaning and camaraderie to many people. For others, religions serve to inspire hate, intolerance, fear, and many other negative emotions, that for some, also inspire them to commit various negative acts against those who dont "belong".

Yet I would not strive to "take" anyone’s religion away from them by telling them the "truth". For one thing, I do not know the whole truth. (I doubt that any one person does.) And I also believe that to force this knowledge on someone who did not ask for it, would be akin to forcing your religion or set of beliefs on someone who did not ask for that sort of enlightenment. (For me it is sort of like what the missionaries did to so many Indigenous peoples. Well, without the torture, cultural destruction, and splitting up of families anyway. )


I think that all religions have a shred of truth in them, and that there is not one religion that is "better" than the other. For me, I have found much freedom and happiness in being a spiritual person. My belief set is a cacophony of ever changing and evolving ideas, that are perfect for me and no one else. Even though I might encounter people with similar beliefs.

For those who have questions and are really seeking the answer to their questions, they will find them and then some! Even if they dont like the answers that they find. For those who are truly seeking, just google any of the information given in the video. Much of it can be verified, yet there will be some controversial elements also.

EDIT to add that there is another thread here on ATS that deals with the ZEITGEIST movie in its entirety. It can be found here

[edit on 6/25/2007 by sylvrshadow]

What does "zeitgeist" have to do with all this?

Care to explain your title's mention of it and its relevance to what you are saying, IgnoranceIsntBlisss?

The use of it is contrived and warped from its true meaning.
Same goes for the movie that misused the term.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by sb2012
Hehe, that's funny, it seems story about Jesus' life is just a copy from Old Testament:

Yeah, those details about Joseph and Jesus are sort of similar. Too bad that NOTHING ELSE correlates Jesus to Joseph or Horus. Look at the main picture instead of the little details, people.

You can't go around connecting 2 completely different people with vague, minute details that have no significance to who the people actually were or what they actually did.

Yea well, problem is SAME story is repeating dozens of times thorough history. His words surely are a nice guidance for confused people, but maybe he was not even real. Does it matter? Maybe not because people believe in the story. Lately less and less people and church is going downhill too.

I just watched all 3 parts of the movie and what an eye opener.

Just fantastic movie. Definitely made me think.

Part 2 & 3 are

flagging this one

click for definition

I have watched this twice now, first time alone, second time to show it to my wife. If I said I was unaffected by this movie, I would be a bigger liar than Bush is! This is the best hour and fifty four minutes I have spent in front of a computer monitor EVER!!!

My favorite quote in the movie is the one stated by Jimi Hendrix.

Other than above, I'm not going to jump forward until we have the part 3 thread...Did anyone start that yet???

In short, I was absolutely blown away by this whole thing, mouth agape throughout thinking "Oh my God, what a tangled web THEY weave..."

One thing that puzzles me is how could they have gotten away with such allegid gross plagiarism of the Egyptian Mysteries, being so close in time and location, without becoming the laughing stock of the inter-continental region?

this video is amazing.....
course my wife don't want to watch it with me

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
"The Greatest Story Ever Told"
Alright I'd like to hear the counter arguments to this thing.

-Jesus = astrotheological Sun God like the rest of them.

Not a real good match, there. Sun gods usually have barges or chariots or some vehicle that they're associated with that carries them across the sky. No religion has just a sun god and nothing else... if the sun's a god, then so is the moon. No monotheistic religion weakens its god by saying that the god is the god of only one thing.

-Cross = cross of the zodiac

That section made me want to find the writer and kick him. I was an astrologer and what he came up with was pure nonsense.

-30 years old began ministry + died at 33 = prosession of the ages

No age is ever given for Jesus in the Bible. Earliest birth date is about 8 BC and earliest death date is about 26AD -- latest birth and death dates are 6 AD and 37 AD, meaning he could be as young as 20 or as old as 45.

-12 apostles = 12 constallations of the zodiac

Very very weak. No real astrological associations, either with the traditional objects associated with the saints or their personalities.

-Judeo-Chistrian beliefs are 95% plagerized from Egyptian mythology.

Only if the Judaeo Christians believed in:
* multiple gods
* that the only way to get into "heaven" was to be a good and honorable person... belief in a particular god/gods wasn't necessary
* the secular ruler of the land is a god
* homosexual acts by god/gods were okay
* that the god had wives/wife and lovers
* that the soul is composed of multiple parts
* that gods married their siblings
* that the chief god could give birth to other gods (not angels, gods equal in power)
* that the dead had an afterlife only as long as their body wasn't destroyed
* that you could pray offerings for the dead and they'd receive gifts in the afterlife.
* that you sacrificed animals to the gods

-Jesus birth and life story is the same as that of Horus

You mean that Jesus' mother was married to his father and was in fact his father's sister, that Jesus' father was killed by his evil uncle, that Jesus' widowed mother went to live in a swamp and hid out with her sister, that Jesus was hatched as an egg and flew into the sky when he was born, that his evil uncle spent a lot of time trying to kill him, that Jesus had his eye torn out in a last battle with his evil uncle, that Jesus had homosexual relationship with his uncle and his uncle became pregnant by Jesus, and that Jesus never died but rides in his father's sun barge across the sky and helps defeat the evil serpent each night (although his father's Great Cat creation is actually the one that defeats the evil serpent of the underworld every night)??

..because that's the story of Horus, as told in papyrii and temples and the Book of the Underworld and the Book of the Dead.

I'm pretty well read on the Bible and I think I would have remembered the egg bit and the never dying bit and the homosexual relationships bit, too.

-Death and resurrection in 3 days represents the suns movement at the end of the year wher it floats for 3 days before rising back in the other direction; December 25th.

In a word, no.

The winter solstice is about December 21... and it doesn't float. All sorts of ancient civilizations had sun calendars that marked the date. December 25 was, however, Mithras' birthdate.

-Siruis is the Star in the East, and the 3 stars next to it represent the 3 Magi Kings. These line up with the sun during the Winter Solstice.

Notice, please, that various astronomical sites show us that Sirius is in the winter nighttime sky as is Orion... and they can't possibly line up with the sun then (and they're actually not on the ecliptic.)
www.northern-stars.com...

-Jesus = Pisces, the fish god;

He can't be a sun god and a fish god. Besides, depending on what you're going by, the Age of Aquarius started in 1978 or so. (this section was just... awful.)

I know I sound critical (I'm not being nearly as harsh and picky as I could), but if you'd look up the references you'd see just what a mess the thing is. As a "mockumentary" it would be okay (sort of) ... spreading disinformation in the name of a fun good time.

But as a piece of Great Truth? No.

OK, Byrd, you're back on my good side now. Didn't read your whole post but at least you made some good points on what I *did* read.

Originally posted by Seekerof
What does "zeitgeist" have to do with all this?

Care to explain your title's mention of it and its relevance to what you are saying, IgnoranceIsntBlisss?

I can't speak for the filmaker, but "zeitgeist" is supposed to mean the spirit of the age. I gather that he likens it to the "myth of the age", and that in the old days Christianity was the primary myth of the age, and nowadays it still exists but that the 9/11 'myth' has replaced it as far as the across the board accepted myth.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by Seekerof
What does "zeitgeist" have to do with all this?

Care to explain your title's mention of it and its relevance to what you are saying, IgnoranceIsntBlisss?

I can't speak for the filmaker, but "zeitgeist" is supposed to mean the spirit of the age. I gather that he likens it to the "myth of the age", and that in the old days Christianity was the primary myth of the age, and nowadays it still exists but that the 9/11 'myth' has replaced it as far as the across the board accepted myth.

...just more poorly thought-out nonsense like the rest of the movie.

Some other points of the Horus legends that weren't mentioned:

Osiris and Isis were both gods (which would have meant that Joseph and Mary were both gods). Osiris died and his body was cut into nine pieces. Isis went searching for them and found all except his sexual organs, which were eaten by a fish.

No, I'm not making that up!

Isis then makes him a wooden phallus and brings him back to life with magic she learned from her father, Ra.

Jesus was a real (maybe) person. He said alot of nice things and did a few other things which were recorded many many years after his death. Then the Roman Empire decided to make a religion out of it and only a minor amount of Jesus-related materials from all the cristain cults was used. Several ideas of the day were tied to Jesus such as the birthdate of December 25th, being the birthdate of most of the current gods in Rome at the time.

This means that many of the stories, stories, about Jesus could be borrowed from a wide range of ideas floating around in the cults at the time. And some other parts of the stories may be actual accounts of Jesus' life on Earth. These are mixed together with a fair amount of analogy and symbolism and then poorly translated and retranslated until today we have a shadow of the original ideas, with almost no idea to what it all meant.

Jesus himself was well read in the Hebrew scripture and prohpecy. He knew what people were expecting in the Messiah, and he acted it out. One example is riding into town on a donkey which he did on purpose and not coincidentally. Riding on a donkey is a sign of being humble, used by the Egyptians whose king was called "the most humble." The Kings of Egypt lived in mud brick houses, the same as the poorest people in Egypt, to show how humble they were. Scenes in Egypt of a person mounted ontop of 2 donkeys represents being in control of your ego.

Why is Egpyt important? Well besides the themes including annointing, donkeys and holy arks, they have some interesting stories, stories, having to do with the universe as they saw it. And if you believe everything you read, then you believe that Moses was raised as Egyptian royalty and if that's the case he knew the most secret religious teachings of the Egyptian royal and priestly classes.

So if Jesus was a real person, he knew everything about the Hebrew religious ideas, which all came from Moses who in turn learned it in Egypt. The Egyptians may have gotten their ideas from India or Mesopotamia (the Falcon Clan (Horus?) Osirus' body did float to Syria showing a connection to the people there..). The point being that it's highly probable that at least some of these ancient ideas made it into the most recent religion at the time. They had a religious leader, Jesus, some stories of him doing nice things for people, now they needed the esoteric teachings. The best example of Intelligent Design to ancient peoples was the mathematically ordered world in which they lived; which included cycles of seasons, equinoxes, and the most hidden realization that the zodiac moves backwards in a precession entering a new house of the zodiac about every 2100 years. These were proofs that God existed. In addition to these was geometry which came from astronomy and earth study. These became esoteric secrets in cults and religions which were passed down among only the most highly initiated. The symbols of this knowledge were hidden 'in-plain-sight' inorder to preserve and pass it down. Obviously you cant write it down for people to use in 2,000 years. What language will they be speaking in 2,000 years? Whatever language it is, they will still understand geometry and archytypical symbols.

So don't let the STORIES bother you. Jesus catches a miraculous 153 fish, not because he was using awsome fish bait, but because 153 is part of the ratio called the "measure of the fish." The fish being the "fish bladder" or vesica pisces shape. 265:153 is the ratio in the vesica shape formed by two circles drawn from a common radii. Sacred Geometry. Otherwise there would be absolutely no reason for this story to be in the bible. Not only are the numbers important but here in this example the number has to do with the story of fish, being the measure of the fish. If #153 showed up in a tale about Jesus skipping a stone 153 times, it would be less significant. Other numbers relate to human gestation, the cycles of the sun and moon, days, months, season and ages.

Just because the Roman Empire did not use 100% of an already 3,000 year old (at least) story does not mean that the similarities are unfounded. Most of the Egyptian stories, and they did believe they were only stories, have to do with the sacred numbers of creation. The "eye of horus" is actually a compilation of symbols for fractions, together in they eye they equal 63/64ths, just off of perfection. Ausar/Osiris was cut into 14 peices for the 14 days of the waning moon. They had a trinity of father/mother/son 3/4/5 triangle, and a grand ennead. And ennead is a group of 9, like the christian trinity is a group of 3. The egyptians did not have a problem with god having multiple aspects (neteru). No one here thinks the trinity represents a polytheistic veiw of 3 gods, and we all accept Satan as being so powerful he cannot be destroyed only contained; and a whole host of choirs of angels and saints and none of this means christians are polytheistic. But the Egyptians have an equal or even fewer religious icons and somehow we assume they are polytheistic.

Jesus is associated with the Sun in the Age of Pisces whether you like it or not. He probably did not think about this while he was alive (if he indeed was a real person), but the various cults at the time did think about this stuff. They got it from the greeks who got it from the Egyptians. Then when the religion was made and the stories written, they incorporated the knowledge of the day, hidden of course, lest the uninitiated figure it out.

"The Egpytian priests are supreme in the science of the sky... (they) impart some of their precepts; although they conceal the greater part. (The Egyptians) revealed to the Greeks the secrets of the full year, whom the latter ignored as with many other things..." Strabo 64BC-25AD

The Egyptian priests were sworn to secrecy and could only reveal their hidden knowledge through parable. This is why Atlantis, a story of the North American ice sheet melting and flooding the known world, turned into a continent that attacked the known world and sank into the ocean. And the Greeks apparently did not think the precession was as cool as the Egyptians. It did however make it into Greek cults such as that of Mithras. Which coincedentally enough was centered at the site of the present day Vatican.

"It is my pleasure to yeild to the inspired frenzy, it is my pleasure to taunt mortal men with the candid acknowledgment that I am stealing the golden vessels of the Egyptians to build a tabernacle to my God from them, far, far away from the boundaries of Egypt." Johannes Kepler 1571-1630AD - "discovered" planetary laws.

I just watched the whole movie the other night. Blown away is an understatement. It gave me answers to two hard questions. What happened at the Pentagon, and where was the plane in Shanksville.

But Bankers? Cmon now.... Who hasnt brought the towers down?

Just watched it. Blown away.


If you can't believe that bankers have the power then I just don't even know what to say to you.

Time for some education.

Jesus was not born of Dec. 25 th. This change was brought about by the Romans in the 4th century.

These are the same Romans that did everything they could to stop the truth of the Messiah. That is exactly why there are few historical writings of Jesus. Both the Jews and Romans were against this movement of truth.
In fact, the Vatican is the very place where the Christians were martyred. And Josephus account has not been proven a fraud...that's bull.

The story of Horus is not the story of Jesus. The story of Horus is the story of Tammuz of Babylon. This story spread all over the world prior to the coming of the Messiah. Nimrod of Babylon dies and becomes the sun. Semiramis his wife/mother becomes pregnant by a ray of the sun and brings forth a savior....Tammuz. Same story.....Zeus has a mortal son Hercules.

Ask yourself this question
WHY ARE THE CHRISTIANS BEING BROUGHT INTO THIS FILM OF THE TOWERS?

Yes the towers were brought down. Were they brought down by the Christians? No, they were brought down by those in power who rule the world. The very ones that are setting up the New World Order as spoken of in the Bible.

Some of you need to wake up as to who Lucifer the bringer of light is.
Look up the Washington monument. It is the same thing as an Egyptian obelisk. It represents a ray of the sun. In truth it represents the phallus of Lucifer.....the sun, the bringer of light the false god that Nimrod is said to become at his death.

I also notice they cut loose with the GD. Wonder why.

You can find a critical review of Part I of "Zeitgeist" here:

www.preventingtruthdecay.org...